I liked Bard tonight.

[Station 13]

I think as he learn the starting role, he can't always be throwing a fastball once he gets 2 strike on hitters. he's going to have to change their eyes level. And he definitely need to back the hitters off throwing inside more. They were too comfortable up there last night.

 

But holy s*** Bard's slider is straight from hell. It's nasty. He throws 2 different slider. A low 80s that more like a curve and the mid 80s to RHH that's unfair.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Considering the Jays put 17 balls in play against the Bard, and of those balls in play, 8 went for hits (.471 BABIP), I'd say that he was pretty damn unlucky.

 

11 of those 17 balls in play were ground balls, too.

 

Those numbers will normalize. Like Bard says, if those numbers are normal, he gives up 2 ER and is pitching into the 7th.

 

He threw well. Just was on the bad side of luck. I mean that swing by Adam Lind in the 1st? Are you kidding me??? Please. What a bitch hit.

[User Name]

I'm not seeing anything about BV complaining about mixing up pitches. I'm seeing several quotes about him being happy with the performance.

 

Was the body language your only indication of them wanting to mix up pitches more?

 

Not meant as an insult, but where i come from they call that "Flat out making s*** up".

[Elktonnick]

I'm not seeing anything about BV complaining about mixing up pitches. I'm seeing several quotes about him being happy with the performance.

 

Was the body language your only indication of them wanting to mix up pitches more?

 

Did you see the game? It was clear what McClure and BV were talking about . Jerry and Don made referrence to him not throwing any changeups. The Jays were sitting on his fastball. He pitched inthe first three innings like a reliever not a starter. He throw only two pitches fastball and slider. If he continues to do that the hitters will adjust and he'll get clobbered.

[mvp 78]

Are you professionally trained in body language reading? Otherwise, there should be some BV quotes to back up your claim.

 

Yes, I saw the game. Unfortunately, my body language reading skills are rusty.

[Elktonnick]

Are you professionally trained in body language reading? Otherwise, there should be some BV quotes to back up your claim.

 

Yes, I saw the game. Unfortunately, my body language reading skills are rusty.

 

Actually one didn't have be a body language expert to notice that McClure was throwing up his hands in disgust and reading the irritation on his face. And yes I have an advanced degree in that arena and have more than a dozen MSWs LCSW-Cs level clinicians plus several psychologists and on my staff of 170 in the organization I head, if you must know.

[ORS]

Did you see the game? It was clear what McClure and BV were talking about . Jerry and Don made referrence to him not throwing any changeups. The Jays were sitting on his fastball. He pitched inthe first three innings like a reliever not a starter. He throw only two pitches fastball and slider. If he continues to do that the hitters will adjust and he'll get clobbered.

He threw 3 change ups in innings 1-3, according to pitchf/x which categorizes pitches by velocity/spin/movement. He threw 12 all game, 9 in innings 4-6. So, yes, he did mix it up more later on. My question is, how do we know that wasn't by design? You often hear about pitchers not giving hitters a look at everything the first time through the order, and bringing in more variety later in the game. That common pitching tactic is widely accepted and could easily explain why we saw the distribution we did, and, if the types of balls in play he allowed are fielded at the normal rate, he doesn't have a line that suggests this strategy won't work for him.

 

And, for all we know, the "body language" you were reading and subsequent mound visit could just as easily have been about recognizing that the strategy wasn't working due to the poor luck on groundballs, and McClure went out to tell him it was time to adjust the approach and check his mental state to make sure he wasn't freaking out over the results.

 

In the end, until someone comes out and says what was on their mind, we don't know what they were thinking. So let's stop trying to pretend that we do. Fair enough?

[Elktonnick]

He threw 3 change ups in innings 1-3, according to pitchf/x which categorizes pitches by velocity/spin/movement. He threw 12 all game, 9 in innings 4-6. So, yes, he did mix it up more later on. My question is, how do we know that wasn't by design? You often hear about pitchers not giving hitters a look at everything the first time through the order, and bringing in more variety later in the game. That common pitching tactic is widely accepted and could easily explain why we saw the distribution we did, and, if the types of balls in play he allowed are fielded at the normal rate, he doesn't have a line that suggests this strategy won't work for him.

 

And, for all we know, the "body language" you were reading and subsequent mound visit could just as easily have been about recognizing that the strategy wasn't working due to the poor luck on groundballs, and McClure went out to tell him it was time to adjust the approach and check his mental state to make sure he wasn't freaking out over the results.

 

In the end, until someone comes out and says what was on their mind, we don't know what they were thinking. So let's stop trying to pretend that we do. Fair enough?

 

I watched the entire game I don't care what pitch fx says he didn't throw a changeup until pitch fifty. Remy concurred. It was obvious that McClure was upset that Bard wasn't mixing his pitches that why we went out to mound. It was obvious that McClure was irritated when he went out to the mound and Bard knew it. There was no discussion. It was here is what you need to do. After that Bard began to mix his pitches better and threw more changeups. I know what I saw. Watch the game you might actually see something.

