2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[jung]

So much for Darvish talk. I never thought they would take a shot at him. Still think that if they make anything that looks like a major move this off season it will be a trade offing salary to take salary.

[Spitball]

Quentin? I don't want him. Cuddyer? It doesn't seem like we are in the running for him. I don't know who might be under the radar.

 

Of the free agents, I see only Beltran and Cuddyer as worthy outfielders remaining on the market....and they will probably be overpaid.

 

I like Cuddyer because he can play third in a pinch, but have a feeling the Sox are willing to go with Kalish or Reddick. If they spend the money saved on improving the pitching, I'd accept one or both of the youngsters in right.

[a700hitter]

Of the free agents, I see only Beltran and Cuddyer as worthy outfielders remaining on the market....and they will probably be overpaid.

 

I like Cuddyer because he can play third in a pinch, but have a feeling the Sox are willing to go with Kalish or Reddick. If they spend the money saved on improving the pitching, I'd accept one or both of the youngsters in right.

They still need a RH bat in the OF. They can't have 4 left handed OFers.

[Meh]

I don't think it works like that. The rights to the player go back to his team and he will need to post again in later years, according to Wiki.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system#Process

 

Nope darvish can complain, say you make him a 4 mill for 5 year offer. That's not competitive so the league office can strip your bid and give it to second highest

[Spitball]

They still need a RH bat in the OF. They can't have 4 left handed OFers.

 

Kalish or Reddick will probably be packaged for pitching, but there isn't much out there to add right handed hitting to the outfield.

[Spitball]

Kalish or Reddick will probably be packaged for pitching' date=' but there isn't much out there to add right handed hitting to the outfield.[/quote']

 

Maybe Reed Johnson or Matt Diaz will be available.

[example1]

I can't complain about the acquisitions they made today. A decent veteran who doesn't get injured all the time to replace Lowrie and an under-the-radar reliever who could be the closer in a pinch, or can be a setup guy pretty easily. He's also cost-controlled and fairly young.

 

Pretty much the type of move that I expected while half the board was assuming that Ben was sitting on his hands doing absolutely nothing.

 

Now I see a700 writing "something else must be brewing". Nick Punto and Mark Melancon makes you suddenly confident in Cherington actually doing his job to the best of his ability? He actually wants this team to be good? Huh, what a concept! I'm shocked by those developments, like the rest of you undoubtedly are. Just kidding, of course.

[a700hitter]

Maybe Reed Johnson or Matt Diaz will be available.

I like Diaz.

[a700hitter]

I can't complain about the acquisitions they made today. A decent veteran who doesn't get injured all the time to replace Lowrie and an under-the-radar reliever who could be the closer in a pinch, or can be a setup guy pretty easily. He's also cost-controlled and fairly young.

 

Pretty much the type of move that I expected while half the board was assuming that Ben was sitting on his hands doing absolutely nothing.

 

Now I see a700 writing "something else must be brewing". Nick Punto and Mark Melancon makes you suddenly confident in Cherington actually doing his job to the best of his ability? He actually wants this team to be good? Huh, what a concept! I'm shocked by those developments, like the rest of you undoubtedly are. Just kidding, of course.

I didn't say that I was confident that anything good was brewing, just that something is brewing. If BC can build a good bullpen (something Theo could never do), the team should be in good shape. Right now, he has about 1/3 of a pen. He's got some building to do. I never questioned that BC would do the job to the best of his ability, but i did question his ability.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't say that I was confident that anything good was brewing' date=' just that something is brewing. If BC can build a good bullpen ([b']something Theo could never do[/b]), the team should be in good shape. Right now, he has about 1/3 of a pen. He's got some building to do. I never questioned that BC would do the job to the best of his ability, but i did question his ability.

 

C'mon now. The Red Sox had the best bullpen in the league in 2007 and were close to the top in 2004, 2008 and 2009.

[SoxSport]

Notice how the Yankees snuck in there and bid on Darvish--while Henry is focussed on soccer.

