2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[VA Sox Fan]

Did you Google what year Berle died?

 

March 22, 2002. RIP.

[a700hitter]

Who the f*** is Milton Berle' date=' you old farts.[/quote']This is probably more appropriate for the discussion in the recent Derek Jeter thread. Uncle Milty was an old time comedian who in addition to being accused of stealing most of his material was rumored to be the biggest star in ShowBiz;). They all hung out (pardon the pun) at Toot Shors restaurant. There was another guy whose name escapes me that was also rumored to be a very big star too. Jackie Gleason wanted to take bets on who was the biggest, so he called Uncle Milty to his table and told him about the bet and that Gleason wanted it settled right then and there. Berle was tremendously offended and started to walk away. With that Gleason bellowed, "come on Milty, just take out enough to win." Berle never talked to Gleason again. For a comedian, he was way too serious.

[a700hitter]

You are the self-proclaimed "know it all" I honestly thought you thought you coined "dumpster diving" sorry.

Would you like to also Google whether I am a self-proclaimed know-it-all or whether someone else proclaimed it first. Maybe Gammons was the first to call me a know-it-all.

[redsoxfan3]

Red Sox Acquire Melancon For Lowrie, Weiland

 

By Tim Dierkes [December 14 at 10:33am CST]

 

The Red Sox acquired reliever Mark Melancon from the Astros for shortstop Jed Lowrie and starter Kyle Weiland, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. ESPN's Jerry Crasnick first tweeted that Weiland was traded in a deal that involved a reliever going to Boston.

 

Weiland, 25, struggled in 24 2/3 innings in his Red Sox debut this year. At Triple-A, he posted a 3.58 ERA, 8.8 K/9, 3.9 BB/9, and 0.70 HR/9 in 128 1/3 innings. A third-round pick in 2008, Baseball America ranked Weiland 20th among Red Sox prospects prior to the season. BA says the former Notre Dame closer "relishes pitching inside" and his "best pitch is a low-90s fastball that peaks at 95 but is most notable for its hard sink."

 

Not sure if this was posted already.

[a700hitter]

Not sure if this was posted already.

This is an under the radar move. I am not even sure that Melancon has more upside as a reliever than Weiland who was a closer in college, plus we just lost some bench depth in the IF.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow.

 

I am not impressed by this move at all.

 

Hopefully this means the Sox are saving their chips for Gio because Bailey was costing too much.

 

Mark Melancon. Awesome. I'd rather have kept Lowrie (who crushes LHP) and Weiland (who probably will end up being as good as or better than Melancon).

[MNSoxChief102]

This is an under the radar move. I am not even sure that Melancon has more upside as a reliever than Weiland who was a closer in college' date=' plus we just lost some bench depth in the IF.[/quote']

 

Meh... Weiland was garbage last year. No better than a middle innings reliever IMO. Lowrie has the ability to hit, but only when he's healthy, which isn't often.

 

Melencon had a solid season last year, throws heat, and should help stabilize the bullpen. I doubt this is the end of our maneuvers on that front either.

[Meh]

This is an under the radar move. I am not even sure that Melancon has more upside as a reliever than Weiland who was a closer in college' date=' plus we just lost some bench depth in the IF.[/quote']

 

Melancon used to pitch for the Yankees. I liked him, but his stuff didn't seem to play up in the AL yet alone AL east. Im stilll a fan cause he signed a ball for me tho. Nice guy, but he's the type who should pitch in the NL

[a700hitter]

Wow.

 

I am not impressed by this move at all.

 

Hopefully this means the Sox are saving their chips for Gio because Bailey was costing too much.

 

Mark Melancon. Awesome. I'd rather have kept Lowrie (who crushes LHP) and Weiland (who probably will end up being as good as or better than Melancon).

I feel exactly the same way about this.

[redsoxfan3]

This is an under the radar move. I am not even sure that Melancon has more upside as a reliever than Weiland who was a closer in college' date=' plus we just lost some bench depth in the IF.[/quote']

 

Is this guy going to be our closer? That is what I am trying to figure out. He had 20 saves last year for the Astros, with a 2.78 ERA, and a 1.224 WHIP. I am assuming since they gave up both Lowrie and Weiland that they are planning on him being our closer. If we had to give up two guys, Weiland and Lowrie are two guys I don't mind giving up. Scutaro is our SS next year. Lowrie and Aviles were virtually the same player, but Lowrie is injury prone. Weiland was garbage last year. I know that he could still develop into a decent major league starting pitcher with more time, but I am not too worried about losing him. I just don't know if those two are worth Melancon, I guess time will tell.

