Official 2012 Keep your shit together thread

[BornToRun]

Okay, so we got rocked 3 straight games when it was imperative we get off to a fast start. Two of our best starters got destroyed and our bullpen choked the big one. Even I am not going to deny how s***** things look right now but we have to keep cool. This is the f***ing red sox were talking about here. Compared to last years start, this is nothing. Last year, the rotation was garbage, the pen was awful, and we couldnt get a hit with risp if we gave a bj and begged for it. But we came out of it. The pitchers who were getting lit up began to pitch better, the pen became a strength, and the offense knocked down buildings with its might, regardless of how the year ended, we came out of it. We know what this team is capable of, we have 159 games to get this s*** going in the right direction. We need to calm down and think positive, does anyone honestly think we're this bad? The red sox will be fine, of that I have no doubt. We just gotta pull together as a fanbase and keep clear heads. I fully believe that this team will be fighting for a world series championship come October. Is anybody else on board with me?

[RedSoxNC84]

Of course. For better or worse, I don't care what this team does, it's my team. Bottom line.

[The Celtbot]

Think he will hit this year and our rotation should be good, but the bullpen still will suck balls all year. Unless Bowden and a couple other minor leaguers become pleasant surprises, I think we are screwed.

[FredLynn]

Think he will hit this year and our rotation should be good' date=' but the bullpen still will suck balls all year. Unless Bowden and a couple other minor leaguers become pleasant surprises, I think we are screwed.[/quote']

 

Right on the mark.

[example1]

Right on the mark.

 

Nah. They just nearly won two games against Detroit, in Detroit. Their bullpen is a problem, but the whole team shouldn't be maligned after game 3 for the blown-saves of Aceves and Melacon and a s***** starting performance from Beckett and Buchholz. Let's give it some time.

 

On the positive side, Ortiz looks dialed in, which was pretty essential early in the year if there was going to be any success.

[FredLynn]

Nah. They just nearly won two games against Detroit, in Detroit. Their bullpen is a problem, but the whole team shouldn't be maligned after game 3 for the blown-saves of Aceves and Melacon and a s***** starting performance from Beckett and Buchholz. Let's give it some time.

 

On the positive side, Ortiz looks dialed in, which was pretty essential early in the year if there was going to be any success.

 

Not denying that there are a lot of positives from this series: Lester, Morales, Gonzo, Pedey..and so forth. CB will get better, and Beckett will get better IF he is not hurt, as I suspect he is.

As you said, the pen is a problem. I don't know how you can really compete for the playoffs with a pen that is as bad as ours is. Also, Bard and Doubront are unknown entities as SP. They could excel; they could stink. It will be interesting to see how they do in TO.

[onlybereaved]

I feel you, BornToRun.

 

Win and Lose with your team, bro. We are obviously going to have both great and terrible times/streaks.

 

0-3 really sucks right now, and we have much to be concerned about with this year's team. But like you said, we have time to right the ship and potentially do that in a big way. This start could possibly be a 'good' thing if it serves as a wake-up call to our team and forces guys to get to their A-games immediately and to remain there.

 

It's funny when you think of it...Some fans (most likely all of us on here) probably get more upset over losses than the players/management do. After all, they make the big bucks and live the life...That doesn't apply to everyone, but I am sure it's true to an extent.

 

Either way, let's hope that we can look back at how we felt after the 0-3, and laugh once we are in a clinched playoffs spot feeling confident and looking sharp.

[wyo-sox]

It is three games..... we will lose more. Figuring out our bullpen will be tough lessons learned by our coaches, but they will get it figured out. While the two blown saves in one game suck.... Padillia looked great and Morales looked great. I think Morales could be a good closer. The important thing is to go through it now, not the end of the year. Last years World Champion Cardinals remind me not to panic.

[The Celtbot]

Anybody else think that Bard should be the closer, I'm not trying to overreact, but we look hopeless with Aceves and Melancon.

[onlybereaved]

Anybody else think that Bard should be the closer' date=' I'm not trying to overreact, but we look hopeless with Aceves and Melancon.[/quote']

 

A good % of folks on here think that Bard should be our closer, especially at least be our closer until Bailey returns.

