9/14 vs TOR (Day Game)

[SoxSport]

The amazing thing is when a pitcher goes sour , like Bard, Tito lacks the judgement or creativity to try somebody else. He just keeps trotting Bard out there. Where is Wheeler? Oh, I see, he isn't THE setup guy.

 

Now you know what's wrong. They don't play as a TEAM. That's Tito's fault.

[DwightFright]

At Least the Sox are letting their fans down easy. Now we know that even if this team backs into the playoffs, it is going nowhere. We won't even be surprised if they are swept out quickly. Ho hum...<_>

[a700hitter]

True, the organization needs a shakeup it won't get if they make the playoffs.

 

As a team, they are underachieving. That's always a management problem.

Some new blood is needed. It is time for some changes. As an organization, the Yankees are deeper in talent at every level. Maybe I'm believing their hype, but Montero certainly looks like a prime time hitter, far better than Lavarnway. Their minor league pitching is much deeper than ours too. Let Theo take the Cubs job.

[a700hitter]

The amazing thing is when a pitcher goes sour , like Bard, Tito lacks the judgement or creativity to try somebody else. He just keeps trotting Bard out there. Where is Wheeler? Oh, I see, he isn't THE setup guy.

 

Now you know what's wrong. They don't play as a TEAM. That's Tito's fault.

Game management has never been Tito's strength. That's more like his nap time. He needs a stacked team where it doesn't matter what buttons he pushes during the game.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Game management has never been Tito's strength. That's more like his nap time. He needs a stacked team where it doesn't matter what buttons he pushes during the game.

 

By the 7th inning, Francona is up to his eyeballs in Double Bubble wrappers, so he can't see the game. That's why he's so bad at managing the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

By the 7th inning' date=' Francona is up to his eyeballs in Double Bubble wrappers, so he can't see the game. That's why he's so bad at managing the bullpen.[/quote']He was much more alert and mentally sharp when he chewed tobacco. Ballplayers didn't chew that vile garbage for the taste.

[SoxFanForsyth]

He was much more alert and mentally sharp when he chewed tobacco. Ballplayers didn't chew that vile garbage for the taste.

 

Francona still chews tobacco. He does what a ton of ballplayers do. Chews the double bubble, then wraps the chew with the gum. It actually makes the chew taste a lot better.

[a700hitter]

Francona still chews tobacco. He does what a ton of ballplayers do. Chews the double bubble' date=' then wraps the chew with the gum. It actually makes the chew taste a lot better.[/quote']I am pretty sure that I read a few years back that he went cold turkey and gave it up. You don't see him spitting much. If he gave it up, he needs to take it up again to jump start his bran.

[SoxSport]

Game management has never been Tito's strength. That's more like his nap time. He needs a stacked team where it doesn't matter what buttons he pushes during the game.

 

Nice to see there are other observant people out there. You see this prevailing view in other Red Sox groups, too. But the media won't touch anything like this. They judge a manager strictly on wins-losses.

 

Some of us remember Tito when he was with the Phillies. He's only as good as the team he manages. He adds nothing except good will with the players--and the media. And he has learned how to survive in an organization.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I am pretty sure that I read a few years back that he went cold turkey and gave it up. You don't see him spitting much. If he gave it up' date=' he needs to take it up again to jump start his bran.[/quote']

 

Maybe he did? I don't know. This season, I've seen him multiple times wrapping his gum around something in the dugout, though. Maybe it's just more gum. But I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it was chew.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Nice to see there are other observant people out there. You see this prevailing view in other Red Sox groups, too. But the media won't touch anything like this. They judge a manager strictly on wins-losses.

 

Some of us remember Tito when he was with the Phillies. He's only as good as the team he manages. He adds nothing except good will with the players--and the media. And he has learned how to survive in an organization.

 

Exactly. This is why Joe Maddon and Kirk Gibson are both far and away better managers than Francona IMO. They both get every drop of blood out of each one of their players.

 

Maddon seems like he's always making the right moves for the bullpen. He doesn't let a LOOGY go up against a RHH. Francona seems a whole lot more lazy. Where Maddon will change pitchers every other hitter, Francona rolls the dice and gives the matchup favor to the other team.

 

If Maddon and Francona swapped jobs, the Sox would be 12-14 games up on the Rays right now.

[iortiz]

Game management has never been Tito's strength. That's more like his nap time. He needs a stacked team where it doesn't matter what buttons he pushes during the game.

 

Some new blood is needed. It is time for some changes. As an organization' date=' the Yankees are deeper in talent at every level. Maybe I'm believing their hype, but Montero certainly looks like a prime time hitter, far better than Lavarnway. Their minor league pitching is much deeper than ours too. Let Theo take the Cubs job.[/quote']

 

+1

 

As I said tons of time here, his abilities at the FA are horrible, you can pile a bunch of names out there. Let Theo and Tito go. They have completed a nice cycle in Boston.

[SoxFanForsyth]

+1

 

As I said tons of time here, his abilities at the FA are horrible, you can pile a bunch of names out there. Let Theo and Tito go. They have completed a nice cycle in Boston.

 

So you want to get rid of Theo because he made a couple bad FA signings?

 

Lackey, Renteria, Lugo, DiceK, Jenks, Smoltz, Cameron were bad FA signings.

 

But his drafting has netted us so much more. I would never trade better FA signings for worse drafting. Look what he's gotten us.

 

Gonzalez (via trade of drafted prospects)

Beckett (via trade of drafted prospects)

Pedroia

Ellsbury

Lester

Buchholz

Bard

Papelbon

V. Martinez (via trade of drafted prospects)

 

I would never trade the players that Theo has developed for a better version of the FA signings that busted.

