The Collapse

[example1]

Here's the "blockbuster" article, no doubt... deserves its own thread:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...llapse/?page=2

 

Holy s***... going to quote a bunch of it for discussions sake...

 

"As Hurricane Irene barreled toward Boston in late August, management proposed moving up the Sunday finale of a weekend series against Oakland so the teams could play a day-night doubleheader either Friday, Aug. 26, or Saturday, Aug. 27. The reasoning seemed sound: the teams would avoid a Sunday rainout and the dilemma of finding a mutual makeup date for teams separated by 2,700 miles.

 

 

But numerous Sox players angrily protested. They returned early that Friday from Texas after a demanding stretch in which they had played 14 of 17 games on the road, with additional stops in Minneapolis, Seattle, and Kansas City. The players accused management of caring more about making money than winning, which marked the first time the team’s top executives sensed serious trouble brewing in the clubhouse."

 

And, are you f***ing kidding me:

 

"As it turned out, the Sox swept the Saturday doubleheader, but that stormy day marked the beginning of the end for the 2011 team. It was the last time the team would win two games in a row. After getting two days off, the Sox spent the rest of the season playing uninspired, subpar baseball, losing 21 of their final 29 games.

 

Sox owners soon suspected the team’s poor play was related to lingering resentment over the scheduling dispute, sources said. The owners responded by giving all the players $300 headphones and inviting them to enjoy a players-only night on principal owner John W. Henry’s yacht after they returned from a road trip Sept. 11.

 

What a bunch of pussy babies. Jesus. $300 headphones"

 

And:

 

 

"Ownership was divided over Epstein’s push to acquire Crawford as a free agent, sources said. At least one top executive believed Crawford’s skills as a speedy lefthanded-hitting outfielder seemed to duplicate Ellsbury’s. But the owners ultimately agreed to gamble $142 million over seven years on Crawford - a lost wager to date.

 

The owners also indicated in postseason remarks they were generally unaware of how deeply damaged the Sox had become until after the season. They denied being distracted by their expanding sports conglomerate - from the Sox and NESN to Roush Fenway Racing and the Liverpool Football Club - but they professed to have no knowledge about players drinking during games, among other issues."

 

--This was a report by Hohler, Abraham and Cafardo. The Globe's recokoning piece and probably the blockbuster that was promised.

 

I'm surprised that Theo pushed so hard for Crawford. He was unlikely to produce what he was being paid and he doesn't fit into the way the Sox tend to construct their teams.

[Cocos Disciples]

So, f*** most of the 2011 Red Sox.

[example1]

Pretty much.

 

How can you not put the weight squarely on the players? f***ing Martin Luther King Jr with Julius Caeser as a bench coach couldn't motivate this group of clowns.

 

Who can blame Theo and Tito for wanting to leave... Christ.

 

We're all lucky Henry and Luchino aren't trying to follow Theo to Chicago.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Holy s***. What a bunch of *******s.

 

Also, I can't view the article because Boston.com does this stupid thing where it wants me to become a member to read stuff. Not letting me access this article. Mind posting it all?

[example1]

Holy s***. What a bunch of *******s.

 

Also, I can't view the article because Boston.com does this stupid thing where it wants me to become a member to read stuff. Not letting me access this article. Mind posting it all?

 

It's like 6 pages long and its probably not proper.

 

Other topics:

 

Francona maybe had a prescription pill problem.

 

Beckett, Lester and Lackey liked to eat fried chicken, drink beer and play video games while the team was out there playing.

 

Ellsbury didn't do much leading, maybe resenting guys like Youkilis but mostly being a loner.

 

Adrian Gonzalez isn't a leader either. A good player, yes, but not a leader.

 

... there may be more... I can't remember at this point.

[example1]

I suspect someone will come out and say this is a "smear job" but I tend to like these authors, and think that this report is truly unflattering for all involved.

 

Theo is more or less untouched, except for spending all that f***ing money on Crawford. The owners look like desperate fools who tried to motivate selfish jerks.

 

I think the saddest thing is thinking about Jon Lester--a supposed warrior--falling into bad habits. I hope this isn't true, but he sure as hell looked like he wasn't capable of getting through 7 in the most important games of the season.

 

He looked like me out there!

[BigPapiEnFuego]

It's like 6 pages long and its probably not proper.

 

Other topics:

 

Francona maybe had a prescription pill problem.

 

Beckett, Lester and Lackey liked to eat fried chicken, drink beer and play video games while the team was out there playing.

 

Ellsbury didn't do much leading, maybe resenting guys like Youkilis but mostly being a loner.