 

It's one thing for management to commit to giving Bard a chance as a starter prior to having a crisis in the current BP that does not include Bard...but right now after the Detroit series, I think that the hands of fate are saying Bard is a/our future closer...Get him in that mindset immediately!

 

Melancon has proven in Houston that he CAN be a closer, so I will give him a break in his first couple shots at it with us...Even in that role though, he isn't seemingly as good as I think Bard will/would be. Aceves DOES NOT strike me as someone who will ever be a good closer, he doesn't have the stuff, he doesn't look the part, it's not working...leave him MRP where he has shown he can be eat innings and be successful in that role.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is three games..... we will lose more. Figuring out our bullpen will be tough lessons learned by our coaches' date=' but they will get it figured out. While the two blown saves in one game suck.... Padillia looked great and Morales looked great. I think Morales could be a good closer. The important thing is to go through it now, not the end of the year. Last years World Champion Cardinals remind me not to panic.[/quote']

 

Morales was a closer for a short while in Colorado. His lack of consistent command makes him a tough choice to close

[SoxSport]

Cheer up. The Yankees just lost their first 3, too. Somebody tell the media.

 

 

The Globe poll, by the way, has about 80% who think Bard should be the closer.

 

As soon as Bailey went down, Bard should have become the closer. That tells you something about the Red Sox management.

 

If you are going to make the closer important, you better have your best closing.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees lost 3 in a row, but are expected to be a playoff team and really had no major internal drama in the offseason, for once. The sox were a highly publicized team in the spring due to unpredictability and the rifts in the media with Schilling and Francona spouting s***. Their first series did nothing to dispel that. The media is eating it up. This is Boston, it's a city all about over-reaction

[TheRightKost]

No reason to panic after getting swept on the road, to the team that is expected to win the AL Central.

 

That being said, our bullpen needs some serious work. I don't know why they are keeping Bard in the rotation, when it's blatantly clear that he would be the only person in the bullpen that you can bring in to strike someone out. Scoring 12 runs in a game is great... unless you give up 13.

[Elktonnick]

While the pen is the obvious immediate concern, the rotation is in no great shape either. Beckett may have physical issues but he also has mental ones as well. He simply can't pitch unless he feels everything is just right and he is 100% comfortable. Let's face it he is a "high maintenence" guy. Buchholtz had that "deer in the headlights" look. He is another one who simply is unable to recover from the slightest setback early in an outing.

Everyone said for this team to do well the top three starters; Lester, Beckett, and Buchholtz had to have monster years. After three games, it doesn't take a genuis to say "Houston we got problems"

[kapsis21]

Okay' date=' so we got rocked 3 straight games when it was imperative we get off to a fast start. Two of our best starters got destroyed and our bullpen choked the big one. Even I am not going to deny how s***** things look right now but we have to keep cool. This is the f***ing red sox were talking about here. Compared to last years start, this is nothing. Last year, the rotation was garbage, the pen was awful, and we couldnt get a hit with risp if we gave a bj and begged for it. But we came out of it. The pitchers who were getting lit up began to pitch better, the pen became a strength, and the offense knocked down buildings with its might, regardless of how the year ended, we came out of it. We know what this team is capable of, we have 159 games to get this s*** going in the right direction. We need to calm down and think positive, does anyone honestly think we're this bad? The red sox will be fine, of that I have no doubt. We just gotta pull together as a fanbase and keep clear heads. I fully believe that this team will be fighting for a world series championship come October. Is anybody else on board with me?[/quote']

 

you are spot on. we were in line to easily take 2 out of 3 if the bullpen didnt implode. i know our bullpen sucks right now but it will take some tweaking either from Bobby V once he decides Aceves is not closer material but suits perfectly in the bullpen. lets get Mike Gonzalez for crying out loud.

[Dojji]

I almost hope we fall out this year. It's time the Red Sox fanbase had a good long chance to rediscover their roots and shed some pink hat dead weight.

 

Hint: If you're overreacting to 3 bad games in April, in which we were right there in 2 of them, you're who I'm talking about. Sit down, relax, have a drink if you need to, and learn how not to take the regular season to heart. Some of you guys need to bite the bullet and step away from the game entirely for about 2 weeks, or go follow a perennial loser for awhile to remember what it's like. Just hope it's not us.

 

Point is, d on't start playing the first round of the playoffs on April 9th. It'll be better for your heart.

