2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I'm very capable of determining that I do simultaneously like the internet and dislike this thread. For every nugget of good information/discussion there were twelve posts of s***. Over thousands of posts that's some good information' date=' but also tons of s***. We can do better.[/quote']

 

I agree. It seems that when someone is itching for a fight or showing someone up, they feel they have to do it in the public forum of the message board. I think it would be so much better if all the "Prove I said that", "Show me where I did/said this..", and name calling posts were handled in private messages rather than going on and on for pages in the public forum. I know that is too much to ask for, because it will never happen. I come here to read and learn about my beloved Sox and to read some interesting opinions about them that are from a different angle than I may have been thinking. However, being on the internet means showing everyone you are right or "The Boss" so these threads will continue to contain acres of crap.

[Elktonnick]

Getting back to baseball, I for one was very heartened by the news coming out of Florida yesterday. The fact that Ortiz took it upon himself to address the team is good news. Pedroia's interview with Lou Merloni yesterday was also a positve sign. It appears that both have decided to step up and exercise some leadership in the clubhouse and that can only be seen as a good thing. I also like BV's spring training regime. I know its only the first days of spring training but hope is what spring training is all about.

[Bellhorn04]

Getting back to baseball' date=' I for one was very heartened by the news coming out of Florida yesterday. The fact that Ortiz took it upon himself to address the team is good news. Pedroia's interview with Lou Merloni yesterday was also a positve sign. It appears that both have decided to step up and exercise some leadership in the clubhouse and that can only be seen as a good thing. I also like BV's spring training regime. I know its only the first days of spring training but hope is what spring training is all about.[/quote']

 

Agreed...there have been a number of positive signs.

[a700hitter]

LL on the Scutaro trade:

 

We traded Scutaro for a bunch of reasons. It was a baseball operations-inspired idea. They made an assessment that we could get the same quality of performance by different deployment at shortstop, and that that money could be used better to strengthen a couple of other areas. It was a combination of baseball operations evaluation of the productivity of the position and an eagerness to have more payroll flexibility at that moment so that they could go out and bring in some missing pieces.

Yes, salary dumping your starting shortstop is always a good baseball move. Shaughnessy called LL's attempt to sell the Scutaro trade as a baseball move "a whopper."

[Emmz]

This basically ends speculation that Ben had more payroll to work with, and was just choosing to be cheap on his own. Not that there was much substance to that argument anyways.

[jung]

For every nugget of good information/discussion there were twelve posts of s***. Over thousands of posts that's some good information, but also tons of s***. We can do better.

 

Well that is hard to argue with. The only problem is that at least as far as forums go, one comes with the other with the amount of "s***" really only being a matter of degrees. Much like our 1st Amendment rights....you take the good with the bad and "hope" there is more good than bad since attempting to control it by "rule" tends to be the worst thing that happens to a message board.

 

It is a one way communication tool and until we perfect our writing skills to the point where everything we write is entirely understood the way we intended it to be, this sort of stuff will always happen to a message board.

 

If the degrees of s*** appear excessive here I think it has more to do with people taking themselves to seriously or at least taking their opinions on a message board to seriously. It is not like what we post here has an impact on outcomes. Nobody is going to go out and get an extra base hit because one of us posted something suggesting a particular outcome.

 

I always find posts about one's stature on a message board humorous. Some of them are intentionally humorous. The ones that aren't really make you wonder.

 

At any rate, our long, laborious season of discontent is behind us as there is the smell of glove leather in the air. Pretty soon we will be able to argue about lineups and in-game decisions and all sorts of stuff that can be.......well......actually somewhat more contentious than the stuff we have been arguing about. Oh well.

[jopete19]

What pisses me off is that Ortiz received way to much money. Ellsbury only got 8 mill and Ortiz got 14!? You can't tell me Ortiz is more valuable than Ellsbury, but I'll take it. anyway the sox can save money is good.

[jung]

This basically ends speculation that Ben had more payroll to work with, and was just choosing to be cheap on his own. Not that there was much substance to that argument anyways.

 

I am actually glad LL dropped that nugget although you are right. Few of us thought that decision was more than what it was. Most of us just did not think it made much sense.

