Is Theo next?

[example1]

This article sounds more likely they want to promote him than get rid of him.

 

The thought of promoting him never came up from the dim-witted WEEI guys. They immediately went to "Black" (he's going to Chicago) and "White" (He's getting an extension of GM and will be GM forever).

 

My thinking on the matter is that the Sox management may think that Theo has not only done a good job and is interested in a different job, but he has literally manualized the process of player development, scouting and player evaluation. The Red Sox own "Carmine" (the computer program) and they likely own the manuels that Theo and Ben etc., wrote about all the steps the Sox take to do everything they do.

 

That's what is called "institutional knowledge" and is a really strong part of Theo's leadership style. All organizations worry about certain types of knowledge living and dyling with particular individuals, rather than being part of the organizational culture.

 

In other words, if Theo has a better opportunity (to make, 5-6 million) elsewhere, they aren't going to stop his personal growth, particularly because enough of his approach is solidified in their organization. Another reason that they are supportive and praising of him while understanding that nobody would want to exist in the Boston fishbowl in such a prominant position for perpetuity.

[example1]

As I said, I'd be surprise if he continues. Back to back to back years of failures was too much. GMs heads usually rolls in these situations.

 

Some players should go as well in order to complete the clean up. We'll see.

 

Do heads usually roll up? I don't think so.

 

If Theo leaves it will be for a better position with the Cubs. That's not a head rolling, as much as you would like it to be.

[iortiz]

Do heads usually roll up? I don't think so.

 

If Theo leaves it will be for a better position with the Cubs. That's not a head rolling, as much as you would like it to be.

 

If he walks, JH and Co. would be making his exit easier, can't you see? Really?

 

Why are they letting him talk with Chicago?

 

Ultimately, He is under contract for one year, isn't he? . If they like to keep him, they would make everything in their hands in order to retain him, don't you think?. It's clear they want to explore other horizons.

 

We'll be fine E1 don't worry.

[a700hitter]

Nope. If Ben Charrington is his replacement we will basically get the same approach to baseball and team management. That's what I care about most. I'm a pretty solid convert to the advanced metrics and use of data in baseball. I hope they will stick with a guy like Charrington.

 

From what I heard from Henry and Lucchino, they are either going to find a way to promote Theo, or he will be in Chicago as the President. We will get to see if he's capable of turning that organization around. In the meantime, the same computer programs and people (LL, JH, TW) will be participating in discussions to balance the teams need for competitive players with their need to put fans in the seats, and there will still be bad FA signings. Your scapegoat will be gone, and you'll have to find someone new to rail against with your all-powerful hindsight.

BTW, do you have a morning show on WEEI by any chance? That Callahan guy pretty much reminds me of who I imagine you are in the "real world".

I didn't scapegoat him, because he has the position of authority where he is responsible for team performance, personnel moves and player development. His position carries with it those responsibilities. I only rail with foresight, but you can only evaluate performance using hindsight. Several of us here and in the press have been evaluating Theo's record. I think that's fair. It's not railing.

 

Edit: I don't know why you are so intent on trying to paint me in a bad light. At least, I am here discussing these issues with you. Theo ain't gonna answer our calls. We say that he is responsible, which he is. We say that he has done a bad job. You say that he has done a good job. That's all there is to it. Nothing personal against you or Theo.

[example1]

I didn't scapegoat him, because he has the position of authority where he is responsible for team performance, personnel moves and player development. His position carries with it those responsibilities. I only rail with foresight, but you can only evaluate performance using hindsight. Several of us here and in the press have been evaluating Theo's record. I think that's fair. It's not railing.

 

Edit: I don't know why you are so intent on trying to paint me in a bad light. At least, I am here discussing these issues with you. Theo ain't gonna answer our calls. We say that he is responsible, which he is. We say that he has done a bad job. You say that he has done a good job. That's all there is to it. Nothing personal against you or Theo.

 

I just got off the phone with Theo. He disagrees with your assertion.

 

It's nothing personal. I just find it a bit interesting.

 

I think my view of Theo is similar to my view of Tito. There were clearly things that he did wrong, but there was a lot of behind the scenes things that he did right. Like even JH and LL said today, this team has averaged more wins than any other team besides the Yankees during his time there. That could be attributed to their payroll, but that would be a bit naive, given that other teams with high payrolls have dipped up and down in terms of wins while the Sox have remained largely consistent.

 

Also, like I said (somewhere), there's a lot about how Theo managed the organization internally that deserves respect. The development of actual systems to ensure consistency of approach, strong drafts, excellent FO personnel recruitment and development, etc., are not things to be taken lightly. Like Tito, he was a person who made others want to work hard for him and to achieve at a very high level. Easy to overlook but essential in a place like Boston.