 

The Red Sox GM will have to get creative this year, and earn his pay--unlike his predecessor.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yep, if the league thinks you are bidding to keep him away from other teams and dont have a genuine interest in signing the player you bid on, then the bid is stripped and it goes to the next highest payer

[jacksonianmarch]

SS, the Yanks made a bid. We'll see if it is competitive enough to win. My guess is it wont be. I think Cash is waiting for a big trade alot like last yr. If it doesnt fall into his lap, he's okay with waiting

[SoxFanForsyth]

Are you serious??

 

Are we really still talking about the ownership being "focused on soccer"??

 

Come on man. They went out and bought Carl Crawford and traded and resigned Adrian Gonzalez last year. Give me a break.

 

Don't make excuses. If they haven't made a move yet, it's because they haven't found one that makes sense. It's not because they aren't paying attention to baseball.

[Muggah]

Of the free agents, I see only Beltran and Cuddyer as worthy outfielders remaining on the market....and they will probably be overpaid.

 

I like Cuddyer because he can play third in a pinch, but have a feeling the Sox are willing to go with Kalish or Reddick. If they spend the money saved on improving the pitching, I'd accept one or both of the youngsters in right.

 

From the looks of things I think you're right. It looks like they're going to go into ST with Reddick and Kalsih for RF. Too bad, too, we need a RHH bat.

[a700hitter]

C'mon now. The Red Sox had the best bullpen in the league in 2007 and were close to the top in 2004' date=' 2008 and 2009.[/quote']Even the most ardent Theo fans acknowledge that he did not do a great job at building bullpens from year to year or reinforcing them during the year. Certainly, Theo was never in a position where he had to completely build the bullpen from the ground up in one off season. It's a lot easier for the GM when you start off with the closer spot locked down with Papelbon from year to year, and over the last 3 seasons he went into the off season with the closer and 8th inning spots locked down with studs--Papelbon and Bard. That's a nice start, yet he screwed it up in over the last 2 seasons. If Cherries can build a good bullpen for 2012 he will deserve a lot of credit. Starting off a pen with Jenks, Albers and Miller presents him with quite an uphill battle.

[Dojji]

I don't know what big moves you guys are expecting. Love it or hate it, our core is locked in for the most part. We have a very heavy commitment in the roster, it doesn't come as a shock that the team is trying to build around the edges rather than try to add a big piece. It's not like adding big pieces last offseason turned the team into a huge winner, maybe these supplimental talents are more important than folks are giving them credit for.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, the deal is that you have holes at critical spots on the roster. Your #4 and #5 starters are who? Bard and Aceves? Okay, they are major, major questionmarks. And your setup man and closer are who? Jenks coming off a PE and back surgery and Melancon, who is coming off a good season in the NL Central? And after your 1-5, who are your contingencies? Andrew Miller? Your farm system is not good enough to fill in on the pitching side of things should that back end crumble or god forbid, one of your top three go down with injury.

[Dojji]

The 4 and 5 spots in the rotation shouldn't be locked down by people making 8 figure salaries. As it is those positions are only open because of injuries to Lackey and Daisuke who are walking violations to that cardinal rule. Those spots should be held open for viable young pitching, but since we haven't seen a young pitcher we haven't wanted to trade for one last feeble grasp at the Series at any point in the last 5 years that's going to be a problem.

 

Frankly, Lester, Beckett and Buchholz should be a good enough top 3 to keep us relevant even if we have trouble filling the bottom 2 spots anyhow. But since Lackey and Daisuke are eating the money you need for your bottom 2 rotation spots without returning any significant value, I'm not sure what you expect them to do.

 

Realistically what the team should do, from purely a roster standpoint, is punt for multiple seasons, start letting some contracts run out and trying to improve their batting average at the draft. This team has been running the roster like it's one big piece away from another Series ever since 2007, and it's not sustainable. You can see the signs of wear pretty easily in the farm system right now, looking around at just how little high end talent we have in the upper minors anymore. What little we have always goes out to finding that one last piece, so it'll never get any better either. And we all pretend that we can afford to part with any one prospect because it's just a rookie after all, meanwhile we once again sign expensive veterans to fill that spot and bog down the roster even further.