 

I still wonder how these guys (LL and JH) conclude they should ever open their mouths in front of a camera, microphone or pad and pencil. They would both do so much better to just shut the heck up. In LL's case he can't seem to remember which lie he is on this week. JH just can't control his emotions. I guess a skinny little guy with barely a muscle anywhere can't just go and take it out on a heavy bag. Heavy bag might bounce back at him and knock him into the cheap seats.

[a700hitter]

I am actually glad LL dropped that nugget although you are right. Few of us thought that decision was more than what it was. Most of us just did not think it made much sense.

 

I still wonder how these guys (LL and JH) conclude they should ever open their mouths in front of a camera, microphone or pad and pencil. They would both do so much better to just shut the heck up. In LL's case he can't seem to remember which lie he is on this week. JH just can't control his emotions. I guess a skinny little guy with barely a muscle anywhere can't just go and take it out on a heavy bag. Heavy bag might bounce back at him and knock him into the cheap seats.

He'd break his hand hitting a heavy bag. The speed bag would knock him out.

[seabeachfred]

I have a suggestion friends....I don't know who erases topics but EX1 started this one about the Off Season. There has been a lot of heat generated from it and a few hard feelings. Think maybe EX1 or someone else could delete this thread once and for all so we put the controversy and 2011 as far back in our rear view mirror as we can. Besides, doesn't hope spring eternal during Spring Training. Maybe someone can start a ST thread where we can weigh in our our team's prospects and chances and most likely see more upbeat comments. Just a suggestion.

[jung]

Deleting threads is a bad idea in all honesty. In fact it is a very bad idea. I won't post more than that on the topic but did not want such a suggestion to go unchallenged.

[example1]

No, best not to erase the thread. It, like all the other threads in this website, will disappear into the history pages soon enough. Just like the 2006-2007 offseason page.

[Bellhorn04]

What pisses me off is that Ortiz received way to much money. Ellsbury only got 8 mill and Ortiz got 14!? You can't tell me Ortiz is more valuable than Ellsbury' date=' but I'll take it. anyway the sox can save money is good.[/quote']

 

If Ellsbury keeps his level of play close to what it was last year, there is a Crawford-type payday in his not too distant future.

[a700hitter]

Twins' Zumaya to miss another year with elbow tear

 

FORT MYERS, Fla.—Minnesota reliever Joel Zumaya has a torn ligament in his right elbow and will miss the entire season, the latest setback for the hard thrower who has been plagued by injuries since 2006.

 

Zumaya had signed an incentive-laden, one-year deal with the Twins, who hoped he could bolster their bullpen with his 100 mph heat.

 

"I took a risk. It was a high risk with high reward," Twins general manager Terry Ryan said Sunday after an MRI exam revealed the torn ulnar collateral ligament. "Unfortunately it didn't work. And he feels bad. I feel bad."

 

Zumaya had not thrown a pitch since June 2010 after breaking his elbow while pitching for Detroit in a game at Target Field.

 

He worked out for several teams this winter, and the Twins offered him $850,000. The contract is only guaranteed for $400,000.

 

Zumaya lasted just 13 pitches in his first session of live batting practice Saturday before walking off the mound with pain in his elbow. Ryan spoke with him on Sunday after they received the news, but said it was too early to talk about Zumaya's plans for the future.

 

The 27-year-old could choose to have Tommy John surgery and start another exhaustive rehab program. Or he could choose to retire.

 

"He's distraught, as you'd expect," Ryan said. "He's going to come in here in the next day or so and we're going to talk about the immediate future for him."

 

Zumaya had only been in the clubhouse for a couple of weeks, but he'd already managed to make a strong impression with the team. He pitched against the Twins for the Tigers and manager Ron Gardenhire said he quickly grew to like the heavily tattooed reliever who electrified Detroit's run to the World Series as a rookie in 2006.

 

"He looks like some monster out there pitching against you," Gardenhire said. "But you get him in your clubhouse and you realize there's special people and he's a special person and it's a really sad day for him and his family and our baseball team, too, because we were all hoping this guy would be able to get back on this thing and make it through. Unfortunately it didn't work out."

I took notice of Terry Ryan's quote bolded above. He said: "I took a risk. It was a high risk with high reward." That is the proper characterization of a low cost- long shot. He clearly has an understanding of investment risks and and rewards unlike the History major that ran the Red Sox who constantly and incorrectly referred to dumpster diving as low risk- high reward.

