Red Sox 2012 Spring Training Thread.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow. Andrew Miller pumping 97 out of the gate. It's a shame his control is so inconsistent.

[Spudboy]

Middlebrooks is a big boy.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Middlebrooks is a big boy.

 

He really is. Made some solid defensive plays too. Can't believe he was a SS when he was drafted.

 

Looks like the kid can hit too.

[Palodios]

Wow. Andrew Miller pumping 97 out of the gate. It's a shame his control is so inconsistent.

 

Did Miller break 92 at all last season?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Did Miller break 92 at all last season?

 

I think he touched 93 once from the pen.

 

Joking. He actually looked really good today, especially out of the stretch.

[The Boomer]

I think he touched 93 once from the pen.

 

Joking. He actually looked really good today, especially out of the stretch.

 

I have been a Miller hopeful for a long time. I hope he can finally figure out how to get through the lineup more than once.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I have been a Miller hopeful for a long time. I hope he can finally figure out how to get through the lineup more than once.

 

He looked excellent last year at one point when he had back to back games against KC and Tex. If he can harness that, he could be a top of the rotation guy. Who knows if he'll ever reach that potential though.

[Emmz]

There's just a certain point when your talent stops mattering and it's time to be realistic, not just in baseball, but every sport. Miller stinks, and he's probably never going to pan out.

[SoxFanForsyth]

There's just a certain point when your talent stops mattering and it's time to be realistic' date=' not just in baseball, but every sport. Miller stinks, and he's probably never going to pan out.[/quote']

 

Nobody is counting on him to be a contributer. But that doesn't mean you can't hold out hope that he can figure it out.

[Emmz]

Nobody is counting on him to be a contributer. But that doesn't mean you can't hold out hope that he can figure it out.

 

It's kind of like holding out hope that someday Brady Quinn or Matt Leinart might become the QBs they were projected to be.

 

In theory, you're right, it's just not very realistic after all of this time.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Good Lord.

 

I swear, this may be the most pessimistic this board has been since I've been here, which has only been a year and a half, but it's pretty ridiculous.

 

All we're doing is discussing Andrew Miller and how he was throwing hard and had a good outing, and how nice it would be if he ever harnessed his talent, and even that gets jumped on as if we're saying "he's going to be a #1 stud this year, no doubt about it".

[SoxFanForsyth]

I swear, half the people on this board would be thrilled if this team won 81 games this year.

[Emmz]

Good Lord.

 

I swear, this may be the most pessimistic this board has been since I've been here, which has only been a year and a half, but it's pretty ridiculous.

 

All we're doing is discussing Andrew Miller and how he was throwing hard and had a good outing, and how nice it would be if he ever harnessed his talent, and even that gets jumped on as if we're saying "he's going to be a #1 stud this year, no doubt about it".

 

You can't take any realistic criticism? I personally think this team could realistically win 95 games. I'm a REALIST. You're not being realistic by saying that Andrew Miller could be good some day. You know that when your argument is that "If he could harness..."

 

Reality is that Miller stinks. He will never be what he was hyped up to be.

[Emmz]

I swear' date=' half the people on this board would be thrilled if this team won 81 games this year.[/quote']

 

Now you're just pouting.

[Dojji]

It's kind of like holding out hope that someday Brady Quinn or Matt Leinart might become the QBs they were projected to be.

 

In theory, you're right, it's just not very realistic after all of this time.

 

Who says we have to be realistic? Like baseball always conforms to your standards of realism (or mine).

 

What's wrong with a little hope?

 

Miller's hard-throwing ways give a bit of hope, and make him an interesting candidate for the pen where command standards are lower and it's easier to bring your A stuff. Is that really so insane?

[SoxFanForsyth]

You can't take any realistic criticism? I personally think this team could realistically win 95 games. I'm a REALIST. You're not being realistic by saying that Andrew Miller could be good some day. You know that when your argument is that "If he could harness..."