 

This will not get better until we accept the fact that we have an aging core and need to rebuild it. It's that or continue to delude ourselves year after year and wait until the crash comes in earnest, and wind up where the Mets are, or even worse, where the Astros are.

 

We need to pull back for awhile, possibly as much as half a decade or more, and really rebuild the team from the ground up. It won't happen though. Too much money at stake.

[jacksonianmarch]

You never, ever, ever give two spots in your rotation out of the offseason to rookies. We did it in 2008 and it was the only yr in recent memory that we didnt make the postseason. I am all for having the #5 spot be an open competition, but in this day and age, you must go into the season with 4 veteran starters if you plan on winning in the AL East.

 

The other issue I have with the sox is that they have no big league ready prospects capable of pitching for you in 2012. Your depth is laughable and without locking down the last 2 spots, you might run into the same issues you ran into in 2011. Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, pray for rain, pray for rain again, pray none of the top 3 get hurt again

[seabeachfred]

Of the free agents, I see only Beltran and Cuddyer as worthy outfielders remaining on the market....and they will probably be overpaid.

 

I like Cuddyer because he can play third in a pinch, but have a feeling the Sox are willing to go with Kalish or Reddick. If they spend the money saved on improving the pitching, I'd accept one or both of the youngsters in right.

 

Cuddyer would be ideal for the Red Sox. We are too damn lefthanded and it seems like there are more and more left handed pitchers coming into the American League every year. To have a lineup dominated by lefties in a park tailormade for right handed hitters is ridiculous. Cuddyer eats lefties alive, is very versatile and would give our lineup some real balance. I just can't believe the Red Sox have become that damned cheap.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Dojji' date=' the deal is that you have holes at critical spots on the roster. Your #4 and #5 starters are who? Bard and Aceves? [b']Okay, they are major, major questionmarks.[/b] And your setup man and closer are who? Jenks coming off a PE and back surgery and Melancon, who is coming off a good season in the NL Central? And after your 1-5, who are your contingencies? Andrew Miller? Your farm system is not good enough to fill in on the pitching side of things should that back end crumble or god forbid, one of your top three go down with injury.

 

I'm sorry - I hardly consider Aceves a question mark in terms of SP. he threw 114 last season to a 2.61 ERA, and in September, when you would expect his arm or legs to start to tremble and for him to become less effective, he threw to a 1.80 ERA.

 

Come on man. Aceves as a #4 starter is very encouraging. I would much, much rather have Aceves as my number 4 over Lackey or DiceK. Or Colon, or Garcia, or Burnett, or Hughes.

 

So saying he's a question mark is an absolute joke. And saying he's a major, major question mark is about as much of a homer comment as you can get.

 

Bard, fine - he's a question mark if he's a starter. But if the Sox go out and sign Joe Saunders and Roy Oswalt/Hideki Kurodo, and retain Felix Doubront and Tazawa, and now all of a sudden they've got:

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Oswalt/Kurodo

Aceves/Saunders

 

Saunders/Aceves

Doubront

Tazawa

Miller

 

That's 2 signings, and then they have a back end of the rotation of Aceves - Melancon - Bard, which is a solid 8th-9th inning duo. Get a little aggressive and trade for Bailey, and all of a sudden this team's pitching staff is very solid and pretty deep.

 

Say what you will, but they're really only 2 moves away from having a good looking pitching staff.

[Muggah]

Cuddyer would be ideal for the Red Sox. We are too damn lefthanded and it seems like there are more and more left handed pitchers coming into the American League every year. To have a lineup dominated by lefties in a park tailormade for right handed hitters is ridiculous. Cuddyer eats lefties alive' date=' is very versatile and would give our lineup some real balance. I just can't believe the Red Sox have become that damned cheap.[/quote']

 

As we discussed on the other site, Fred, a lot of this points to Henry looking to sell the team over the next couple years. Everything points to it. They're operating on the cheap so they can leave the new owners with as few remaining contracts as possible. In the meantime they're just going to hope Valentine can catch lightening in a bottle while they find a buyer.

 

And that's fine with me. The fire in the belly to win has long since gone out with this ownership group. We'd be a lot better off with new, more committed ownership.

