I don't care that they are turning it around. YOUK AND SALTY SUCK

[NZSox]

Does anyone else think that the Youkilis haters on here were probably also Paul Pierce haters at the start of the C's season?

[jung]

Youk is going down pretty easily these days especially to the slider from RH pitchers and his RH/LH splits have been changing gradually over the years from a hitter that was equally dangerous facing LH or RH pitchers to a hitter that on a progressive basis has really been struggling against RH pitchers and has continued at about what has become his usual pace against LH pitchers. This is not that rare. Baseball players do not age or change serially.

 

The biggest concern about Youk is that he appears really vulnerable to being set up by RH pitchers for low, outer edge pitches and does not appear to be able to see that slider from RH pitchers at all. If he was meat for a slider throughout his career, we would have seen that long ago. He has SO 20 times in 61 AB and has had 5 BB in 65 PA. 16 of the SO have come against RH pitchers.

 

Not sure what his future is going to be. It is not like he can go into remedial slider training and not sure what he can do to recover whatever it is that he has lost. The fact is his LH/RH splits have been undergoing progressive change for the past few seasons not just this season. This is so much the case that in his younger days there were actually some instances when he had more success against RH pitchers than LH pitchers. That is long in the past now with this year so far, really telling as he is not even making contact with RH pitchers.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why are we trying to trade Doubront again?? Especially after a scout just likened him to Pettitte?

 

Doubront is an extremely cheap, cost controlled middle to back of the rotation starter who is going to give you a quality start more often than not when he begins to learn how to be efficient with his pitches.

 

He's still a young kid and has a lot of upside. Keeping a guy like and Bard in the rotation allows this team to spend money elsewhere and still have a very solid rotation. Go out and spend money on the bullpen, but don't trade Doubie.

 

EDIT: damn I hate typing from an iPhone.

[VA Sox Fan]

Why are we trying to trade Doubrot again?? Especially after a scout just like Ed him to Pettitte?

 

Doubront is an extremely cheap, cost controlled middle to back of the rotation starter who is going to give you a quality start more often than not when he begins to learn how to be efficient with his pitches.

 

He's still a young kid and has a lot of upside. Keeping a guy like and Bard in the rotation allows this team to spend money elsewhere and still have a very solid rotation. Go out and spend money on the bullpen, but don't trade Doubie.

 

I have no idea. And not giving Youk more time doesn't make sense to me.

[iortiz]

At this point I prefer Doubront over Buch.

 

We need to wait, but The question is if Buch will be the 2010 Buch again.

[SoxFanForsyth]

At this point I prefer Doubront over Buch.

 

We need to wait, but The question is if Buch will be the 2010 Buch again.

 

Buchs average velocity in 2010 was around 94. He is sitting around 92 this year, but I think he is hesitant to really let go early on because of his back last year. I think he will come along just fine. It's only been 4 starts. I'm concerned too, but I have to remind myself that he's a little rusty after not throwing since last June, and it will take a few starts to get back into the swing of things. I think we will start to see some progression very soon, likely in his next start against Oak.

[jung]

I also think Buch will be fine. I just don't think we can have the kinds of expectations for him that we had a few years ago. I am just hopefully he can be a solid contributor at some level in this rotation. However I no longer see him progressing up the ladder to something like a 2 or maybe even a 1. He may even get passed as a 3. Lets face it, he will have to pick it up to be a solid 3. I don't see his upside any longer as something beyond that. I for one did have hope at one time.

 

In the first place Buch did not put on weight unintentionally. He put on weight because he wanted to do so, thinking it would help him. That has apparently been identified as one of the issues that is tied to his back problem so that appears to be an idea that is permanently out. So I for one will be happy with a bit of improvement and/or steady performance at some level.

[Dojji]

Why are we trying to trade Doubront again??

 

No freaking idea. Lefties who can do what this kid has done so far don't grow on trees.

[jung]

Honestly, I just do not think they could package anything with Doubront that gets them back what he is worth in keeping him.

 

No way I would be looking to trade him. Why so somebody else can almost immediately get the benefit of all the time put into developing him.

[BornToRun]

If we ever traded doubront it better be as part of a package for a bonafide number 1 cy young type ace. Only why I'd think about it right now.

[KCBRUIN]

Youk in a package for King Felix.

[mvp 78]

Youk in a package for King Felix.

 

You'd have to use Middlebrooks in a package for Felix. SEA doesn't want/need Youk.

[KCBRUIN]

If he wouldn't be a significant upgrade at either 1st or 3rd I'd agree with you.

[User Name]

If he wouldn't be a significant upgrade at either 1st or 3rd I'd agree with you.

 

Except he wouldn't be. They have Justin Smoak at first, who has massive potential and will be given every opportunity to develop. And at third, Youkilis is not very good defensively and would be going to a park that completely neutralizes righty power, and they have great organizational depth at third.

 

Youkilis has very little value for the Mariners.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Except he wouldn't be. They have Justin Smoak at first, who has massive potential and will be given every opportunity to develop. And at third, Youkilis is not very good defensively and would be going to a park that completely neutralizes righty power, and they have great organizational depth at third.

 

Youkilis has very little value for the Mariners.