 

Reality is that Miller stinks. He will never be what he was hyped up to be.

 

NOBODY IS PROJECTING HIM TO BE GOOD!! All I said was that it would be nice if he could harness his potential, that's it! I don't see why that somehow translates to me saying "He's likely going to be good" and somehow I'm not realistic about it.

 

According to this board, Buchholz is no better than a 4.20 FIP pitcher, Bard is going to have an ERA north of 4, Carl Crawford is doomed and he's going to have to learn to play Jim Abbott style because he has no wrist, and anyone who hopes for the best is unrealistic.

 

It's not just you, Emmz. It's a lot of people, and it's annoying as hell. I don't think I've seen 1 positive post about this team.

 

This is the exact same team minus Scutaro (113 games played) and Papelbon (whose replacement in Bailey will see minimal dropoff). And without Lackey or Wakefield, who combined for 51 starts at an ERA of 6.

 

But if you go by these posts, it's like this is the Pittsburgh Pirates from 2005. I just don't understand it. It makes zero sense. This is a 93-96 win team right now.

 

They were 31 games over .500 on August 31st last year. That's unbelievable. From April 16th to August 31st, they were 81-42. That's .659 baseball, which is a 107 win pace. And that was for 123 games of the season.

 

People are putting entirely, entirely too much weight on the first 12 and the final 27 games of the season and completely disregarding the 123 games before that.

[Emmz]

Who says we have to be realistic? Like baseball always conforms to your standards of realism (or mine).

 

What's wrong with a little hope?

 

You're still holding out hope for Tug "The Player To Be Named Later" Hulett, I didn't expect you to understand.

[The Boomer]

He looked excellent last year at one point when he had back to back games against KC and Tex. If he can harness that' date=' he could be a top of the rotation guy. Who knows if he'll ever reach that potential though.[/quote']

 

I saw him live in Chicago and he looked good then too. The ChiSox don't know how to take a walk though, which is exactly the kind of team he does well against.

[Emmz]

I'm not going to spend an hour trying to debunk your theories that "he could be good" when I don't even interpret your argument that way. This is why you're still the king of the straw.

 

All I said is that you're unrealistic by holding out hope, or saying "if he could harness the goodness of [small sample size]".

 

I'm not about to spend 10 pages on this with you like I did with your silly Salty obsession you had last season. I've made my point.

[Dojji]

I'm not going to spend an hour trying to debunk your theories that "he could be good" when I don't even interpret your argument that way. This is why you're still the king of the straw.

 

All I said is that you're unrealistic by holding out hope, or saying "if he could harness the goodness of [small sample size]".

 

I'm not about to spend 10 pages on this with you like I did with your silly Salty obsession you had last season. I've made my point.

 

Emmz. that post didn't even need to be made. It existed entirely to allow you to get the last word in a debate you weren't all that interested in and had managed to embarrass yourself slightly, And it proved his point brilliantly.

 

You're better than this. Stop using nastiness in the place of logic. You're too good at logic for me to let you get away with that.

[SoxSport]

I just had a look at Fox's pre-season power rankings. These things have become useless in Baseball because of the playoffs, injuries, etc.

 

Phillies--1 OK

 

Yankees--2 ??

 

Rangers--3

 

Tigers--4

 

The Red Sox are buried somewhere out of the top 10. Why? They were ranked #1 this time last season,

and the team hasn't changed much. Add Buchholz, subtract Pap, etc.

 

The Yankees made a a couple of hi profile moves getting Kuroda and Pineda (subtracting the next "Babe Ruth", Montero). But is their big 3 in starters as good as the Red Sox? The answer is which big 3 shows up for the Red Sox this year. The Yankees, as well.

 

The Red Sox are at least as talented as the Yankees on paper, but have a history of underachieving the past few years. That may change with the new manager.

 

Right now, I would put the Red Sox right there with the Yankees. NY always has the age factor to deal with. Who knows about Kuroda in the AL east at 37. And Pineda sucked the 2nd half last year.

