Fenway now on the National Register of Historic Places

[Emmz]

No, you're actually the only one piling on. You have a nasty habit of reading one persons thoughts, and then regurgitating them as a pile-on.

 

I make absolutes as much as everyone. You want me to start calling you out on every absolute statement? Too bad, because I'm going to start taking cheap shots at you in every thread you post in, and show you exactly what I mean.

 

You make dumb arguments, and I think everyone agrees with me. Dude, YOU ARE A TALKSOX PUNCHLINE FOR BEING IRRATIONAL.

[onlybereaved]

One thing that needs to be said (regardless of your opinion on the subject)...

 

"It's just not a good place to watch a ball-game" is 100% subjective.

 

To say that like it's 'actual fact' is laughable. Seriously. It's arguably the best place to watch a ball-game, but that too is 100% subjective.

 

Also "The place is a dump" being said over and over is sort of silly also. That's an exaggeration, obviously...But given the history of Fenway Park, it's just offensive to at least half of the fans/people with opinions on this subject.

 

Just saying. It's one thing to have a different opinion than those who are happy with Fenway Park as-is opposed to the idea of a new facility...It's something completely different to start saying the place is a dump and not a good place to watch a ball-game.

[Emmz]

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7657680/fenway-park-listed-national-registry-historic-places

 

****. Now they're NEVER going to upgrade.

 

This is an absolute statement. I'm afraid you're going to have to designate that this is an opinion and not an absolute.

[Emmz]

I've never been to Fenway. There's a couple points where I might have managed to scrape the money together and go but was daunted by the reputation of the tiny seating. It's no great mystery that people are bigger than they were 100 years ago, and I'm big for a modern person, clocking in at well over 350 pounds. There's no way I could actually visit Fenway and take in a game without leaving with a significantly gimpy gait, either from the constipated seating, or from having to stand for 3-4 hours with little relief. The place just isn't built for me.

 

I'll tell you all this right now. A 50,000 seat stadium, if they could find a place to put one with T access, bigger seats and all the amenities, would have 50,000 fans paying just as much as 30,000 fans pay right now, to take in those baseball games. Demand is sky high. It's not a question in my mind. They would make more money if they abandoned Fenway, at least they would once the fan revolt died down. They are tying their wrists and ankles together revenue-wise sticking with history over good business practice.

 

You've never been to Fenway? Thats an absolute statement. Please retract it.

 

Ready to get off my ass yet?

[a700hitter]

One thing that needs to be said (regardless of your opinion on the subject)...

 

"It's just not a good place to watch a ball-game" is 100% subjective.

 

To say that like it's 'actual fact' is laughable. Seriously. It's arguably the best place to watch a ball-game, but that too is 100% subjective.

 

Also "The place is a dump" being said over and over is sort of silly also. That's an exaggeration, obviously...But given the history of Fenway Park, it's just offensive to at least half of the fans/people with opinions on this subject.

 

Just saying. It's one thing to have a different opinion than those who are happy with Fenway Park as-is opposed to the idea of a new facility...It's something completely different to start saying the place is a dump and not a good place to watch a ball-game.

Of course it is a subjective statement, but it is based an opinion based on objective facts. I am emotionally tied to the Red Sox as much as any person that I know, and I always love going to Fenway to see the Sox. It is hard for me to be totally objective about Fenway, so I have relied in large part of the opinions of guest of mine who aren't no Sox fans who aren't big baseball fans who have been to games at a number of different venues. They are not emotionally tied to the team, so they can be objective about their experience. My wife and other non Sox fans that have attended Sox games with me unanimously do not think highly of Fenway. The tradition and history are just emotional things for us that add to our subjective assessment. It means nothing to people without the emotional ties to the team or ballpark.

 

As I said in an earlier post, ownership spent millions renovating the place, because they needed (not wanted) to enhance the game experience for the fans.

[a700hitter]

Thanks Ted, for setting off a pile-on. Dick.

 

I wasn't even trying to start, and I wasn't set off until right now. How is it that I knew with Dojji having posted last, I would have to go into defensive mode?

 

I can't even post here without being piled on.

I really don't see how I did that, but I have never condoned piling on, and I will not participate in it. I wouldn't sweat it though. I have seen you in much nastier dust ups than this one. This one seems pretty tame. No one is hating on you. They are just disagreeing with you about this.

[Emmz]

No, no, you aren't disagreeing. I'm not worried. I'm sick of this "typical Emmz" ******** whenever Dojji decides he needs to feel important, and all of this because I responded to someone's comment AND f***ING AGREED WITH THEM. Oh my God you don't know how frustrating that crap is. If I were trying to start up with you, would I say I wasn't? I'm to straightforward for that. I will tell you if I disagree with you, and I'm debating.