[a700hitter]

I though Weiland and Lowrie were chips that could be used in a bigger deal to net a better return.

 

Melancon has a good record against the phillies-- the NL Gold standard, so maybe he is emerging.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I cannot believe that Cherington just threw out SP depth for this guy. I mean I really cannot believe it.

 

Whats worse - This could mean the return of Wakefield. NOOOO!!!!!!!!

[MNSoxChief102]

Melancon's 2011 stats:

 

8-4, 74.1 IP, 66 K, 26 BB, 3.21 ERA, 20 SV

 

Not spectacular, but not horrible either. We traded away a pitcher that has little to no upside as a starter, and utility infielder that's made of glass to get him. Can't really ask for much more.

[MNSoxChief102]

I doubt he'll be the full time closer. Really see him as a solid BP piece that can setup and occasionally close games when need be.

 

Other thing to remember is we have him under control for 5 years. Not easy to find quality arms for the pen with that kind of contract situation.

[Meh]

[quote=MNSoxChief102;715162;)Melencon throws heat)

 

Wtf melancon threw 92-93 when he was on the yankees. I believe he even dialed that down so he could get more control too.

[a700hitter]

I am glad that we finally have something to discuss. He should be a solid bullpen arm. I'm not sure if he is closer material. So far our pen is shaping up as:

 

Malancon

Jenks

Albers

Morales

[redsoxfan3]

Melancon's 2011 stats:

 

8-4, 74.1 IP, 66 K, 26 BB, 3.21 ERA, 20 SV

 

Not spectacular, but not horrible either. We traded away a pitcher that has little to no upside as a starter, and utility infielder that's made of glass to get him. Can't really ask for much more.

 

He had a 2.78 ERA in 2011. The 3.21 is his career ERA. I could see this guy as emerging.

 

a700hitter- I agree with you on that one. I was hoping for a better deal than Melancon and these were two guys that were decent trade bait.

[MNSoxChief102]

 

Wtf melancon threw 92-93 when he was on the yankees. I believe he even dialed that down so he could get more control too.

 

Just going off what I've heard... reports were that he's a hard throwing guy.

 

Apparently, not so much. Thanks for the clarification.

[redsoxfan3]

I cannot believe that Cherington just threw out SP depth for this guy. I mean I really cannot believe it.

 

Whats worse - This could mean the return of Wakefield. NOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, we threw out Weiland, he was great SP depth for us. Weiland was garbage last year. He still could develop into a decent pitcher, but he was nothing but miserable for us last year. I don't want depth that is unreliable.

[Meh]

Just going off what I've heard... reports were that he's a hard throwing guy.

 

Apparently, not so much. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Im just going by watching him In 2010. Do I hate the move? No. Lowries going to be hurt and weiland was nothing.

[redsoxfan3]

I doubt he'll be the full time closer. Really see him as a solid BP piece that can setup and occasionally close games when need be.

 

Other thing to remember is we have him under control for 5 years. Not easy to find quality arms for the pen with that kind of contract situation.

 

I wouldn't doubt that at all. He closed 20 games for the Astros last year and had a decent ERA. I wouldn't be surprised if they made this move so Bard can go to the rotation and so he can be our closer. I am not saying he will be our closer, it just makes sense with what is happening at this point in the offseason. He could be a solid set-up man, and if anything like others have said, he will be at the minimum a good addition to our pen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Melancon had 4 pitches in the Yankee minor league system. He had a 4 seamer around 93 that topped out at 96, he has a 2 seamer that had a lot of movement in the low 90s, he had a wipeout slider and a developing changeup. When he got to NY, he couldnt control his FB and he struggled with the big stage. He went to Houston, focused on FB command in low pressure and the rest took care of itself. He's a good player with closer potential. It just depends on whether he can flourish in this environment the second time around.

[Meh]

I just remember him complaing the Yankees didn't use him right. I did agree with that tho cause they used him as a mop up guy but he was a rookie and the Yankees don't just give you pressure spots and when they did he always s*** the bed bad. Like Jackson said he struggled hard with the big stage. Whe he was with the Yankees and on TV he was 92-93, I do remember him touching 95 but not 96 and with little to no control haha. I still say its a good deal for the Sox unless Melancon is your closer. He'd be a nice 7th inning guy, IMO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yes' date=' we threw out Weiland, he was great SP depth for us. Weiland was garbage last year. He still could develop into a decent pitcher, but he was nothing but miserable for us last year. I don't want depth that is unreliable.[/quote']

 

First off, reliability comes with experience. Weiland had about 3/4 of a season in AAA. If we started him in AAA again this year, he could have developed into an effective pitcher.

