Doubront named 4th starter

[jung]

Can somebody fill me in on the sequence of events?

 

Some posts have sounded like V initially only announced Doubront as the 4. If that did in fact happen was it V that ultimately announced Bard as the 5 or did somebody from the FO make the Bard announcement?

 

Then I heard on today's game telecast that Doubront announced himself as the 4 before V said anything about anybody. Maybe that is what happened with V announcing both Doubront and Bard at the same time.

[User Name]

Valentine announced it. It's in the MLB.com website.

[SCM33]

3.57 ERA as a whole is very good. September was not discounted.

 

It was actually 3.67.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/year/2011/split/128

 

Middle of the pack. Right now, they are worse than that when look at who theyve added and subtracted from the bullpen.

 

Middle of the pack is not very good. Its average.

[BornToRun]

I thought you said they were horrible last year though? That's strange.

[User Name]

4th in the AL, which is their league. Not middle of the pack, but rather top-5, which is great.

[BornToRun]

Oh don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, username.

[SCM33]

I thought you said they were horrible last year though? That's strange.

 

I thought you said they were very good? Thats strange, were both wrong.

 

4th in the AL' date=' which is their league. Not middle of the pack, but rather top-5, which is great.[/quote']

 

Cherry picking.

[mvp 78]

 

Cherry picking.

 

Glad you recognized your cherry picking a stat was weak.

[User Name]

 

 

 

Cherry picking.

 

Not cherry picking at all, but rather context-correct. You just can't admit you're wrong.

 

We all know the NL is a softer league than the AL, and a lot of the teams ahead of the Sox are NL teams that play in big parks.

 

The Red Sox' relief corps 86 tOPS+ indicates they were very much above MLB average, and that's a neutral statistic.

[BornToRun]

I thought you said they were very good? Thats strange, were both wrong.

 

 

 

Cherry picking.

 

4th in the al is very good. Prior to September where the whole team fell apart, they were great and they still ranked at the top of the league after september

[SCM33]

Ok, well......if I am wrong thats fine, somehow the original point is lost......and that point is that the bullpen for this year, is a completely different bullpen.

 

Its kinda funny, Papelbon leaves and everyone talks about how he wasn't worth the money and that we will replace him and blah blah blah....but then some of those same people point back to how great the bullpen was last year, when Papelbon was the anchor of it.

[VA Sox Fan]

Not cherry picking at all, but rather context-correct. You just can't admit you're wrong.

 

We all know the NL is a softer league than the AL, and a lot of the teams ahead of the Sox are NL teams that play in big parks.

 

The Red Sox' relief corps 86 tOPS+ indicates they were very much above MLB average, and that's a neutral statistic.

 

4th in the al is very good. Prior to September where the whole team fell apart' date=' they were great and they still ranked at the top of the league after september[/quote']

 

Would you guys Cut It Out with you cherry picking stats etc?

[User Name]

Aceves pitched the most innings out of anyone in that bullpen.

 

The point is, that with the returning cast, Melancon (who hasn't looked good) and Bailey (who has a minor thumb injury, call the ICU unit) don't have to be lights-out to keep the bullpen respectable.

 

Also, i bet you would have complained if they kept Papelbon at that money if he reverted to 2010 form. It's just a lose-lose proposition.

[VA Sox Fan]

Ok, well......if I am wrong thats fine, somehow the original point is lost......and that point is that the bullpen for this year, is a completely different bullpen.

 

Its kinda funny, Papelbon leaves and everyone talks about how he wasn't worth the money and that we will replace him and blah blah blah....but then some of those same people point back to how great the bullpen was last year, when Papelbon was the anchor of it.

 

It's obvious that the bullpen is weaker without Paps let alone Bard. But you said the bullpen sucked last year.

 

Who knows how the BP will be this season. I'm cautiously optimistic. Big shock there.

[mvp 78]

Ok, well......if I am wrong thats fine, somehow the original point is lost......and that point is that the bullpen for this year, is a completely different bullpen.

 

Its kinda funny, Papelbon leaves and everyone talks about how he wasn't worth the money and that we will replace him and blah blah blah....but then some of those same people point back to how great the bullpen was last year, when Papelbon was the anchor of it.

 

I liked Morales down the stretch last year. Aceves was the pitching staff's MVP. If Melancon can be decent, most of the issues go away. Padilla is good for 1-2 innings. Cook can be fine as a long reliever. Bailey will probably play more when the games count. Atchison/Albers/Bowden/Tazawa are meh. Who else is there? Remember, Reyes was in the BP at the start of 2011.