 

Just as Tito often took the hit for his players and managed to keep clubhouse issues in the clubhouse (despite some very big egos), Theo (and this ownership/FO in general) managed to do a lot of things behind the scenes well to buffer the drama-potential in the city, and that's one of the things that makes him generally regarded as an excellent GM. Revenues went up significantly and this is now one of the most lucrative teams in sports. Some of his most high profile moves haven't panned out, but if this team had made the playoffs over the Rays they would have had the highest proportion of their wins from homegrown players of any team in baseball. That's pretty impressive for a big market team.

[a700hitter]

I just got off the phone with Theo. He disagrees with your assertion.

 

It's nothing personal. I just find it a bit interesting.

 

I think my view of Theo is similar to my view of Tito. There were clearly things that he did wrong, but there was a lot of behind the scenes things that he did right. Like even JH and LL said today, this team has averaged more wins than any other team besides the Yankees during his time there. That could be attributed to their payroll, but that would be a bit naive, given that other teams with high payrolls have dipped up and down in terms of wins while the Sox have remained largely consistent.

 

Also, like I said (somewhere), there's a lot about how Theo managed the organization internally that deserves respect. The development of actual systems to ensure consistency of approach, strong drafts, excellent FO personnel recruitment and development, etc., are not things to be taken lightly. Like Tito, he was a person who made others want to work hard for him and to achieve at a very high level. Easy to overlook but essential in a place like Boston.

 

Just as Tito often took the hit for his players and managed to keep clubhouse issues in the clubhouse (despite some very big egos), Theo (and this ownership/FO in general) managed to do a lot of things behind the scenes well to buffer the drama-potential in the city, and that's one of the things that makes him generally regarded as an excellent GM. Revenues went up significantly and this is now one of the most lucrative teams in sports. Some of his most high profile moves haven't panned out, but if this team had made the playoffs over the Rays they would have had the highest proportion of their wins from homegrown players of any team in baseball. That's pretty impressive for a big market team.

No one ever said that he didn't do a lot of things well. The results were just not there over the past three years,and it had nothing to do with luck or any other excuses. The results were not good.

 

BTW: You should probably write Theo's resumes and cover letters. You doan excellent job of promoting him.

[iortiz]

No one ever said that he didn't do a lot of things well. The results were just not there over the past three years' date='and it had nothing to do with luck or any other excuses. The [u']results[/u] were not good.

BTW: You should probably write Theo's resumes and cover letters. You doan excellent job of promoting him.

 

Exactly.

 

This is the main premise why GMs often walk from organizations. We are not scapegoat him. It is understood from the beginning, you walk if no longer deliver results. As simple as that.

 

Results. Weren't. Good. Last. 3. Years.

 

Ain't personal, just pointing the facts about his delivery and performance as a GM in that time frame.

[Cairns_Sox]

He's going to the Cubs. I give it 2 weeks if that.

[example1]

Exactly.

 

This is the main premise why GMs often walk from organizations. We are not scapegoat him. It is understood from the beginning, you walk if no longer deliver results. As simple as that.

 

Results. Weren't. Good. Last. 3. Years.

 

Ain't personal, just pointing the facts about his delivery and performance as a GM in that time frame.

 

Which GMs are you talking about who left one job to go to another job, while ostensibly being pushed out of the first one?

 

You are saying this as if it happens all the time. It doesn't. In my memory, usually when a GM is "pushed out" they don't immediately get hired by another organization.

 

WIth a year left on his contract, I suspect Theo will either be hired elsewhere or kept with the Sox for another year.

[SoxSport]

Ok with me. Just make sure he takes Lackey with him. That's been picked up in the media the last few days--even in the Chicago papers. Theo goes, Lackey goes with him.

[SoxSport]

Theo was throwing darts at the wall the last couple of years--signing free agents. No regards whatsoever for team chemistry.Moving Ells to LF and Youks to 3B were big examples. He falls in love with certain players (e.g., AdGon) with out much regards to the effect on the team. Just a bunch of stars like the Yankees. But it's all about pitching. The Yankees found that out quick in the playoffs.

[SoxSport]

If he walks, JH and Co. would be making his exit easier, can't you see? Really?

 

Why are they letting him talk with Chicago?

 

Ultimately, He is under contract for one year, isn't he? . If they like to keep him, they would make everything in their hands in order to retain him, don't you think?. It's clear they want to explore other horizons.

 

We'll be fine E1 don't worry.

 

Certainly sounds like he's leaving--from the WEEI interview.

 

If Theo walks the plank, they'll give him the same rope they gave Tito. The chance to quit.

[a700hitter]

So is E1 saying that he believes that if Theo walks to the Cubs, it will be against the wishes of the Red Sox FO?