 

Youk has zero value to any non contending team. And for the contending teams?

 

Rays: Longo

Yanks: ARod

Rangers: Beltre

Angels: Trumbo

Tigers: Cabrera

 

Phillies could use him, but they don't have much to offer in return that they would actually give up.

 

Braves have Chipper, they don't need another injury prone 3B.

 

Brewers have Aramis Ramirez.

Cardinals have Freese, who is going to be a beast and I think that's the player that Middlebrooks should be compared to.

 

Giants have Panda. DBacks have Roberts, not playing well now but not sure Youk would provide enough of an upgrade to warrant a trade.

 

The only team you can try to trade Youk to is someone like the ChiSox who may think they are a bat away from being in contention right now with the way their pitching has performed, and then you get a guy like Thornton in return and throw the ChiSox 3-4mm.

[KCBRUIN]

Except he wouldn't be. They have Justin Smoak at first, who has massive potential and will be given every opportunity to develop. And at third, Youkilis is not very good defensively and would be going to a park that completely neutralizes righty power, and they have great organizational depth at third.

 

Youkilis has very little value for the Mariners.

 

He may have massive potential, if you say so, but he isn't near as good as Youk is right now. It's not even close. He hit .218 in a 100 games and .234 in a 123 games. I understand he's young, but Youk never hit that low, and I'm not expecting him to anytime soon. Youk is better in every category and I don't expect that to change this season or next. If hitting .230 is what Seattle needs to win then they're all shored up I guess.

[Dojji]

That would make sense if the Mariners were in any kind of short term mindframe. They're not. They're using Ichiro's last few gasps to draw fans while they build over the very long term. Potential matters more to the Mariners than current production right now.

[KCBRUIN]

Well they've finished dead last in their division 6 out of the last 10 seasons, and haven't made the playoffs since 2001 so I guess they're looking at the extreme long term.

[NativeBostonian]

Someone need to get off Youk's dick. I know I have made fun of his bad start, but I know he is going to turn it around. To chase him out of town is stupid. Don't you remember when Ortiz was going through a slump like this? Everyone wanted to chase him out of town. Look what he is doing now, laser show take two. Salty is another story though. That guy have never lived up to his potential.

[Dojji]

.879 OPS so far this year for Salty.

 

Considering that about this time last year he was still putting up sucktastic numbers, I'll take it.

 

Tek didn't really get it until he turned 27 either.

[VA Sox Fan]

.879 OPS so far this year for Salty.

 

Considering that about this time last year he was still putting up sucktastic numbers, I'll take it.

 

Tek didn't really get it until he turned 27 either.

 

Good points! I'm not ready to give up on Salty either.

[jung]

I do think Salty should continue to swing for the fences with less than two strikes. He has power and it does not make much sense to do otherwise. Doubt he will ever hit for average and would be a road block on the base paths.

[BornToRun]

Good points! I'm not ready to give up on Salty either.

 

Salty doesn't seem all that different from varitek to me. I still have hope that he can turn into a valuable fixture on this team.

[VA Sox Fan]

Salty doesn't seem all that different from varitek to me. I still have hope that he can turn into a valuable fixture on this team.

 

Me too. Definitely think Shoppach will always catch for Beckett and he's not a bad back up catcher at thie point.

[BornToRun]

Me too. Definitely think Shoppach will always catch for Beckett and he's not a bad back up catcher at thie point.

 

My idea is to wait or for david to leave or retire and out lavarnway in at dh. This lineup could use some righty thump and I hear his defense isn't that great either.

[Dojji]

I don't think Salty's as smart as Tek. In the same vein though, he's a better hitter.

[BornToRun]

I don't think Salty's as smart as Tek. In the same vein though' date=' he's a better hitter.[/quote']

 

I like the idea of bringing Jason on as a coach. He'd be a huge help to both the pitchers and catchers.

[jung]

My idea is to wait or for david to leave or retire and out lavarnway in at dh. This lineup could use some righty thump and I hear his defense isn't that great either.

 

Which is why he is still in Pawtucket trying to hone his catching skills. Once that happens, presuming it does, I don't think you will see him at DH. If they were not working to do that chances are he is Salty's defensive equal now.

[Dojji]

When Youk starts hitting' date=' they should move him for the best starting pitcher they can get and bring up Middlebrooks. Package Youk and Doubront.[/quote']

 

Why are we getting rid of Doubront for a SP?

 

Try it the sane way: Bundle Youk off a good late inning reliever and keep Doubront.

 

I actually really like the upside of our rotation right now if we leave Bard in it. If he can avoid dead-arm and Buchholz actually becomes a pitcher at any point, we could have a good year. So build up the bullpen so we don't need to worry about moving him.

[VA Sox Fan]

Why are we getting rid of Doubront for a SP?

 

Try it the sane way: Bundle Youk off a good late inning reliever and keep Doubront.

 

I actually really like the upside of our rotation right now if we leave Bard in it. If he can avoid dead-arm and Buchholz actually becomes a pitcher at any point, we could have a good year. So build up the bullpen so we don't need to worry about moving him.

 

I love it that are starting rotation has 4 home grown guys.