 

Adrian Gonzalez isn't a leader either. A good player, yes, but not a leader.

 

... there may be more... I can't remember at this point.

 

Wow. That Francona one is a big surprise. Probably accounts for his slowness in relieving pitchers and other decisions this year

 

If this is all true though, it's a huge disappointment. It'll be hard for me to look at this team the same next year

[example1]

Wow. That Francona one is a big surprise. Probably accounts for his slowness in relieving pitchers and other decisions this year

 

If this is all true though, it's a huge disappointment. It'll be hard for me to look at this team the same next year

 

This piece has smear risk written all over it. I mean, the stuff about Francona's usage is speculative and not something I would want to label him with.

 

The piece squarely sets its sites on the players and represents their behavior--especially the behavior of their starting pitchers--as a significant outlier. A parallell outlier? How about the biggest collapse in history? Those kind of match.

 

The Sox SPs in September had a 7 something ERA, right? The offense stayed the same, but the starters sucked.

 

What could possibly deflate 3 former All-Star's motivation so quickly. It's like 3 10th graders in HIgh School who suddenly discover pot and want to just play video games, drink and eat fried food all the time.

[example1]

Our only hope, as fans?

 

Embarassment.

 

Like Theo said in the presser, the only silver-lining of such a collapse is that you can't ignore what happened. If Lester and Beckett and Lackey figured that they could slack off, not train, and drink during games because the team would make the playoffs, their gamble came to a horriffic end.

 

Embarassment.

 

Hopefully these guys have enough pride to be embarassed by their names being put in print.

 

My predictions:

 

1. Theo is gone. Ownership is indifferent to that. They don't see it as his fault, but Cherrington can replace him just fine in their view. That makes Theo happy, ownership wants to rebuild (a700 is right).

 

2. This piece is largely from ownership. Henry looks petty and out of touch with $300 headphones, but it's an endearing thought to think of him inviting the team out on his yacht... as if that would work. It's at least generous.

 

3. Embarassment is the name of the day. Ownership has every right to embarass guys like Lackey and Beckett until the cows come home. They are two veteran leaders who are supposed to do more.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Wow, just reading what E1 posted has me shocked. That's pretty bad and I never would have thought this team would do s*** like this. The link doesn't work on my ipod so I'm going to pray it works on my ps3 when I get back home from school. I'm very anxious to read the article.

[soxfan17881]

I'm horrified by the things in this article.

 

I was not a fan of the Lackey signing from the start. He always impressed me as a self centered player when he was with the Angels (not to mention overrated) and I was not looking forward to having to root for him. As it turns out, his 2011 season is officially the worst in Red Sox history.

 

Like someone said above, Lester is the one who really breaks my heart. His back story is one of a fighter. Overcoming such adversity to become one of the foremost pitchers in MLB, only to have sunk down to this level? Nauseating!

 

I don't know what to say about Beckett. His resume is awesome, but it's only worth so much. He's not good enough now to compensate this kind of a drag on the team.

 

So Tito is gone and Theo is going. What happens next? What are the odds that something can bring these players together and performing in 2012?

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedroia comes out looking really good in the article. That was a well written piece. Might be time to detach the C from Tek's jersey and put it on Duddy's

[yeszir]

Just read the article. Infuriating. Pedroia is the only guy on the team with any heart whatsoever. Beer chicken and video games in the clubhouse DURING A GAME? Are you kidding me?

 

Screw this Occupy Boston stuff, let's Occupy Fenway

[example1]

Here's my question: with ownerships concern that scheduling the doubleheader literally pushed the players over the edge, is there any way to see this other than the sox had players who essentially threw the season? Disgruntled players aren't enough to explain epic collapse. This was play of a historically bad nature. Like some players said "we will show you... Go f*** yourself ownership."

[yeszir]

As joyful as Ellsbury’s MVP-caliber season was to many fans, his interaction in the Sox clubhouse was limited mostly to his friend Jed Lowrie. Ellsbury produced one of the most sensational seasons for a leadoff hitter in franchise history - he also ranked with Pedroia, Aceves, and Jonathan Papelbon among the team’s hardest workers - but he contributed little to the clubhouse culture.

 

This also leads me to believe that Ells is gone after next year.

[yeszir]

Here's my question: with ownerships concern that scheduling the doubleheader literally pushed the players over the edge' date=' is there any way to see this other than the sox had players who essentially threw the season? Disgruntled players aren't enough to explain epic collapse. This was play of a historically bad nature. Like some players said "we will show you... Go f*** yourself ownership."[/quote']

 

I think there's a difference between a lack of effort and throwing the season. The article gives the impression that most of the big name guys just stopped caring.