 

Personally I think the team needs to cool off and stop trying to force a winner. THe pieces are simply not there right now to be a major contender. All that desperation spending, all that "we'll worry about it later," well, it's time to worry about it, so if you can't be satisfied with being a wild card team, then it's time to break things up, let some contracts expire, and spend a few years building from within rather than trading useful players for band-aids.

[onlybereaved]

I almost hope we fall out this year. It's time the Red Sox fanbase had a good long chance to rediscover their roots and shed some pink hat dead weight.

 

Hint: If you're overreacting to 3 bad games in April, in which we were right there in 2 of them, you're who I'm talking about. Sit down, relax, have a drink if you need to, and learn how not to take the regular season to heart. Some of you guys need to bite the bullet and step away from the game entirely for about 2 weeks, or go follow a perennial loser for awhile to remember what it's like. Just hope it's not us.

 

Point is, d on't start playing the first round of the playoffs on April 9th. It'll be better for your heart.

 

Personally I think the team needs to cool off and stop trying to force a winner. THe pieces are simply not there right now to be a major contender. All that desperation spending, all that "we'll worry about it later," well, it's time to worry about it, so if you can't be satisfied with being a wild card team, then it's time to break things up, let some contracts expire, and spend a few years building from within rather than trading useful players for band-aids.

 

On one hand, I see what you're saying (I think...) - On the other hand, it seems a bit arrogant of you to suggest that anyone who didn't shrug-off the opening sweep as if it is just business as usual and nothing a fan could be concerned about, is a newb-fan who needs to find a new team blah blah. Get over yourself imho regarding your position of being able to say something like that.

 

Plenty of fans who hold "fan-cred weight" over you would disagree. You're entitled to your opinion, but easy on generalizing as if you are the decider of how a "legit" fan can react to a loss/multiple losses/team performance regardless of whether that be in April, later in the season.

 

Seriously.

 

Also, you may want to be considerate of the fact that the people reacting this way that you have a problem with, could expect a better performance out of the current roster without anything to do with trades/whether or not this is a wild-card/rebuilding year.

 

No offense, but yeah.

 

Edit to add..."I almost hope we fall out this year..." to rid the team of as many fans who aren't on your 'level' is SO stupid considering even if that did work, The Red Sox 'fell out' for a s***** ass reason/theory, and once they rebuilt or got back on a level of being awesome those fair weather fans return....making that whole theory useless

 

In fairness to your post/thoughts, Pedey just made a good point in the media that if the Red Sox win the next 10 and are 10-3, people will say "wow, what a great start we have gotten off to" etc. But some fans live and die on every play, and relax in retrospect...it's just how some people are built/wired. Last year during the time of the rough start (first say 13 games), fans were upset/concerned just like now. Then, when we hit a hot streak, they were able to look back and in retrospect think a bit differently and be more considerate of how baseball seasons can just be series of hot/cold win/loss streaks and to just not be so reactionary on a game/a few games.

 

Collapse aside, some people have been waiting for baseball season and following the Sox spring training and being so excited, that they can't help but react in the moment. That doesn't mean they should be cast off as some pink hat new fan who needs a lesson from the great Dojji.

[ibot2much]

I almost hope we fall out this year. It's time the Red Sox fanbase had a good long chance to rediscover their roots and shed some pink hat dead weight.

 

Why? Will it make the team play better, win more games if the "pink hats" leave?

 

Everybody has an opinion and celebrates wins / mourns losses in their own way and it is ALL OK. Way too much think and speak as I think/speak on this board or get called out for a varying opinion. It has improved with some posters going but some people still use the board to make themselves feel important and superior:rolleyes:

[User Name]

Personally I think the team needs to cool off and stop trying to force a winner. THe pieces are simply not there right now to be a major contender. All that desperation spending, all that "we'll worry about it later," well, it's time to worry about it, so if you can't be satisfied with being a wild card team, then it's time to break things up, let some contracts expire, and spend a few years building from within rather than trading useful players for band-aids.

 

Asinine. The adjustment can be made on the fly while still fielding a good team.

[Dojji]

Ehh. For a few years at a time it can. Maybe up to a decade if you play your cards right. You have to have a high batting average with acquisitions or tolerate an infinitely bloated payroll to get the job done indefinitely. Sounds to me like neither is true on Yawkey Way these days.