[a700hitter]

Here's something I got from watching Bard's starts in Spring Training. Even in his good outings, he'd have an inning where he'd just blow up. He'd lose the plate and his command. After his last Spring start, he said it was the first time that he felt like a starter and not like a reliever pitching multiple innings. I took from his performances and that statement that he had trouble maintaining focus for longer than a couple of innings. I was talking about this focus issue with a friend of mine yesterday. If you watched the game yesterday on NESN, Bard mentioned the focus issue as a challenge. The good news is that yesterday he made a lot of progress in that he looked more focused than in any of his spring starts and he threw strikes all night long. He still gave up 5 runs, but I think this was a significant step forward.

[Elktonnick]

Here's something I got from watching Bard's starts in Spring Training. Even in his good outings' date=' he'd have an inning where he'd just blow up. He'd lose the plate and his command. After his last Spring start, he said it was the first time that he felt like a starter and not like a reliever pitching multiple innings. I took from his performances and that statement that he had trouble maintaining focus for longer than a couple of innings. I was talking about this focus issue with a friend of mine yesterday. If you watched the game yesterday on NESN, Bard mentioned the focus issue as a challenge. The good news is that yesterday he made a lot of progress in that he looked more focused than in any of his spring starts and he threw strikes all night long. He still gave up 5 runs, but I think this was a significant step forward.[/quote']

 

I happen to agree with that and said so in my original post ie his performance was encouraging. What was very encouraging was the 4th and 5th innings. He mixed it up and got through the order a second and third time.One would expect a pitcher with a reliever's mentality to try and blow hitters away the first time through the order. IMO that was what Bard tried to do last night. But one can't do that second or third time through the order. So for me the important innings were 4 and beyond. Bard did especially well in those innings

[redsoxfan3]

Here is a conversation between me and a guy from my macroeconomics class.

 

Guy in my class: Did you watch the game last night?

 

Me: Yes.

 

Guy in my class: We sucked last night. Bard is not a starter. He should go back to the pen.

 

(Note that I am getting agitated because this guy is a total joke of a Red Sox fan.)

 

Me: Bard didn't suck last night. It was his first ever major league start. He pitched decent for his first start. He did struggle a little, but he looked better than the stats indicate.

 

Guy in my class: I still think he should be moved to the bullpen. We cannot afford to lose anymore games with him in the rotation. HE SUCKS!

 

Me: That is your opinion. He will get better as a starter.

 

Guy in my class: We need to start Cook over Bard. Cook gave up no runs in his first start this year. Bard gave up a lot of runs.

 

Me: You do realize that Cook pitched in a AAA game and gave up no runs, right? That is not really relevant when you compare him to Bard. I do agree that Cook might be a decent starter in the majors, but Bard has a lot more potential as a starter.

 

Guy in my class: It doesn't really matter what league he gave up no runs in. He still pitched well and deserves to start over Bard.

 

(Note that I am starting to get pissed talking to this guy who is very ignorant.)

 

Me: You are joking, right? It does matter what league he pitched in. There is a reason why he is in AAA. Bard will be fine as a starter once he gets more experience. Cook is not a bad backup option. He is there for insurance just in case we have an injury.

 

Guy in my class: Cook pitched better than all of our starters in his first game. He gave up no runs. Every other starter gave up a run. I think we should try to trade Beckett and Buchholz for real starters. Cook is the best option we have. He might even do better than Lester this year.

 

Me: Is this a joke?

 

Guy in my class: No. I am being serious. I am tired of losing and we need to trade some players to win some gmes.

 

Me: I really don't have anything else to say to you in regard to the Red Sox. We will be fine. The five starters we have now are better options than Cook.

 

Guy in my class: Are you f***ing kidding me? Do you even watch the games?

 

Me: Yes. I watch every game that I can. Do you watch the games?

 

Guy in my class: No. I don't usually. I just look for the stats at the end of the night.

 

(I just sit there and don't say another word to him the rest of the class. He still tried to talk to me.)

 

I love talking baseball with people. Even if the other person is not even really into baseball. This guy is one of the dumber fans I have talked to. There have been other conversations with this guy worse than this one. I can tolerate a lot, but this guy just gets on my nerves.

 

/end rant

[kapsis21]

^^ he does have a point

[MANNYHOF24]

I love ESPN's headline "Bard Lit up as Jays beat Red Sox"...

 

I don't know, I would hardly say Bard was lit up last night.

[BornToRun]

I love ESPN's headline "Bard Lit up as Jays beat Red Sox"...

 

I don't know, I would hardly say Bard was lit up last night.

 

A more interesting headline would be "Stats show that only mentally retarded trust espn"

[Station 13]

I love ESPN's headline "Bard Lit up as Jays beat Red Sox"...

 

I don't know, I would hardly say Bard was lit up last night.

 

Did Justin Thomas made that headline?

[ORS]

I watched the entire game I don't care what pitch fx says he didn't throw a changeup until pitch fifty. Remy concurred. It was obvious that McClure was upset that Bard wasn't mixing his pitches that why we went out to mound. It was obvious that McClure was irritated when he went out to the mound and Bard knew it. There was no discussion. It was here is what you need to do. After that Bard began to mix his pitches better and threw more changeups. I know what I saw. Watch the game you might actually see something.

