2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

I love the homo eroticism in the room, but i don't see any comments about the B/R ranking with the Red Sox in the top 10?

 

Anyone?

[Elktonnick]

Mr Howard chimes in.............yawwwwwwwwwwwwwn.

 

Since Mr Howard posts have nothing to do with baseball I have put him on my ignore list.

[FredLynn]

Since Mr Howard posts have nothing to do with baseball I have put him on my ignore list.

 

If there is anything Mr Howard really hates, its being ignored.

Wonder how long he will last here before returning to STFU....hmmm.

[FredLynn]

I love the homo eroticism in the room, but i don't see any comments about the B/R ranking with the Red Sox in the top 10?

 

Anyone?

 

Posted earlier:

 

Sure. I already mentioned that one source has them at #10. Another, from ESPN, places them at #18.

[Elktonnick]

If there is anything Mr Howard really hates, its being ignored.

Wonder how long he will last here before returning to STFU....hmmm.

 

You know of course that "Mr Howard" was the alias Jesse James used.

[User Name]

Posted earlier:

 

Sure. I already mentioned that one source has them at #10. Another, from ESPN, places them at #18.

 

So, B/R has them 10 and 12, Sickels has them 11, Law (your ESPN source) has them 18, but posts the caveat that the system is full of talent, but lacks "impact-now" players and expects the ranking to improve as players jump levels (this is important).

 

One thing to note here, is that your friends' bully tactics are both unwelcome and ineffective.

 

I would like to continue this discussion, but potshots at my intelligence will be responded in kind.

[FredLynn]

So, B/R has them 10 and 12, Sickels has them 11, Law (your ESPN source) has them 18, but posts the caveat that the system is full of talent, but lacks "impact-now" players and expects the ranking to improve as players jump levels (this is important).

 

One thing to note here, is that your friends' bully tactics are both unwelcome and ineffective.

 

I would like to continue this discussion, but potshots at my intelligence will be responded in kind.

 

I don't blame you. You have the right to defend yourself. I am not in control of what my friends write. I have enough trouble writing my own stuff.

Here is another way to look at this. Lets grade them like a term paper. The top team gets 100%. Because there are 100 points and 30 teams, each place you go down in ranking gets about three points deducted. If we are at #12 we get a grade of 64%. At #18 we are below average at 46%.

Lets face it: while we may have a lot of guys with potential, because the lack of highly rated prospects we do not have an exceptional farm system. I didn't make this stuff up. If you think otherwise, you find rankings that are better than 10.

[FredLynn]

You know of course that "Mr Howard" was the alias Jesse James used.

 

I did not know that.

[User Name]

I don't blame you. You have the right to defend yourself. I am not in control of what my friends write. I have enough trouble writing my own stuff.

Here is another way to look at this. Lets grade them like a term paper. The top team gets 100%. Because there are 100 points and 30 teams, each place you go down in ranking gets about three points deducted. If we are at #12 we get a grade of 64%. At #18 we are below average at 46%.

Lets face it: while we may have a lot of guys with potential, because the lack of highly rated prospects we do not have an exceptional farm system. I didn't make this stuff up. If you think otherwise, you find rankings that are better than 10.

 

The problem with using the "current" rankings is that they are not based on the actual talent level of the farm system alone, but rather the amount of "impact-now" prospects they own. The basis for this discussion was the lack of talent to pull off trades without top guys, but Sickels' and Law's assessment dispels that notion.

 

The problem here isn't the amount of talent in the system, it's the time it will take to reach the Majors. But that doesn't mean that type of talent is not coveted by other teams.

 

Look at the Mark Teixeira trade: The "ready-now" piece was Salty, but the near-deal breaker was Neftali Feliz, with the other important part being Andrus. Texas coveted those two, even though they were far-off prospects with the "potential" tag on them, and look at how that turned out.

 

I have never flat-out said that they're upper echelon. What i have disputed is that the farm is mediocre. There is a significant amount of low-level but high ceiling talent that other teams would find appealing.

[FredLynn]

The problem with using the "current" rankings is that they are not based on the actual talent level of the farm system alone, but rather the amount of "impact-now" prospects they own. The basis for this discussion was the lack of talent to pull off trades without top guys, but Sickels' and Law's assessment dispels that notion.

 

The problem here isn't the amount of talent in the system, it's the time it will take to reach the Majors. But that doesn't mean that type of talent is not coveted by other teams.

 

Look at the Mark Teixeira trade: The "ready-now" piece was Salty, but the near-deal breaker was Neftali Feliz, with the other important part being Andrus. Texas coveted those two, even though they were far-off prospects with the "potential" tag on them, and look at how that turned out.

 

I have never flat-out said that they're upper echelon. What i have disputed is that the farm is mediocre. There is a significant amount of low-level but high ceiling talent that other teams would find appealing.

 

How do you know that? I assume that the rankings take into account ALL the talent in the farm system.Do you have a reference for your claim?

I think that when you rank farm systems, there are the following categories: upper eschelon, middle of the pack, and lower eschelon.