[jacksonianmarch]

Theo was throwing darts at the wall the last couple of years--signing free agents. No regards whatsoever for team chemistry.Moving Ells to LF and Youks to 3B were big examples. He falls in love with certain players (e.g.' date=' AdGon) with out much regards to the effect on the team. Just a bunch of stars like the Yankees. But it's all about pitching. The Yankees found that out quick in the playoffs.[/quote']

 

How did the Yankees find that out in the playoffs? We allowed 17 runs in 5 games. Our offense at a big dick in the three games we lost

[iortiz]

Which GMs are you talking about who left one job to go to another job, while ostensibly being pushed out of the first one?

 

You are saying this as if it happens all the time. It doesn't. In my memory, usually when a GM is "pushed out" they don't immediately get hired by another organization.

 

WIth a year left on his contract, I suspect Theo will either be hired elsewhere or kept with the Sox for another year.

 

E1, they clearly want to get rid of Theo, they are just making the things easier for everybody.

 

Can't you see that? Really? Since the Red Sox FO let him talk with the Cubs, they clearly want to explore other horizons, otherwise they would have done anything in their hands to hold him back, ANYTHING. But after this mess, do you really think they want him back?

 

I'm not sure why are you taking this Theo's thing so personal.

 

If he gets another job or has 10 job proposals, good for him, nobody is wishing him any bad, but we need another GM who can make us better than we have been last three years. What else can you lose? Another 100 MUSD at FA? Another no go to POs? Etc... But at least the FO gonna try and you can't blame them for that.

[iortiz]

Ok with me. Just make sure he takes Lackey with him. That's been picked up in the media the last few days--even in the Chicago papers. Theo goes' date=' Lackey goes with him[/b'].

 

If The FO achieves that, would be great.

 

So is E1 saying that he believes that if Theo walks to the Cubs' date=' it will be against the wishes of the Red Sox FO?[/quote']

 

Seems so... I don't get why he wants to put that way. It's far to be that way. Far. Sounds like his agent.

[a700hitter]

A very interesting quote from John Henry:

 

 

I think there’s a certain shelf life in these jobs. You can only be the general manager if you’re sane. You can only be the manager for a certain amount of time. It’s a tremendous pressure-cooker here, 162 games. It’s a long season, and the pressure here is 365 days.

 

Edit: It looks like he thinks like I do--- that these cycles play out. Nine years as GM is a lot. Unlike JH, I never questioned Theo's sanity.

[example1]

So is E1 saying that he believes that if Theo walks to the Cubs' date=' it will be against the wishes of the Red Sox FO?[/quote']

 

 

 

Given the discussion around Tito leaving and him apparently expressing questions about his own ability to keep doing it in this setting, I suspect any desire this FO has to see Theo move on is based on how "burned-out" he is appearing. I think that's what Henry is referring to. I work in a field with lots of burnout. It is well understood that people simply get tired of fighting the same fights over and over and over again.

 

If they hire Charrington that tells me they liked Theo's approach. If they go in a completely different direction that tells me thy had serious concerns about Theos abilities.

 

Henry was very clear in the interview that all major decisions are a collaborative process. Meaning Crawford, Lackey, Dice-k, are not decisions they hold Theo solely responsible for. Knowing what I do about Lucchino u doubt any of those decisions didn't heavily involve his input and approval.

[a700hitter]

Given the discussion around Tito leaving and him apparently expressing questions about his own ability to keep doing it in this setting, I suspect any desire this FO has to see Theo move on is based on how "burned-out" he is appearing. I think that's what Henry is referring to. I work in a field with lots of burnout. It is well understood that people simply get tired of fighting the same fights over and over and over again.

 

If they hire Charrington that tells me they liked Theo's approach. If they go in a completely different direction that tells me thy had serious concerns about Theos abilities.

 

Henry was very clear in the interview that all major decisions are a collaborative process. Meaning Crawford, Lackey, Dice-k, are not decisions they hold Theo solely responsible for. Knowing what I do about Lucchino u doubt any of those decisions didn't heavily involve his input and approval.

Charrington will get the job as interim would be my guess. There were a lot of things that JH did not like about the way the organization was being run. He seems pissed about the conditioning programs and the injuries. Wasn't that also Theo's responsibility. He mentioned not making the playoffs in 3 of the last 6 years. He is not a happy camper.

[a700hitter]

Based on the embarrassment that Theo caused me after changing my custom user title to "Theo Channels Me," I have changed it to something more appropriate. Theo's problem was that he didn't channel me enough.

[SoxSport]

From the gist of what they were saying about keeping interview requests from other teams in-house,

I wouldn't be surprised if Epstein has already been given permission to interview the Cubs--and maybe has already been interviewed. They could be working on negotiations right now. It makes sense because they need to get this out of the way before they get to the manager. That means they need a GM fast--most likely Cherington, since he was at the first media conference.