No, there is what you saw, and then there is what you think happened in what you saw. The conservation you "saw" occurred in your head only.

[Elktonnick]

No' date=' there is what you saw, and then there is what you think happened in what you saw. The conservation you "saw" occurred in your head only.[/quote']

 

Did you watch the game?

[a700hitter]

No' date=' there is what you saw, and then there is what you think happened in what you saw. The conservation you "saw" occurred in your head only.[/quote']And the reason you are challenging his opinion on this is so the rest of us stupid asses will realize that it does not arise to the level of a fact?:dunno: Why are you bothering to argue about another poster's interpretation of body language? Bill O'Reilly has a body language segment on his show, and the expert blathers on about certain gestures etc. Even the pugnacious O'Reilly doesn't argue this much about her opinion which is usually directed at world leaders far more important than our manager and pitching coach.:dunno: Enough already.

[Elktonnick]

And the reason you are challenging his opinion on this is so the rest of us stupid asses will realize that it does not arise to the level of a fact?:dunno: Why are you bothering to argue about another poster's interpretation of body language? Bill O'Reilly has a body language segment on his show' date=' and the expert blathers on about certain gestures etc. Even the pugnacious O'Reilly doesn't argue this much about her opinion which is usually directed at world leaders far more important than our manager and pitching coach.:dunno: Enough already.[/quote']

 

Yes I find it incredible that they get so worked up of one person's opinion and interpetation of events.

[mvp 78]

I can't speak for others, but I never get worked up on here. It's a conversation, nothing more, nothing less. If everyone always agreed on here it'd be pretty boring.

[a700hitter]

I can't speak for others' date=' but I never get worked up on here. It's a conversation, nothing more, nothing less. If everyone always agreed on here it'd be pretty boring.[/quote']The game today was boring enough.

[ORS]

And the reason you are challenging his opinion on this is so the rest of us stupid asses will realize that it does not arise to the level of a fact?:dunno: Why are you bothering to argue about another poster's interpretation of body language? Bill O'Reilly has a body language segment on his show' date=' and the expert blathers on about certain gestures etc. Even the pugnacious O'Reilly doesn't argue this much about her opinion which is usually directed at world leaders far more important than our manager and pitching coach.:dunno: Enough already.[/quote']

And you think arguing with me about how argumenative I'm being somehow helps the situation that you find overly argumentative? There's a disconnect between what you want and how you act.

 

I'm fine with leaving it at his opinion. Ie, "I think Bard needs to mix it up more". Leave it at that. I take issue with reading the tea leaves to find confirmation from the coaching staff. If you don't know what the coach said, you can't put him on your side. That's it.

[Elktonnick]

And you think arguing with me about how argumenative I'm being somehow helps the situation that you find overly argumentative? There's a disconnect between what you want and how you act.

 

I'm fine with leaving at his opinion. Ie, "I think Bard needs to mix it up more". Leave it at that. I take issue with reading the tea leaves to find confirmation from the coaching staff. If you don't know what the coach said, you can't put him on your side. That's it.

 

You never answered the question did you actually see the game?

[ORS]

Yes I find it incredible that they get so worked up of one person's opinion and interpetation of events.

What's more incredible, to me, is how often people assign an irrational, or a "worked up", mentality to those that disagree with them. Perhaps they just disagree and wish to share their disagreement.

[ORS]

You never answered the question did you actually see the game?

No, I didn't watch the game, but I can promise you this, if I had and you asked me what I thought the pitching coach said, I'd say, "I don't know".

[Elktonnick]

What's more incredible' date=' to me, is how often people assign an irrational, or a "worked up", mentality to those that disagree with them. Perhaps they just disagree and wish to share their disagreement.[/quote']

 

Now I am curious! Judging by the fact you have not answered the question one can presume that you may not have actually seen the game. You did actually see the game on NESN, didn't you?

[pedroias laser]

Personally Bard should be in the Pen, It's not about last night believe me he did alot better then Lackey

did all season. I truly believe Cook with the way he has pitched will be up by the end of the month

and Bard back in the pen just my opinion though.

[Elktonnick]

No' date=' I didn't watch the game, but I can promise you this, if I had and you asked me what I thought the pitching coach said, I'd say, "I don't know".[/quote']

 

Since you didn't even see the game how the hell are you in position to me that I didn't see or couldn't tell what was obvious that McClure was upset over Bard's pitch selection. Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Now I am pissed!

[pedroias laser]

Since you didn't even see the game how the hell are you in position to me that I didn't see or couldn't tell what was obvious that McClure was upset over Bard's pitch selection. Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Now I am pissed!

 

Good for you i wouldn't stand for it haha go have a beer on me.:thumbsup:

[Elktonnick]

Good for you i wouldn't stand for it haha go have a beer on me.:thumbsup:

 

Thanks you I deeply appreciate that!