 

Do you people even think before you react to one of my posts, or do you just pull some variation of the "too argumentative" stigma I have? You're demonstrating why I hate humanity.

[a700hitter]

No, no, you aren't disagreeing. I'm not worried. I'm sick of this "typical Emmz" ******** whenever Dojji decides he needs to feel important, and all of this because I responded to someone's comment AND f***ING AGREED WITH THEM. Oh my God you don't know how frustrating that crap is. If I were trying to start up with you, would I say I wasn't? I'm to straightforward for that. I will tell you if I disagree with you, and I'm debating.

 

Do you people even think before you react to one of my posts, or do you just pull some variation of the "too argumentative" stigma I have? You're demonstrating why I hate humanity.

Ah, don't let it get you down. I have been at the bottom of the pile plenty of times. You will not let it deter you.

[Emmz]

Not the point, I go on the bottom of the pile only when fatty fatty two-by-four is online. He makes it personal, and makes it a mission to attack me in every thread.

[seabeachfred]

Earlier' date=' I think Dojji said something about pushing 350 on the scale. At the risk of sounding insensitive, he does have another option......how's about not pushing 350 on the scale. I have very little sympathy for people who allow themselves to get that out of shape when they complain about how standardized ergonomics don't accommodate their size.[/quote']

 

I'll give you this ORS---YOU'VE GOT BALLS!!!!!!!! I wanted to suggest that myself but didn't have the guts or courage to do so because I like Dojji and, yes, didn't have the courage to say so. I work out just about every day, sometimes to near exhaustion and must take a nap in the afternoon much of the time. Unless someone has thyroid trouble I find it hard to understand how someone could let themselves go like that. I will amplify was SCM did say earlier......those seats out in right field along the line do really suck. You're not facing the field and you almost have to crane your neck to see the action. I wonder why the Sox never replaced those seats.

[seabeachfred]

Thats an infestation issue' date=' and I was well aware of the issues with Boston Garden. It was noticeably dumpy in ESPN rebroadcasts of Celtics games. Its was still a classic stadium with a shitload of historical value. Whether it needed to go or not wasn't my point.[/quote']

 

We're simpatico on Fenway Emmz--all the way, but please don't bring the old Boston Garden into the classic mold...PLEASE!!!!! That place was a real shithole. Rats ran rampant in that dump and we used to get the lowdown here in the LA area every time the Lakers returned from a game or a series in that hovel. Hell, even the court had hallow spots where if you bounced the ball it would simply go limp, and that damn Auerbach used to turn the heat up sky high when the NBA Finals were held there. The one saving grace was that my Lakers finally got a player who could play and prosper there....Magic Johnson. He literally ate the Celtics alive in that place and loved to play there. But it still was a rat infested hole....nothing even remotely resembling magnificent Fenway Park.

[onlybereaved]

@a700hitter

 

Right, but why should I 'care' about the opinion of someone attending Fenway Park who have no emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park. After all, they wouldn't give a rats-ass about my emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park.

 

In the end, those two should cancel each other out. If anything, the people who DO have emotional attachment to the Red Sox and Fenway Park should 'win'. lol :harhar:

 

@Jacoby Ellsbury are you trolling, er? Every ball-park has drunk fans, or "chimps/apes"...lols "the place smells like piss", but yeah...obvious, troll is obvious.

[Emmz]

I disagree that Boston Garden was not classic. It holds a lot of history, and I acknowledged its shitholedness. Magic didn't eat crap at Boston Garden, who was 40-1 there one year? Don't think anyone ate the Celtics in the 80s, last I checked they beat the Lakers in the finals first.

[SCM33]

@a700hitter

 

Right, but why should I 'care' about the opinion of someone attending Fenway Park who have no emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park. After all, they wouldn't give a rats-ass about my emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park.

 

In the end, those two should cancel each other out. If anything, the people who DO have emotional attachment to the Red Sox and Fenway Park should 'win'. lol :harhar:

 

@Jacoby Ellsbury are you trolling, er? Every ball-park has drunk fans, or "chimps/apes"...lols "the place smells like piss", but yeah...obvious, troll is obvious.

 

Not sure if you are new to the forum world, but just to give you a heads up so everyone can see which/what you are referring to in your responses....

 

When you are looking at the thread, in the bottom right of each "post" there is the "quote" button. If you hit the quote button in any post, you will automatically respond to that members "post".