Hopefully the guys with potential will develop and help the team in 2-3 years. In the meantime, we have to make do.

[User Name]

How do you know that? I assume that the rankings take into account ALL the talent in the farm system.Do you have a reference for your claim?

I think that when you rank farm systems, there are the following categories: upper eschelon, middle of the pack, and lower eschelon.

Hopefully the guys with potential will develop and help the team in 2-3 years. In the meantime, we have to make do.

 

It's what Law said: "Keith Law ranked the Sox as having the 18th best farm system in the league, saying that the Red Sox are very thin at the top of the minor league chain due to the amount that the organization has spent on amateur players."

 

Regardless of actual ceiling, they usually take higher-level guys as more valuable than a lower-level guy which could be regarded as more talented and a better prospect.

 

To illustrate this, Law has Middlebrooks as the Sox' top prospect, while some of the publications that have the Sox at a higher levels usually have Bogaerts or Jacobs as ranked higher than him.

[FredLynn]

It's what Law said: "Keith Law ranked the Sox as having the 18th best farm system in the league, saying that the Red Sox are very thin at the top of the minor league chain due to the amount that the organization has spent on amateur players."

 

Regardless of actual ceiling, they usually take higher-level guys as more valuable than a lower-level guy which could be regarded as more talented and a better prospect.

 

To illustrate this, Law has Middlebrooks as the Sox' top prospect, while some of the publications that have the Sox at a higher levels usually have Bogaerts or Jacobs as ranked higher than him.

 

The "higher level guys" have proven themselves at a higher level. By then many of the Middlebrooks type prospects have been weeded out. By the time you make it successfully to AAA you should be considered valuable enough to your team to raise its ranking.

[User Name]

The "higher level guys" have proven themselves at a higher level. By then many of the Middlebrooks type prospects have been weeded out. By the time you make it successfully to AAA you should be considered valuable enough to your team to raise its ranking.

 

That's the point. It isn't always necessarily that way.

 

Several talent evaluators consider Bogaerts (just out of A) as a more valuable prospect than Middlebrooks (At AAA). A lot of the time it's a ceiling issue. And a lot of the times, they're right when picking Guy A at A with a ceiling of A+ over guy B on the verge of making the Majors with a ceiling of B.

[mvp 78]

Keith Law: Lars Andersen 7th best prospect overall in 2008

 

We still have him!

[FredLynn]

Keith Law: Lars Andersen 7th best prospect overall in 2008

 

We still have him!

 

I thought it was Bowden.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is what pisses me off about Law. He completely throws talent out the window and looks at numbers. The guy says he's a scout, but scouts dont make such stupid, assinine decisions on players that are obviously inaccurate just by looking at the players. Case in point, he said that Ravel Santana, the Yankee minor leaguer, was going to miss the whole season in 2012. Well, the guy is nearly restriction free IN FEBRUARY. If he did his homework and actually followed up on the kid, he'd have seen that he's almost completely recovered and is already sprinting. It makes him look stupid. Also, I think Middlebrooks is a good player, but Bogaerts is WAY WAY better than him in the prospect circle.

 

Bogaerts will be 19 for the entire 2012 season. Middlebrooks will be 23 for the whole season.

They both OPS'd the same, but Bogaerts hit more HR's per AB and had the better eye. Middlebrooks made his hay with doubles. Bogaerts right now is a middle infield prospect (although nobody really expects him to stay at SS) while Middlebrooks is at 3rd. Bogaerts has the potential to be a middle of the order hitter. He dominated long season A ball at 18, something you see out of talents like Montero, Cabrera, Guerrero etc. He's got a real bat. And he has 4 more yrs on Middlebrooks in terms of developing. Without any sort of catastrophic mental or physical collapse, Bogaerts will be the better player. I just dont get how the hell he is ranked lower in anyone's rankings

[Muggah]

Keith Law: Lars Andersen 7th best prospect overall in 2008

 

We still have him!

 

And we most likely always will, thanks to Blunder's incompetence.

[Dojji]

And we most likely always will' date=' thanks to Blunder's incompetence.[/quote']

 

I'd say your schtick is getting old, but it was born old.

[Muggah]

I'd say your schtick is getting old' date=' but it was born old.[/quote']

 

If you're using a picture of Francona to represent yourself, it'd probably be a good rule of thumb not to go picking fights with other posters.

[ibot2much]

If you're using a picture of Francona to represent yourself' date=' it'd probably be a good rule of thumb not to go picking fights with other posters.[/quote']

 

Why? I don't get the relationship between the two things.

[Dojji]

If you're using a picture of Francona to represent yourself' date=' it'd probably be a good rule of thumb not to go picking fights with other posters.[/quote']

 

Tell you what troll, how about you actually bring something to a discussion other than negativism and nastiness and then we can talk. You're one dimensional and your act is getting stale. It will not take long at this point before you've outstayed your welcome here. There's no rule that requires someone who doesn't think the team is good to be as overbearingly rude about it as you have been. But that whole reasonable disagreement thing, that's just not your game is it?