[example1]

Who ISNT gone? Pedroia, Gonzalez. Ells can fit in a clubhouse that is normal.

[yeszir]

If all this is true, there's just no way that a clubhouse can recover from something like this without drastic personnel shakeups. I just don't see Beckett Lester and Lackey changing their attitudes, $300 headphones notwithstanding

[Palodios]

If Jed Lowrie was my only friend, I'd be okay with that.

[Palodios]

Apparently Terry Francona was separated from his wife, and addicted to painkillers? Man, what s s***-show.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This also leads me to believe that Ells is gone after next year.

 

Not to be nitpicky, but he's not a FA until 2014.

 

Regardless, though, the FO would be smart to exploit this aberration of a season and sell high on him. Trade him to the Angels (where I expect him to end up) for someone like Dan Haren. Trade him to the Braves in a 3-team deal for Felix.

 

I absolutely agree with you that Ells will be gone the minute he hits free agency. I wouldn't want to play for a team where guys like Youkilis are bitching at me for rehabbing somewhere else (by the way, nice Home/Away splits this year, Youk. Maybe you should be the one that doesn't travel with the team).

 

Anyway - sell high on him. If you have to go sign a guy like Coco Crisp for a year or two to, dare I say, "bridge" the gap between now and the time guys like Brandon Jacobs and Bryce Brentz are ready, so be it.

 

This team has an absolute abundance of offense. Put Crawford in CF where we can exploit his defense and keep him away from the short porch in LF. Hell, go trade for Carlos Quentin and stick him in LF and put Kalish in RF.

 

There are a ton of options that we have to replace Ellsbury, and he's not going to be around for the long term, so sell high on him now and bring in someone who will be around long term, like Felix or Haren.

[example1]

I don't think you move Ellsbury, but I wouldn't hesitate to move guys like Beckett and/or Lester. I don't know enough about the underlying situation but I'm worried that some of this is stuff you can't get back.

 

A leader is always a leader; once Beckett has taken a giant s*** on this team I think he's going to be unable to lead, which removes a good portion of his value. I'm hopeful that guys who apparently were, at best, disappointingly neutral throughout this whole thing--including Youkilis, Ortiz, Gonzalez, Ellsbury--can still retain some portion of dignity and leadership potential.

 

Imagine being Eric Bedard walking into this absolute shitstorm. No matter he looked like a deer in headlights... he's like "I can't believe what I'm seeing".

[Palodios]

Beckett AND Lester?

[Gringo]

The pill popping thing is disturbing....clearly libelous if not true, so therefore we can assume it's true.....

 

So a pill popping manager, booze swilling slobs in the clubhouse playing Grand Theft Auto while the rest of the team is on the field, the team MVP not wanting anything to do with the scumbag huckleberries surrounding him, a God-fearing first baseman who couldn't be bothered to step up to the figurative plate, a "Captain" in name only, a smattering of veterans who mailed it in at the end showing no pride at all....most of us play baseball or softball to RELAX after a 40-80 work week at a REAL job. And these scrubs complain about a doubleheader?

 

TOTAL DISGRACE

[SoxSport]

I think Abraham et al knew a lot of what was going on with the Sox for quite awhile--the lack of conditioning, etc. They hinted of it occasionally, but didn't make an issue until after Tito was let go.

That's when the floodgates opened. And there is probably still more they know.

[SoxSport]

The pill popping thing is disturbing....clearly libelous if not true, so therefore we can assume it's true.....

 

So a pill popping manager, booze swilling slobs in the clubhouse playing Grand Theft Auto while the rest of the team is on the field, the team MVP not wanting anything to do with the scumbag huckleberries surrounding him, a God-fearing first baseman who couldn't be bothered to step up to the figurative plate, a "Captain" in name only, a smattering of veterans who mailed it in at the end showing no pride at all....most of us play baseball or softball to RELAX after a 40-80 work week at a REAL job. And these scrubs complain about a doubleheader?

 

TOTAL DISGRACE

 

I wouldn't blame AdGon--first year player. Doesn't know the ropes. I would be more concerned about his 2nd half decline. What's the story there.

 

Keep in mind these guys are all millionaires--including the manager--grossly overpaid because they are in the TV entertainment business, basically.

This is what can happen when you have an easy-going organization from the top down.

 

With Steinbrenner, it doesn't happen.