[BornToRun]

It's obvious that the bullpen is weaker without Paps let alone Bard. But you said the bullpen sucked last year.

 

Who knows how the BP will be this season. I'm cautiously optimistic. Big shock there.

 

Melancons been an effective reliever during his career, Aceves is Jesus in a sweat soaked cap, bailey is a good young cheap closer who has an injury that could very well be a minor one, Albers was good until the tail end last year, and I could see us movig Dan back to the pen at some point. If we can get innings out of the starters and not have to have someone trotting out by the 6th inning, I think the pen will be just fine. Don't look now but the 2012 red sox don't look so awful if you view things rationally.

[a700hitter]

Ok, well......if I am wrong thats fine, somehow the original point is lost......and that point is that the bullpen for this year, is a completely different bullpen.

 

Its kinda funny, Papelbon leaves and everyone talks about how he wasn't worth the money and that we will replace him and blah blah blah....but then some of those same people point back to how great the bullpen was last year, when Papelbon was the anchor of it.

I think they are arguing out of both sides of their mouth on this one. I don't know what they gain in the discussion by establishing that last year's pen wasn't bad when the two biggest cogs from that pen are no longer in the pen. It certainly doesn't help the Papelbon isn't worth the money argument, especially when we pay a slug like Lackey even more than Papelbon gets. I wonder how the 2011 pen's stats look without Bard and Papelbon.

[mvp 78]

So overpay for Paps because you overpaid for Lackey? That's a horrible way to run a business.

[User Name]

So overpay for Paps because you overpaid for Lackey? That's a horrible way to run a business.

 

Because f*** logic, that's why.

[BornToRun]

So overpay for Paps because you overpaid for Lackey? That's a horrible way to run a business.

 

I would've been all in favor of bringing Jon back but he was asking a too high price and his numbers weren't what they used to be. Injury problems noted, we still got a cheap young closer who's proven his worth at the big league level.

[jung]

Well both right and wrong if you want to look at that way. The pen did do a very good job until they just plain got worn down to nothing. I would grant you that without the incredible work of Aceves the total stats might well have gone to hell or at least been worse. Have no idea how he survived it.

 

I think if you want to take the glass half full approach, if that pen had not been worked to death, by all accounts it would have been very good. If you want to take the glass half empty approach, the numbers are the numbers and maybe they should have done better in the face of adversity.

 

I happen to think that as a group they acquitted themselves well with Aceves really standing out.

[VA Sox Fan]

I would've been all in favor of bringing Jon back but he was asking a too high price and his numbers weren't what they used to be. Injury problems noted' date=' we still got a cheap young closer who's proven his worth at the big league level.[/quote']

 

I thinks Paps will shine in the NL.

[SCM33]

I thinks Paps will shine in the NL.

 

Its not even going to be a fair comparison to the production were going to get out of closer. He will be in the 40 save range with a low 2 ERA.

[BornToRun]

I thinks Paps will shine in the NL.

 

Im sure he will but it's a different league, whatever he does in Philly I think the numbers wouldn't translate back in boston.

[mvp 78]

Its not even going to be a fair comparison to the production were going to get out of closer. He will be in the 40 save range with a low 2 ERA.

 

He's had 40 saves once and hasn't been in the low 2's since 09, when he choked against the Angels. He's not the pitcher he used to be.

[VA Sox Fan]

Im sure he will but it's a different league' date=' whatever he does in Philly I think the numbers wouldn't translate back in boston.[/quote']

 

That was my point. It's the NL. I wish him well and will always love how much he did for the Red Sox.

[BornToRun]

That was my point. It's the NL. I wish him well and will always love how much he did for the Red Sox.

 

As will I. I think it's good how we were able to let him walk and get a solid replacement for a fraction of the cost.

[a700hitter]

As will I. I think it's good how we were able to let him walk and get a solid replacement for a fraction of the cost.

On opening day, we will not have a closer.

[VA Sox Fan]

As will I. I think it's good how we were able to let him walk and get a solid replacement for a fraction of the cost.

 

Of course, unless the replacement's thumb falls off. Or gets a case of temporary batshittery (as you tell, I truly enjoyed and LOL's at your use of that one!)

[BornToRun]

On opening day' date=' we will not have a closer.[/quote']

 

Well good thing that opening day doesn't count for the whole season