 

Take that as you will, it's none of my concern, but if you want to be here for awhile, you might want to give some thought to building bridges rather than burning them.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Easy Dojji, they're "realist". Forget them, let them talk. When the season starts they'll shut the hell up.

[FredLynn]

This is what pisses me off about Law. He completely throws talent out the window and looks at numbers. The guy says he's a scout, but scouts dont make such stupid, assinine decisions on players that are obviously inaccurate just by looking at the players. Case in point, he said that Ravel Santana, the Yankee minor leaguer, was going to miss the whole season in 2012. Well, the guy is nearly restriction free IN FEBRUARY. If he did his homework and actually followed up on the kid, he'd have seen that he's almost completely recovered and is already sprinting. It makes him look stupid. Also, I think Middlebrooks is a good player, but Bogaerts is WAY WAY better than him in the prospect circle.

 

Bogaerts will be 19 for the entire 2012 season. Middlebrooks will be 23 for the whole season.

They both OPS'd the same, but Bogaerts hit more HR's per AB and had the better eye. Middlebrooks made his hay with doubles. Bogaerts right now is a middle infield prospect (although nobody really expects him to stay at SS) while Middlebrooks is at 3rd. Bogaerts has the potential to be a middle of the order hitter. He dominated long season A ball at 18, something you see out of talents like Montero, Cabrera, Guerrero etc. He's got a real bat. And he has 4 more yrs on Middlebrooks in terms of developing. Without any sort of catastrophic mental or physical collapse, Bogaerts will be the better player. I just dont get how the hell he is ranked lower in anyone's rankings

 

Bogaerts could end up better than Middlebrooks, but he is only in A ball right now. He has potential. Many with potential fall out after reaching their own level of incompetence. I would take a guy with good numbers in AAA ball over a guy with great numbers in A ball any day.

[Muggah]

Tell you what troll, how about you actually bring something to a discussion other than negativism and nastiness and then we can talk. You're one dimensional and your act is getting stale. It will not take long at this point before you've outstayed your welcome here. There's no rule that requires someone who doesn't think the team is good to be as overbearingly rude about it as you have been. But that whole reasonable disagreement thing, that's just not your game is it?

 

Take that as you will, it's none of my concern, but if you want to be here for awhile, you might want to give some thought to building bridges rather than burning them.

 

You're right about one thing. It's none of your concern. Do everyone a favor and leave it at that.

[FredLynn]

Easy Dojji' date=' they're "realist". Forget them, let them talk. When the season starts they'll shut the hell up.[/quote']

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think so, eh?

Here's a hint: we aren't going anywhere.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think so, eh?

Here's a hint: we aren't going anywhere.

 

HAHAHAHAHA...shut the f*** up hypocrite. You constantly complain about me talking s*** and tell everyone to ignore me. Then you always have something to say to me. Why is it whenever I talk to one of your butt buddies you jump in? I sure as hell don't want to talk to you. If I did, I would have quoted you.

[BornToRun]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think so, eh?

Here's a hint: we aren't going anywhere.

Well that's a shame. You and everyone on this site like you are simple minded idiots who have no right calling yourselves red sox fans. You're all pathetic jackasses who make all of us look bad, just go f*** off to whatever s*** ridden hole you and the rest of your ilk crawled out of.

[ibot2much]

I do not understand why too many people here are either totally black or totally white in their RS opinion. Last year, they were golden and nothing could stop them......well something did.

 

Why can't it be that they are a promising team with WEAKNESSES and STRENGTHS?? That is the only logical way to look at them so the continuous attacks on each other are just ridiculous

[jacksonianmarch]

Bogaerts could end up better than Middlebrooks' date=' but he is only in A ball right now. He has potential. Many with potential fall out after reaching their own level of incompetence. I would take a guy with good numbers in AAA ball over a guy with great numbers in A ball any day.[/quote']

 

You don't see too many 18 yr olds dominate long season A ball like Bogaerts did. Take a look at Middlebrooks, it took him until 2011 to really break out, and when he was in long season A, he was 20 and sucked. You can see pitchers fizzle out due to injury and loss of mechanics, but you dont see too many offensive players who did what he did and show the tools that he showed fizzle out in the minors. If anything, they typically continue to dominate the minors and struggle on the big stage

[FredLynn]

HAHAHAHAHA...shut the f*** up hypocrite. You constantly complain about me talking s*** and tell everyone to ignore me. Then you always have something to say to me. Why is it whenever I talk to one of your butt buddies you jump in? I sure as hell don't want to talk to you. If I did' date=' I would have quoted you.[/quote']

 

HAHAHAHA

You are a joke. An immature teenage moron who thinks he can bully anyone he likes here. Guess what: you can't. Neither Muggah nor I tolerate internet bullies like you. We will continue to deal with you in any way we see fit, at any time we see fit, and we will do so disregarding your directives to "shut the f up". Get it?