[NativeBostonian]

I'm sorry - I hardly consider Aceves a question mark in terms of SP. he threw 114 last season to a 2.61 ERA, and in September, when you would expect his arm or legs to start to tremble and for him to become less effective, he threw to a 1.80 ERA.

 

Come on man. Aceves as a #4 starter is very encouraging. I would much, much rather have Aceves as my number 4 over Lackey or DiceK. Or Colon, or Garcia, or Burnett, or Hughes.

 

So saying he's a question mark is an absolute joke. And saying he's a major, major question mark is about as much of a homer comment as you can get.

 

Bard, fine - he's a question mark if he's a starter. But if the Sox go out and sign Joe Saunders and Roy Oswalt/Hideki Kurodo, and retain Felix Doubront and Tazawa, and now all of a sudden they've got:

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

Oswalt/Kurodo

Aceves/Saunders

 

Saunders/Aceves

Doubront

Tazawa

Miller

 

That's 2 signings, and then they have a back end of the rotation of Aceves - Melancon - Bard, which is a solid 8th-9th inning duo. Get a little aggressive and trade for Bailey, and all of a sudden this team's pitching staff is very solid and pretty deep.

 

Say what you will, but they're really only 2 moves away from having a good looking pitching staff.

 

I agree with you. Aceves is far from being a question mark as a starter. He did have a lot of long relief showings during last season, which he have shown that he was dominating the apposing batters. The only one that has the question mark when it comes to becoming a starter is going to be Bard. Although he has one strong arm, IMO he doesn't have the complementary pitch to go along with that fast ball and that might hurt him if you put him into the starting role.

[Soxfan1]

The D'Backs have moved on from Saunders, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com

[User Name]

As we discussed on the other site, Fred, a lot of this points to Henry looking to sell the team over the next couple years. Everything points to it. They're operating on the cheap so they can leave the new owners with as few remaining contracts as possible. In the meantime they're just going to hope Valentine can catch lightening in a bottle while they find a buyer.

 

And that's fine with me. The fire in the belly to win has long since gone out with this ownership group. We'd be a lot better off with new, more committed ownership.

 

A 180 million ballclub is operating on the cheap? Do you even see what you're saying?

 

Also, is there a chance there is actually something in this universe Fred doesn't bitch about?

[Bellhorn04]

As we discussed on the other site, Fred, a lot of this points to Henry looking to sell the team over the next couple years. Everything points to it. They're operating on the cheap so they can leave the new owners with as few remaining contracts as possible. In the meantime they're just going to hope Valentine can catch lightening in a bottle while they find a buyer.

 

And that's fine with me. The fire in the belly to win has long since gone out with this ownership group. We'd be a lot better off with new, more committed ownership.

 

Yep, the Crawford signing and the Gonzalez trade/extension certainly demonstrated the cheapness and lack of commitment. Some people might say 300 million on 2 contracts shows some commitment. Good for you for seeing through all that.

[Emmz]

A 180 million ballclub is operating on the cheap? Do you even see what you're saying?

 

Also, is there a chance there is actually something in this universe Fred doesn't bitch about?

 

This. I laughed just because you can't take a comment like that seriously. Just the whole post in general.

[Muggah]

A 180 million ballclub is operating on the cheap? Do you even see what you're saying?

 

Also, is there a chance there is actually something in this universe Fred doesn't bitch about?

 

 

Fred, I'm sure, will speak for himself, but for as long as I've known him there are several things he doesn't bitch about--two prominent ones being: first---Red Sox teams that play smart, hard-nosed baseball, and second; FO executives who competently do their jobs.

 

Unfortunately, neither of the two currently apply to our beloved franchise.

[Muggah]

Yep' date=' the Crawford signing and the Gonzalez trade/extension certainly demonstrated the cheapness and lack of commitment. Some people might say 300 million on 2 contracts shows some commitment. Good for you for seeing through all that. [/quote']

 

If stopping at the half-way point in assembling a playoff caliber team is your idea of commitment, then you obviously must be thrilled right now about our chances next year. It's complacent pollyanna thinking like yours that allows this crap to continue.