 

To the right of that, there is an icon with " and a + in it. That is to quote multiple posts that members make. You can select multiple posts then scroll to the bottom of the thread and click on "post reply". Then, you will be able to respond to all of the posts that you selected.

 

You probably already know how to do this, but just trying to help so it is easier to follow what you are referring to in your posts.

 

-SCM33

[a700hitter]

@a700hitter

 

Right, but why should I 'care' about the opinion of someone attending Fenway Park who have no emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park. After all, they wouldn't give a rats-ass about my emotional attachment to the Red Sox/Fenway Park.

 

In the end, those two should cancel each other out. If anything, the people who DO have emotional attachment to the Red Sox and Fenway Park should 'win'. lol :harhar:

 

@Jacoby Ellsbury are you trolling, er? Every ball-park has drunk fans, or "chimps/apes"...lols "the place smells like piss", but yeah...obvious, troll is obvious.

I am not saying that their opinion should mean more. I am just pointing out that stripped of emotion it is more objective. Sound business decisions are made on objective criteria, not emotion. This brings us back to square one. If the owners thought that they could get a new ballpark in Boston in a reasonable time frame, we'd already have one. I and others here have agreed that Boston politics and special interests have been the stumbling blocks. Instead, the owners made a decision to go forward with major renovations at Fenway.

[a700hitter]

I disagree that Boston Garden was not classic. It holds a lot of history' date=' and I acknowledged its shitholedness. Magic didn't eat crap at Boston Garden, who was 40-1 there one year? Don't think anyone ate the Celtics in the 80s, last I checked they beat the Lakers in the finals first.[/quote']All that was classic about that eyesore of a dumb was the parquet floor that was moved to the new arena.

[Emmz]

Exactly, the floor is the only thing I liked besides the fact that it hosted so many great teams and players. Still, I'd like to be able to say I've been there.

[onlybereaved]

I am not saying that their opinion should mean more. I am just pointing out that stripped of emotion it is more objective. Sound business decisions are made on objective criteria' date=' not emotion. This brings us back to square one. If the owners thought that they could get a new ballpark in Boston in a reasonable time frame, we'd already have one. I and others here have agreed that Boston politics and special interests have been the stumbling blocks. Instead, the owners made a decision to go forward with major renovations at Fenway.[/quote']

 

Right. This whole thread is a mixture, so it can get confusing.

 

Personally, I didn't think the majority of the thread was arguing about whether or not the smartest business decisions would be those made by people who have emotional attachment to something, vs. those who didn't. I agree with you there. My points had nothing to do with that, but more referred to people who have no emotional attachment arguing about uncomfortable seats and such. (non ownership/business decision, more fans opinions on whether or not Fenway is preferred over a newer facility, even taking into consideration the draw-backs and out-dated facility in general)

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

How about a ballpark I can sit down in?

 

Lose weight.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Watch it at home. No one's forcing you people to go to games if it sucks so bad.

 

Why should a historical landmark be replaced because you're uncomfy? We have enough state of the art pieces of s*** to watch games at, why can't we have two historical stadiums?

 

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Apparently, it's going right over their heads. If I hate my job, I'm going to quit. If I don't like playing a sport, I'll stop playing. If I don't like someone, I won't be their friend. If I don't like watching a game at a ballpark, I'll stay home. It's not that damn hard. Such a simple concept that must be made bigger than it is.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

f*** Fenway. The seats are cramped and uncomfortable and the place stinks like piss. If you're not there midsummer the place is chilly as a bastard. And what's this 'atmosphere' people are gushing about? A bunch of drunken retards howling like apes in cages, and the occasional old gimpy couple whose life's dream was to visit a f***ing ballpark. Yeah, great atmosphere. It's positively electric.

 

I think paying substantial money to sit in creaky wooden seats with drunken chimps to watch a game I could've watched at home for free is a little silly anyway, so I probably wouldn't be visiting the new park no matter what. Therefore I don't really care about what they do or don't do with Fenway.

 

Are you kidding me? What sporting event doesn't have drunk fans? That's the dumbest s*** I've ever heard. I've been to a good amount of Heat and Marlins games. I've yet to go to one without witnessing a drunk fan. It's part of sports. That's not the atmosphere we were talking about anyways.

[Emmz]

You don't want to debate anything, especially stadiums, with JE. He legit thinks all stadiums need to be alike out of fairness, and doesn't care about "fun" factors, which is why pro sports exist.