[VA Sox Fan]

Apparently Terry Francona was separated from his wife' date=' and addicted to painkillers? Man, what s s***-show.[/quote']

 

Not addicted to painkillers come on folks:

 

By numerous accounts, manager Terry Francona lost his ability to prevent some of the lax behavior that characterized the collapse. Team sources said Francona, who has acknowledged losing influence with some former team leaders, appeared distracted during the season by issues related to his troubled marriage and to his health.

 

Francona spent the season living in a hotel after he moved out of the Brookline home he shared with Jacque, his wife of nearly 30 years. But he adamantly denied his marital problems affected his job performance.

 

“It makes me angry that people say these things because I’ve busted my [butt] to be the best manager I can be,’’ Francona said. “I wasn’t terribly successful this year, but I worked harder and spent more time at the ballpark this year than I ever did.

 

Team sources also expressed concern that Francona’s performance may have been affected by his use of pain medication, which he also vehemently denied. Francona said he has taken pain medicine for many years, particularly after multiple knee surgeries. He said he used painkillers after knee surgery last October and used them during the season to relieve the discomfort of doctors draining blood from his knee at least five times.

 

Francona acknowledged that he consulted the team’s internist, Dr. Larry Ronan, during spring training after one of his children expressed concern about a pill bottle in his hotel room. Francona said the doctor told him he did not have a drug abuse problem. Ronan could not be reached.

 

“I went and saw the proper people and it was not an issue,’’ Francona said. “It never became an issue, and anybody who knew what was going on knows that.’’

[SCM33]

So it looks like I was to to something when I made a thread "This has to be said" saying that we need to blow the entire thing up.

 

What a disgrace. The past 2 years have been my least favorite since the early 90's.

[jung]

Even cleaning house may not resolve this mess. Ya' can't get rid of 25 players which is usually one of the reasons that Managers are let go. However the entire team save one or two guys got pulled into the abyss along with the rest and there are some enduring problems here that may not go away.

 

The simple fact that the players felt entitled to pull the plug over doubleheaders and road games is mind boggling.

 

While I have often commented in this forum regarding ownership's propensity to be overly focused on the Sox brand, marketing and the business aspects of owning a professional sports franchise but players using that as an excuse for not playing ala' ownership "cares more about making money than winning" is disgusting. "Ownership cares more about making money".... No s*** Sherlock. Grow up. The owners are not playing with Monopoly money. Maybe they should start paying these Bozo's with Monopoly money and see how how they like THEM apples.

 

As for the $300. headphones and a day on the Good Ship Henry, while hindsight is 20:20 I think it is an example of a bit of detachment from this mess. Obviously the players threw that right back in his face. However, I cannot convince myself that was going to have a positive impact. I do think given the uproar that a discussion with the players that suggested ownership's commitment to winning and reviewed the effort involved for the players had they chosen to somehow break up those games and play them in some alternate fashion would have been worthwhile. It sounds to me like trying to play those games some other way would have been at least as painful to the players as the doubleheader was. What do the players expect? Henry is not God and he cannot buy good weather. I am not saying that Henry or LL should have addressed the whole team but maybe a discussion with the team "leaders" and asking them to get the right message to the rest of the team might have done a number of good things just when they were really needed or asking them if they thought addressing the whole team was in order might have opened the door to a much needed clearing of the air. Maybe playing it that way would have had no impact but we already know the result from what they did do. Anybody like how that worked out?

 

I do think it is time to move Beckett at this point. He has value and he is a good candidate for the get something for this the guy while he has some value move. That is not something we do well here but based on the overarching circumstances this one might turn out to be easier for the Sox to figure out than most. Gammon's is on EEI right now talking about not being able to move Beckett because of his contract and how he thinks Beckett can be turned around but boy, I just don't know how you go into another season depending on his "leadership" of the staff given what happened. Unfortunately if Beckett is there he is going to be the guy the staff is going to turn to.

[a700hitter]

Apparently Terry Francona was separated from his wife' date=' and addicted to painkillers? Man, what s s***-show.[/quote']The Boston red Sox spin machine kicks into high gear. This is so true to form. Theo will be next. I hate this stuff. It's cowardly to go after a guy after he's gone. I don't read the stuff. I don't care about the spin. What I see on the field is the only thing I can judge. Lots of people turn on these guys based on the salacious stuff, but I still like Manny, Pedro, Nomar, Tito and Theo no matter what the press writes about them with information from unnamed Red Sox officials. This (like 20-20 after the fact trade proposals from unnamed sources) has no credibility without a name attached. It's spin and the Sox are masters of it.