 

So why are the Yankees ranked #2? The answer is they play in NY, and that's where the big network media is located.

 

Anybody who ranks the Tigers and Rangers below the Yankees right now has got to be nuts, or inflicted with big market hypomania.

[Emmz]

Emmz. that post didn't even need to be made. It existed entirely to allow you to get the last word in a debate you weren't all that interested in and had managed to embarrass yourself slightly, And it proved his point brilliantly.

 

You're better than this. Stop using nastiness in the place of logic. You're too good at logic for me to let you get away with that.

 

I would be, but he's just going to keep going with the "i'm not expecting anything" route. It's his thing to hide behind those strawmen.

 

My logic is sound, SFF is just letting his fantasy-world optimism get to him. I'm just telling it how it is. Andrew Miller isn't going to be good. Ever. If he was, several teams wouldn't have already given up on him.

[Emmz]

And he keeps making me out to be a pessimist. You're entitled to be unrealistic, just as I'm entitled to give my realistic opinion. SFF just thinks anyone who doesn't agree with his way excessive opinions is a pessimist. Look what he's doing. He's ranting about pessimists after every post I make. It's ridiculous. My days of discussing things for 10 pages, knowing they're going nowhere, went down the crapper when my laptop blew up.

 

He has a unique positive spin on things, and its appreciated sometimes, but now he's ranting because I disagreed with him.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow. Andrew Miller pumping 97 out of the gate. It's a shame his control is so inconsistent.

 

He looked excellent last year at one point when he had back to back games against KC and Tex. If he can harness that' date=' he could be a top of the rotation guy. [b'] Who knows if he'll ever reach that potential though.[/b]

 

Nobody is counting on him to be a contributer. But that doesn't mean you can't hold out hope that he can figure it out.

 

Please explain to me how this is overly optimistic and unrealistic?? Every single thing that I said about him had a qualifier associated with it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would be, but he's just going to keep going with the "i'm not expecting anything" route. It's his thing to hide behind those strawmen.

 

My logic is sound, SFF is just letting his fantasy-world optimism get to him. I'm just telling it how it is. Andrew Miller isn't going to be good. Ever. If he was, several teams wouldn't have already given up on him.

 

Kind of like Josh Hamilton I guess.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And excuse me if I trust the Red Sox talent evaluators and coaching staff in the evaluation of a players talent and likelihood of reaching his potential just slightly more than I trust Emmz from talksox.....

[Emmz]

In one ear, out the other. I've made my case. I shouldn't have to explain it to you several times over, but I'll do it one last time. It's unrealistic to hold out hope because he's been in the league for a long time now. There's a point where its unreasonable to hold out hope. If Tim Tebow still sucks at passing a couple years from now, I will say that the hope is gone. Andrew Miller is now 27 years old and hasn't gained command of his pitches.

 

If he was 20 it would be different.

[Emmz]

And excuse me if I trust the Red Sox talent evaluators and coaching staff in the evaluation of a players talent and likelihood of reaching his potential just slightly more than I trust Emmz from talksox.....

 

The talent evaluators are on my side. Lol.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In one ear, out the other. I've made my case. I shouldn't have to explain it to you several times over, but I'll do it one last time. It's unrealistic to hold out hope because he's been in the league for a long time now. There's a point where its unreasonable to hold out hope. If Tim Tebow still sucks at passing a couple years from now, I will say that the hope is gone. Andrew Miller is now 27 years old and hasn't gained command of his pitches.

 

If he was 20 it would be different.

 

Expecting and hoping are two different things. I guess you can't get that through your head because that's all you keep banging on. Relying on him to make a contribution is not realistic. Saying "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential" and "Too bad he is so erratic"?? Ha. Saying that's "unrealistic" is laughable.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The talent evaluators are on my side. Lol.

 

I guess that's why the Red Sox kept him on board.

 

Edit: Oops. almost forgot. LoL.