[jung]

Feel bad for JZ. I can just imagine what breaking your arm throwing a baseball must have felt like for one thing. Damage must have been ugly.

[Emmz]

I took notice of Terry Ryan's quote bolded above. He said: "I took a risk. It was a high risk with high reward." That is the proper characterization of a low cost- long shot. He clearly has an understanding of investment risks and and rewards unlike the History major that ran the Red Sox who constantly and incorrectly referred to dumpster diving as low risk- high reward.

 

Well I think you're confusing injury risk with monetary risk.

[seabeachfred]

Feel bad for JZ. I can just imagine what breaking your arm throwing a baseball must have felt like for one thing. Damage must have been ugly.

 

I can feel for Zumaya as well; hell of a way for his season to end. It me to thinking that I don't want to see anything of that nature in print about a Red Sox player going on the shelf because of that kind or any kind of injury. We've had our fill of them the past three seasons.

[a700hitter]

Well I think you're confusing injury risk with monetary risk.

I'm not confusing anything, and neither is Terry Ryan.

[Emmz]

I'm not confusing anything' date=' and neither is Terry Ryan.[/quote']

 

There's not just one type of risk you take on when signing a player. There's monetary (low cost in this place) injury (high risk for injury, without a doubt) and if its a major league deal, then it gets to be a performance risk. You're pretty much only accounting for the injury whenever you comment on the subject. In this case the injury risk was so high that it was definitely a high risk deal.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not confusing anything' date=' and neither is Terry Ryan.[/quote']

 

I agree with Emmz. The dumpster dives have a high risk of failure, but a low risk of financial damage. Is that not a fair statement?

[jung]

Although this injury is not the broken arm for JZ maybe they are related. I know there is at least one other major league pitcher that broke his arm throwing but for the life of me I cannot remember who it is.

[Emmz]

And you're right, Ryan always knows what he's talking about. He's the best GM I've ever seen, despite no WS to show for it. Bill Smith ruined a powerhouse. No one plays moneyball as good as Ryan.

[Emmz]

I agree with Emmz. The dumpster dives have a high risk of failure' date=' but a low risk of financial damage. Is that not a fair statement?[/quote']

 

Exactly, you can't just go by injury or performance risk. All risks have to be weighed before you say someone's a high risk.

[BSN07]

Although this injury is not the broken arm for JZ maybe they are related. I know there is at least one other major league pitcher that broke his arm throwing but for the life of me I cannot remember who it is.

 

Tim Browning I think. He was a pitching for the Reds when it happened. Didn't Viola do it as well? Browning I'm fairly sure. Viola I might be misremebering lol

[jung]

Thanks "7"

[a700hitter]

I agree with Emmz. The dumpster dives have a high risk of failure' date=' but a low risk of financial damage. Is that not a fair statement?[/quote']I've explained this on numerous threads before. Terry Ryan has it right. Theo had it wrong.

[Emmz]

I've explained this on numerous threads before. Terry Ryan has it right. Theo had it wrong.

 

Now you're just putting your head in the sand.

[a700hitter]

Now you're just putting your head in the sand.

You've seen the explanations in the threads. You are just trolling now.

[Emmz]

You've seen the explanations in the threads. You are just trolling now.

 

How is it that when I disagree with you, its trolling? I raised a legit point and you disagree while refusing to add to the discussion. Just saying, don't call me a troll because you found someone to back up your claim from months ago that the risk is about the injury.

[a700hitter]

How is it that when I disagree with you' date=' its trolling? I raised a legit point and you disagree while refusing to add to the discussion. Just saying, don't call me a troll because you found someone to back up your claim from months ago that the risk is about the injury.[/quote']The risk is about performance as it always is with an asset. If you were legitimately not trolling, I apologize. You have been here a long time, so I had assumed that you had participated in one of the many threads where I debated this misnomer of "low risk/high reward". Research the threads. I'm not interested in going through it again. Terry Ryan is correct in his characterization. What he has said is 180 degrees from what Theo used to say. One of them has to be wrong. I've always debated the point that Theo was wrong. If anyone thinks Terry Ryan is wrong, post your reasons.