 

It doesn't take much attrition to the core to end the juggling act. Matsuzaka not panning out was the first slip in a long, slow downward spiral and the FO is overreacting again and again trying to maintain the illusion.

[User Name]

Ehh. For a few years at a time it can. Maybe up to a decade if you play your cards right. You have to have a high batting average with acquisitions or tolerate an infinitely bloated payroll to get the job done indefinitely. Sounds to me like neither is true on Yawkey Way these days.

 

It doesn't take much attrition to the core to end the juggling act. Matsuzaka not panning out was the first slip in a long, slow downward spiral and the FO is overreacting again and again trying to maintain the illusion.

 

Wasn't this off-season the definition of calculated planning instead of overreaction spending?

Don't they have a bunch of money coming off the books from several aging veterans that will likely be replaced with cheap, in-house but viable options?

 

Your thought process and the reality of what's happening to the Red Sox are mutually exclusive.

[NativeBostonian]

I'm not too concern about this start. Yeah, I would have liked to start off above 500 so we can put last year's nightmare behind us. But, we didn't and that's fine. I say that because I did like some of what I watched the past three days.

 

To start off, Lester looked really good in his start, but the offense didn't show until late into the game. Then, we all know what happened in the ninth inning of that one. Although, we all assumed it would be good based on last year's number, our offense looks like they can put up some point. Actually, IMO they might do better this year. The reasoning behind my thought is because of the bench speed that we picked up in the winter. We now have an good balance between power and speed (something Detroit doesn't have). Also, IMO we could have easily be 2-1 right now. All that needs to happen for us to make the playoffs is for the pitching to just do well enough that our 7+ runs don't go to waste because they give up double that.

[ORS]

Wasn't this off-season the definition of calculated planning instead of overreaction spending?

Don't they have a bunch of money coming off the books from several aging veterans that will likely be replaced with cheap, in-house but viable options?

 

Your thought process and the reality of what's happening to the Red Sox are mutually exclusive.

This is a good point.

 

Some of what Dojji is trying to say has a ring of truth in it. They won't be able to maintain a budget and be competitive indefinitely, for exactly the reason he states, some costly mistakes will impact personnel decisions.

 

Where he's way off is in what he's calling for now. "Blow it up", won't ever apply to this team, not with the resources they have. It will be more like, "Go with what we've got, and hope for the best", which is what we are seeing now, and will most likely mean a team that could be competitive if things break right, which is exactly what they have with the 2012 team.

 

If, in a month or so, what they've got looks like it's a piece or two away from a decent postseason run, I think they'll add to it.

[a700hitter]

@ the high school kid lecturing people about how to be fans.

[The Boomer]

This is a good point.

 

Some of what Dojji is trying to say has a ring of truth in it. They won't be able to maintain a budget and be competitive indefinitely, for exactly the reason he states, some costly mistakes will impact personnel decisions.

 

Where he's way off is in what he's calling for now. "Blow it up", won't ever apply to this team, not with the resources they have. It will be more like, "Go with what we've got, and hope for the best", which is what we are seeing now, and will most likely mean a team that could be competitive if things break right, which is exactly what they have with the 2012 team.

 

If, in a month or so, what they've got looks like it's a piece or two away from a decent postseason run, I think they'll add to it.

 

People said that about the Cubs too, and look where they are. I don't think it's that serious or necessary at this time, but if we are struggling at the deadline there could definitely be a fire sale to free up capacity for next season.

[User Name]

This is a good point.

 

Some of what Dojji is trying to say has a ring of truth in it. They won't be able to maintain a budget and be competitive indefinitely, for exactly the reason he states, some costly mistakes will impact personnel decisions.

 

Where he's way off is in what he's calling for now. "Blow it up", won't ever apply to this team, not with the resources they have. It will be more like, "Go with what we've got, and hope for the best", which is what we are seeing now, and will most likely mean a team that could be competitive if things break right, which is exactly what they have with the 2012 team.

 

If, in a month or so, what they've got looks like it's a piece or two away from a decent postseason run, I think they'll add to it.

 

Larry Lucchino agrees with you:

 

Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said on Friday the team would be willing to add to the payroll to improve the pitching staff.