[iortiz]

So you want to get rid of Theo because he made a couple bad FA signings? and management skills' date=' among other[/b']

 

Lackey, Renteria, Lugo, DiceK, Jenks, Smoltz, Cameron! Jenks, Miller, and Crawford is on a thin ice. I wonder how much money represent those players, and what is the ROI/NPV/IRR impact in an overall financial business case and judgement. Seems unfavorable to me and by far. But it is just me. were bad FA signings.

 

But his drafting has netted us so much more. I would never trade better FA signings for worse drafting. Look what he's gotten us.

 

Gonzalez (via trade of drafted prospects)

Beckett (via trade of drafted prospects)

Pedroia

Ellsbury

Lester

Buchholz

Bard

Papelbon

V. Martinez (via trade of drafted prospects) God knows how much we miss Masterson these days.

 

Something good is expected to be achieved at least, isn't it?

 

I would never trade the players that Theo has developed for a better version of the FA signings that busted.

 

Fixed.

[Palodios]

Fixed.

 

Seriously man, what more do you think the ownership group could ask from Theo? Sure, you can complain all day about not winning a world series, but he's made them plenty of money, and has prepared this team to make the ownership group lots of money in the future. Whether or not they win the world series... business is good.

[a700hitter]

Seriously man' date=' what more do you think the ownership group could ask from Theo? Sure, you can complain all day about not winning a world series, but he's made them plenty of money, and has prepared this team to make the ownership group lots of money in the future. Whether or not they win the world series... business is good.[/quote']He's done a good job overall. He has certain strengths and weaknesses, and the strengths probably outweigh the weaknesses. He's been in the job for 9 years. I think it is time to bring in some new blood.

[Palodios]

He's done a good job overall. He has certain strengths and weaknesses' date=' and the strengths probably outweigh the weaknesses. He's been in the job for 9 years. I think it is time to bring in some new blood.[/quote']

 

I have no problem with your argument, but to say Theo is not making this organization money is just plain ignorant

[a700hitter]

I have no problem with your argument' date=' but to say Theo is not making this organization money is just plain ignorant[/quote']

I never said that.

[Palodios]

I never said that.

 

I had no problem with your argument-- I was referring to iortiz.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

@ iOrtiz- How is Crawford on thin ice? Contract is 7 years and we haven't even finished one.

[iortiz]

I have no problem with your argument' date=' but to say Theo is not making this organization money is just plain ignorant[/quote']

 

Please, take away my ignorance.

 

What is the EBITDA of the Boston Red Sox?

 

EDIT: Trust me, the accurate data ain't in Google.

[iortiz]

Quote me where I posted that and still waiting his EBITDA contribution.

 

Since the beginning I've been saying that I don't have their financial statement or the minimal expected Theo's KPIs in order to emit a REAL and ACCURATE judgement. (as you seem to have, since you always take everything for granted)

 

You can't evaluate and judge a good/bad business plan without results/outcome. You just can't do that. Otherwise you were talking just about "Good/Bad Intentions", but definitely not a good/bad business plan at all. Good business plans are always supported with financial results.

 

With the very few elements that we have, I'd presume a couple of things (Outside In analysis)

 

You say that he planned well our Rotation's depth. This team is the 20th and 25th ERA and QS in all baseball with plenty access to the money, more? since his "good business plan" he has in jeopardy this team to make the playoffs or go early once there = loss revenue/profit

 

At the FA his failure goes beyond. Let me put some names and numbers there.

 

Lackey 84 MUSD

Renteria 8 MUSD

Lugo 26.7 MUS

DiceK 100 MUSD

Jenks 12 MUSD

Smoltz 5.5 MUSD

Cameron 7.7 MUSD

Jenks 12 MUSD

Crawford 142 MUSD; you already ate 14 MUSD for a -0.2 WAR thus far.

 

If CC (unlikely, even though you already ate 14 MUSD for terrible results) and Lackey (likely) continue performing like they have performed, Theo would've thrown to the trash can 397 f***ing MUSD.

 

If that is a good business plan, and you really believe that crap, the ignorant is somebody else.

 

I would like to see Theo Epstein manage an organization like KC or TB where the abundance is null.

[iortiz]

@ iOrtiz- How is Crawford on thin ice? Contract is 7 years and we haven't even finished one.

 

True, but you already ate 14 MUSD for -.2 WAR.

 

If he still this way (unlikely), another failure would be charged to Theo.

[BornToRun]

There needs to be a rule where that's counted as an out, ******** run.

[Palodios]

Fenway park has been sold out how many years with Theo? The Red Sox have been incredibly profitable with him at the helm. Case closed.

[BornToRun]

True, but you already ate 14 MUSD for -.2 WAR.

 

If he still this way (unlikely), another failure would be charged to Theo.

 

1 year, we signed him for 7. This is the 1st time he's struggled like this in his career, be patient.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Come on man. Can you guys talk about this later? It's annoying as hell when you comment on a different GT during a game.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Fenway park has been sold out how many years with Theo? The Red Sox have been incredibly profitable with him at the helm. Case closed.

 

The sold out streak isn't even a legit arguement in this case. Come on.

 

Put Theo in any other organization than Sox or Yankees and he'd be a bust. The man is overrated as a GM, outside of his drafting, and drafting is a crapshoot anyway.

[iortiz]

Fenway park has been sold out how many years with Theo? The Red Sox have been incredibly profitable with him at the helm. Case closed.

 

Really? What is Theo's margin contribution?

 

Poor argument.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Can we get a mod to lock this thread please?