[a700hitter]

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Apparently' date=' it's going right over their heads. If I hate my job, I'm going to quit. If I don't like playing a sport, I'll stop playing. If I don't like someone, I won't be their friend. If I don't like watching a game at a ballpark, I'll stay home. It's not that damn hard. Such a simple concept that must be made bigger than it is.[/quote']You have a very simplistic view of life that reveals that you haven't had a lot of life experiences. Sometimes the hated job is the best avenue for the person to provide financial independence for his/her family. Your family's financial well-being is your responsibility. My wife read Agassi's book, and he reveals that not only does he hate tennis passionately, but so do most of the pro players. So much of their youth is robbed to become great tennis players. When they are adults, they know nothing else and it is the best opportunity for them to provide for themselves. Sometimes a sport is the best opportunity for a kid to get an education, so he plays the sport despite hating it.

 

Finally, no one said that they hate Fenway. All they are saying is that on an objective level it is a dump, but we still love it . That is where the Sox play, so that is why we go.

[Emmz]

Yeah, thats fine, but Dojji's just complaining. I get you and SCM love Fenway.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I'm not saying anyone hates it. You can't bitch about something then keep doing it. Not just on this topic, but in general. Stay your ass home.

[SCM33]

Yeah' date=' thats fine, but Dojji's just complaining. I get you and SCM love Fenway.[/quote']

 

I do love it.

 

......but after seeing other places, I have realized that it has lived its life. Its too small and outdated.

 

All of the other s*** is just "piling on".....ahhhh, I mean adding on to the negatives of the overall experience.

 

I am not saying they need to demolish it, but after seeing how they were able to clone the Fenway Park dimensions in Florida this spring, it gets me excited that they could re-create the entire thing.

 

Just imagine a new Fenway Park, an exact replicate of it....with more fans who are able to afford it, with more fans able to fit in it with all the newer amenities. When you walk through the tunnel, you will still see the Green Monster from every vantage point. You will still see Fenway Park.

 

The fans wont change because of a new park. The atmosphere wont change with a new park.....it will be the same park, but bigger....modernized.

 

I dont want a cookie cutter ballpark, I want JetBlue Park in Florida replicated in Boston....bigger, better, bolder. The builders of Camden Yards, PNC park and AT&T park in SF have built new stadiums with the "old style" feel.

 

The older generation of fans will still get the original "feel of Fenway" and the newer fans will get the modernized feel for the park.

 

Look at these clips:

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20154243&topic_id=26659768&c_id=bos

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20126399&topic_id=26659768&c_id=bos

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20161945&topic_id=26659768&c_id=bos

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20153795&topic_id=26659768&c_id=bos

 

It can be done.

[onlybereaved]

The fans wont change because of a new park. The atmosphere wont change with a new park.....it will be the same park, but bigger....modernized.

 

I dont want a cookie cutter ballpark, I want JetBlue Park in Florida replicated in Boston....bigger, better, bolder. The builders of Camden Yards, PNC park and AT&T park in SF have built new stadiums with the "old style" feel.

 

The older generation of fans will still get the original "feel of Fenway" and the newer fans will get the modernized feel for the park.

 

Sort of like the new Ford Mustangs/Dodge Chargers? Sort of like the new updated anime logos teams change to that look stupid? (+countless more, and better examples)

 

Your point is taken, but don't think you speak for all of us when you say "The atmosphere won't change with a new park" as if its some matter of fact jet-set thing. Your opinion shouldn't count solely based on your nu-metal flaming skull avatar, anyways lol!

[Emmz]

There is no "Fenway Feel". You can put a Fenway replica up, but its still not Fenway Park. Yankee Stadium is not Yankee Stadium, its a modern version of the old one. They had to make a replica to even get it done, because the fans would probably accept nothing less.

 

It's stupid, like people who renovate classic cars and put paint jobs on them. Except it would be more like if you destroyed the car and bought a new model of it, like those Thunderbird replicas they used to sell in the early 2000s that try very hard to look like the original.

[mvp 78]

All that was classic about that eyesore of a dumb was the parquet floor that was moved to the new arena.

 

Which was taken out in 99.

[mvp 78]

"Hi, I'm from MN/CA/FL/Canada, you're not allowed to tear down Fenway."

 

My contention is that people still see it as a "magical" vacation destination like Disneyland. Once you've had season tickets/passes, the so called magic wears off.

 

For all the "renovations" they've done, the RF seats are still an abomination. Personally, most of the renovations feel like putting a rice rocket wing onto a Model T.

 

Fans deserve a better place to see a game. Funny how Dodger stadium built in the 60's, is still light years ahead of Fenway, even with all the renovations. It's not a good place to watch a game and it has nothing to do with seat size though.