 

In an appearance on MLB Network Radio, Lucchino said the team would be over the luxury tax threshold regardless.

 

“I don’t think there’s any question about that. We’ve been above the threshold the last couple of years,’’ he said.

 

“Our goal is to field a team with more homegrown players, fewer free agents, and to have a more manageable payroll down the road. But if you’re asking about this year, we understand that each year has to be taken on its own and this year our payroll is going to be, I’d hate to make a guess, but it’ll be well over the $178 million dollar threshold.’’

 

People said that about the Cubs too' date=' and look where they are. I don't think it's that serious or necessary at this time, but if we are struggling at the deadline there could definitely be a fire sale to free up capacity for next season.[/quote']

 

The situations are not comparable, and this doesn't make sense for the Red Sox because not only is their main core young and relatively cheap, but they have several veterans coming off the books after the season that will be replaced with minimum salary talent, giving them enough money to spend on needs without having to have a firesale of any kind.

 

This just doesn't make any sense , and i don't know how you would come to this conclusion.

[The Boomer]

Larry Lucchino agrees with you:

 

 

 

 

 

The situations are not comparable, and this doesn't make sense for the Red Sox because not only is their main core young and relatively cheap, but they have several veterans coming off the books after the season that will be replaced with minimum salary talent, giving them enough money to spend on needs without having to have a firesale of any kind.

 

This just doesn't make any sense , and i don't know how you would come to this conclusion.

 

I don't exactly see why the situations aren't comparable. They are not the same, but they are similar in that both teams have a lot of money invested in high priced talent that may or may not deliver. The Cubs were probably worse off, but not that much worse.

 

I only see 4 players meaningfully coming off the books next year: Papi, Youk, Dice, Jenks. Youk has an option. If none of them come back, then that's $43 million in capacity. However, I don't see a lot of cheap talent to step in and replace that production right away, plus we may need more than a DH and 3B during the off-season. So the team may choose to replenish the farm at the ASB this year by trading some players with value for prospects.

 

It makes a lot of sense if you're not going to make the playoffs in 2012 to trade away a Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, etc. if you can get top prospects back.

[ipot]

Not to worry, I dug this up:

 

Approved unanimously by the Owners' Committee during the Winter Meetings of 2011-12.

 

MLB, Rule 74, Section 3(a):

In the calculation of the final winning percentage of any team during the regular season, the first three (3) games shall count 'less' than the final three (3) games of the season. Upon the completion of Game #162 of any team's schedule, Games #1, #2, #3 will be stricken from calculating the final winning percentage and a team's final record will be calculated based on a 159 game total, beginning with Game #4 of the season. The application of this rule will supersede all playoff seedings based o the 162 game schedule.

 

So, all is good. These 3 losses will be stricken from the record on October 1.

 

I always wondered why they didn't put this rule into effect last year; we would have made the playoffs....

[User Name]

I don't exactly see why the situations aren't comparable. They are not the same' date=' but they are similar in that both teams have a lot of money invested in high priced talent that may or may not deliver. The Cubs were probably worse off, but not that much worse. [/quote']

 

Really?

 

The Cubs were a horribly run team with a s***** core and awful farm system that had absolutely no chance to compete. In their worst year, the Red Sox need an epic collapse like last year's to miss the playoffs. It's not even close.

 

I only see 4 players meaningfully coming off the books next year: Papi, Youk, Dice, Jenks. Youk has an option. If none of them come back, then that's $43 million in capacity. However, I don't see a lot of cheap talent to step in and replace that production right away, plus we may need more than a DH and 3B during the off-season. So the team may choose to replenish the farm at the ASB this year by trading some players with value for prospects.

 

Which player on the Red Sox do you think they would be willing to trade that has significant value to other teams? Also, the farm doesn't need to be "replenished", it needs to be given time to churn out its current talent.

 

If all four of those guys go, there are in-house options to replace all of them (Jenks and Dice-K are already being replaced by in-house options) and that money would be enough to cover raises and spend on pitching.

 

It makes a lot of sense if you're not going to make the playoffs in 2012 to trade away a Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, etc. if you can get top prospects back.

 

Actually no, it really doesn't. Those guys need to be kept around as this team's core. You would sabotage the very plan you present by trading young, cost-controlled talent.