 

And second off, if a pitcher is reliable, he is in a starting rotation somewhere.

 

Entirely too many people expect to have a SP rotation of Ace, Ace, Ace, #2, #3, #4, #4, #4, #4. That's not how it works.

[SCM33]

As long as hes not the closer Im ok with it.

 

So far though, we have replaced Bard in the bullpen with Melancon since Bard is in the rotation.

 

We still another another BP arm to replace the hole of Aceves moving to the rotation and we still need a closer.

 

If this kid is the closer, I am going to be ******** about it.

 

Scary comparison....look at Ramon Ramirez's numbers the year before Boston acquired him and compare them to Melancons numbers from last year.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Jim Bowden speculates on a Red Sox/A's trade involving Gio Gonzalez

 

Now that the winter meetings are over, there’s a tendency to think that trade and free agency activity will downshift into a more sedate pace. However, here are five blockbuster trades I'd like to see that not only would be beneficial to both teams but also would kick the offseason back into overdrive.

 

Trade 1: Boston Red Sox and Oakland Athletics

Red Sox acquire: LHP Gio Gonzalez

A's acquire: 3B Will Middlebrooks, RHP Anthony Ranaudo, OF Ryan Kalish

 

The Red Sox would acquire one of the best young left-handed starters in the 26-year-old Gonzalez who went 16-12 last year with a 3.12 ERA thanks to one of the best curveballs in the league. The Athletics get their long-term solution at third base in Will Middlebrooks, who posted an .865 OPS last year for Double-A Pawtucket and would be the key to the deal for them. Ranaudo struck out almost a man per inning in his minor league debut and has some upside, while Kalish is a throw-in who will give the A's some help off the bench. The deal would improve the Red Sox’s rotation enough to give them one of the best in the AL along with the Los Angeles Angels, Detroit Tigers and Tampa Bay Rays.

 

WMB, Ranaudo, AND Kalish?!?! Yikes. I don't know if I'm good with that. First off, I would hate to have to give up WMB in any trade. Second, I would hate to have to giev up Kalish in any trade. And I would absolutely not dish Kalish AND WMB for one player.

 

If I had to make the deal, I'd go WMB, Ranaudo, and maybe Reddick.

[SoxSport]

Melancon's 2011 stats:

 

8-4, 74.1 IP, 66 K, 26 BB, 3.21 ERA, 20 SV

 

Not spectacular, but not horrible either. We traded away a pitcher that has little to no upside as a starter, and utility infielder that's made of glass to get him. Can't really ask for much more.

 

If the kid had double digit wins, he'd be untouchable.

 

Looks like he's getting better. Madson had some crappy years until he developed a changeup.

[SoxFanForsyth]

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman

nick punto agrees to #redsox deal

 

Ugh. Worst day ever.

[redsoxrules]

WTH ? Nick Punto for 3.5 MIL .

 

FFS Ben

[iortiz]

Jim Bowden speculates on a Red Sox/A's trade involving Gio Gonzalez

 

 

 

WMB, Ranaudo, AND Kalish?!?! Yikes. I don't know if I'm good with that. First off, I would hate to have to give up WMB in any trade. Second, I would hate to have to giev up Kalish in any trade. And I would absolutely not dish Kalish AND WMB for one player.

 

If I had to make the deal, I'd go WMB, Ranaudo, and maybe Reddick.

 

I'm not sure about this either, but I don't see A's expecting less. If this is going to be trade, maybe and just maybe they are thinking in land Beltran too.

 

If that were the case, next season could sound encouraging after all.

 

Beckett

Lester

Buck

Gio

Bard

 

BP

 

Melancon

Aceves

Morales

Albers

Doubront

Jenks

Miller

 

Ells

Peddy

Gonzalez

Beltran

Youk

Ortiz

Salty

Scutaro

Crawford

 

Backups

 

Aviles, Reddick, Punto, Shoppach.

 

Not bad huh?, but the BP still is a concern to me and still missing a couple of depth arms.

 

It's imminent they will likely go over the LT threshold, so... This is my forecast.