 

They have to keep the GM and manager issues under wraps until something actually happens, or else you will have the media tail wagging the dog. Remember the ARod soap opera. It can get out of hand.

[example1]

Charrington will get the job as interim would be my guess. There were a lot of things that JH did not like about the way the organization was being run. He seems pissed about the conditioning programs and the injuries. Wasn't that also Theo's responsibility. He mentioned not making the playoffs in 3 of the last 6 years. He is not a happy camper.

 

Its his responsibility if the guy under him isnt doing it. Sadly it appears that there wasnt time to turn it around when the whole thing came crashing down. I heard from an unnamed source that Theo, upon identifying conditioning as a major concern, immediately started a boot camp at 5am at Fenway but that wasn't until September 2nd. It was too late. I know how you feel about unnamed sources, and I might be making the whole thing up any way.

 

It is thoroughly within the responsibility set of the coaching staff to make sure the players are in game shape. I don't expect any GM of an organization of professionals to assume anything other than that the players are in optimal shape according to the coaches. Just like with all other clubs the primary approach a GM can take if things arent being handled responsibly is to replace the manager. I believe that search is underway.

[example1]

Charrington will get the job as interim would be my guess.

 

Also, according to the many guys on WEEI who spoke about it the last few days, Charrington would be a top candidate for the job itself and is widely seen as the next most obvious GM in the league either in Boston or elsewhere.

[FredLynn]

Also' date=' according to the many guys on WEEI who spoke about it the last few days, Charrington would be a top candidate for the job itself and is widely seen as the next most obvious GM in the league either in Boston or elsewhere.[/quote']

 

Isn't it "Cherington"?

The first step is getting rid of Epstein by hook or by crook. Then his successor can be hired. Until Epstein leaves improvement cannot be started. He is a terrible judge of FA talent. I would favor someone from outside the organization. Beane or Friedman would be excellent choices if we could pry them loose. If not, someone trained by one of those two would work too.

[VA Sox Fan]

Isn't it "Cherington"?

The first step is getting rid of Epstein by hook or by crook. Then his successor can be hired. Until Epstein leaves improvement cannot be started. He is a terrible judge of FA talent. I would favor someone from outside the organization. Beane or Friedman would be excellent choices if we could pry them loose. If not, someone trained by one of those two would work too.

 

Yes it is.

[a700hitter]

Was Theo Epstein in Chicago yesterday?

October 9, 2011 01:05 PM

 

By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff

 

The Chicago Tribune has an eyewitness who claims that Theo Epstein was in Chicago yesterday.

 

In a fun detail, the man spotted in Chicago picked up a banana. Maybe that will go with the gorilla suit he wears to sneak out of Fenway Park for the last time.

 

Was Theo Epstein in Chicago on Saturday to interview with Cubs?

Posted by Scott Lauber at 8:00 am

 

ARLINGTON, Texas — It’s 8 a.m. Sunday. Do you know where your GM is?

 

One day after Red Sox principal owner John Henry and president Larry Lucchino refused to divulge whether the club has granted permission for the Chicago Cubs to interview Theo Epstein, a report in Sunday’s Chicago Tribune suggests Epstein may have been in the Windy City on Saturday.

 

According to the report, lifelong Cubs fan Noah Pinzur is “99.9 percent sure” he spoke to Epstein at a Starbucks in Lincoln Park. When Pinzur asked the customer if he was Epstein, the man replied, “No. I get that a lot,” before adding “Who’s Theo Epstein?”

 

“Once he had to ask me who ‘Theo Epstein’ was, I knew it was him,” Pinzur told the Tribune. “It was clearly him being driven in the direction of Wrigley Field.”

 

Epstein is believed to be at the top of the Cubs’ list in their search for a new GM, and rumors about his interest in leaving for Chicago have persisted and gone undenied since late August. Epstein has been the Red Sox’ GM since 2003 and has one season remaining on his contract. Neither Henry nor Lucchino have been willing to discuss Epstein’s future, citing privacy issues. But during a radio interview Friday on WEEI, Henry at least left open the possibility that Epstein may be on his way out.

 

“I think there’s a certain shelf life in these jobs,” Henry said. “You can only be the mangaer, the general manager, if you’re sane, for a certain amount of time. It’s a pressure-cooker here. It’s a long season. It’s 365 days. Theo is not going to b the general manager forever.”

[SoxSport]

Did I hit the nail on the head about Epstein already being interviewed in private?

 

My favorite song, by the way, is "Witchcraft".

[iortiz]

Yes, he is the next.

 

Is Lackey the next?

[Divinity]

Imagine if Theo fired Quade and hired Tito as the Cubs manager.