Saltalamacchia starting to tear it up

[SCM33]

EDIT:

 

deleted my post, I mis-read other posts in the thread.

[SoxSport]

I don't know when the Elias catcher rankings came out--probably earlier in the season--

but they sure do look silly now, ranking Martin class A, Santana class B and Salty unranked.

 

I would put Salty ahead of the other 2 right now.

[Emmz]

I've been watching him for three months for dozens of games' date=' play in a crucial position for my team. I would rather admit to being wrong, and move forward, than being stubborn and dislike him based on how much he sucked in April. And in all fairness, he was dirt in April.[/quote']

 

You jumped ship to the Salty Rules side IMMEDIATELY following the start of his hot streak you little hypocrite. I hate to discredit you solely on how fickle you are, but that's a very quick change in position. Maybe if we get Elijah Dukes and he heats up for a few weeks we can jump on the Elijah Dukes isn't a bust wagon, seeing as he's got such good AAA stats and other totally substantial stuff like that.

 

All I ever said was that he's not going to produce the way you guys seem to think. Considering you guys only started supporting him during his hot-streak pretty much says is all for how weak your argument really is.

 

You think your argument is so rock-solid because you kept taking my words and pretending to know what they meant more than I did. I didn't change anything, I was saying the same thing the whole time, that he could hit .750 OPS, he could be a decent backstop, and overall an above average catcher. However, I said not to get your hopes up because of his hot streak, he's not going to have .900 OPS or .550 SLG%. You decided to turn that into "you're calling his season as a whole a fluke", when I very clearly said that I thought he was capable of .750, possibly a little more OPS. I didn't say anything was unsustainable other than his high SLG% during his hot streak, which I explained on the last page.

 

If you're going to pretend you're right in an argument, you should just do so ignorantly, instead of trying to twist people's words and other crap like that, even though they told you several times that you were taking me out of context. You're not very tough when you're not trying to overwhelm with word twisting and spin tactics. In fact, your argument is pretty weak overall if you don't take my words and try to spin them how it best benefits your argument.

[Emmz]

I expect him to be a low-to-mid .700 OPS guy with a .250 BA, and look, his season is evening out now.

 

He's a career .245 hitter with .700-.750 OPS, that's all I expect him to be, I think that's all a700 or SCM expects him to be as well, but you guys want to pretend he's a .850 OPS hitter.

 

Christ guys, was it really so hard to go back to the beginning of the discussion to look this stuff up? Was it so hard to try and, you know, get a accurate view of my argument instead of trying to twist my words and jerk me around about how much you know what I'm saying more than I do?

[Dojji]

http://www.fashion-hound.com/files/Image/russel-digging-hole.jpg

[Emmz]

Lol, I was never digging a hole, your lies and word-twisting dug a hole in your own minds. Let Palo defend himself with an actually sound, legitimate argument instead of trying to tell me what the context of my own posts were. All of the quotes I've used in this argument are substantiated with further comments, and are pretty rock solid, that's the difference, I have earlier posts that contradict my supposed hypocrisy, Palo on the other hand has posts of himself bashing Salty for being a piece of junk, AND him admitting that he jumped ship as soon as he got hot.

 

This is pretty much argument-breaking stuff. It's not my fault you guys didn't read my posts, and only picked the spots that support your argument. Either way, I've repeated myself enough in this argument, you guys have ignored it, I'm sure nothing's going to change. Unless you can start making actual points, instead of trying to manipulate my argument against me, I'm going to have to drop out of this one.

[VA Sox Fan]

sigh

 

Agree to disagree folks, it's that simple.

 

Salty has improved. That's a good thing, right?

 

Who knows what the future holds.

 

Y'all were pretty f***ing rude to Emmz. I know she can take it.

 

But for God's Sake.....let it go.

[a700hitter]

It's just ridiculous that people think they know what you mean better than you do.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Lol, I was never digging a hole, your lies and word-twisting dug a hole in your own minds. Let Palo defend himself with an actually sound, legitimate argument instead of trying to tell me what the context of my own posts were. All of the quotes I've used in this argument are substantiated with further comments, and are pretty rock solid, that's the difference, I have earlier posts that contradict my supposed hypocrisy, Palo on the other hand has posts of himself bashing Salty for being a piece of junk, AND him admitting that he jumped ship as soon as he got hot.

 

This is pretty much argument-breaking stuff. It's not my fault you guys didn't read my posts, and only picked the spots that support your argument. Either way, I've repeated myself enough in this argument, you guys have ignored it, I'm sure nothing's going to change. Unless you can start making actual points, instead of trying to manipulate my argument against me, I'm going to have to drop out of this one.

 

Seriously, you say this like every post in every thread someone disagrees with you in. Maybe they did read your posts and disagreed? Damn.

Whats you're point in repeating yourself in this thread 500 times? Ok, you think you're right, you think we don't read your posts, you think everyone was calling him elite. We get it. Maybe you oughta just drop out of this one. We will all keep on supporting him and being satisfied with what he has done while you SCm and a700 can sit around in this thread and whine about him.

[a700hitter]

Seriously, you say this like every post in every thread someone disagrees with you in. Maybe they did read your posts and disagreed? Damn.

Whats you're point in repeating yourself in this thread 500 times? Ok, you think you're right, you think we don't read your posts, you think everyone was calling him elite. We get it. Maybe you oughta just drop out of this one. We will all keep on supporting him and being satisfied with what he has done while you SCm and a700 can sit around in this thread and whine about him.

I don't whine about him. I said that he is adequate, that his defense has improved and that I'll be happy if he hits .250. That's whining? Hit the dictionary.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I don't whine about him. I said that he is adequate' date=' that his defense has improved and that I'll be happy if he hits .250. That's whining? Hit the dictionary.[/quote']

 

You sure did in the past. But fine, I give you credit because you don't whine about him anymore. I shouldn't of used the word whine and blanketed you and Emmz with it seeing as it's mostly SCM.

 

 

What I basically meant by it is the fact that yes, Salty has been adequate, he has improved, that's what I've meant this entire time but people want to push so hard to make it seem otherwise when in fact most of the world is in agreement that Salty has been just fine. Most of us entered this season with low expectations and for most of us he has exceeded that.

[a700hitter]

You sure did in the past. But fine, I give you credit because you don't whine about him anymore. I shouldn't of used the word whine and blanketed you and Emmz with it seeing as it's mostly SCM.

 

 

What I basically meant by it is the fact that yes, Salty has been adequate, he has improved, that's what I've meant this entire time but people want to push so hard to make it seem otherwise when in fact most of the world is in agreement that Salty has been just fine. Most of us entered this season with low expectations and for most of us he has exceeded that.

He has exceeded my expectations.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Good then. He has exceeded mine, and a lot of other's expectations. That's why I don't get the complaining, or the attempts at trying to prove otherwise.

[Emmz]

He's at my expectations *overall*. How many times do I have to say that though before one of you understands that? BPEF, you don't even know what I was talking about. They completely spinned my argument. It's not when people disagree with me, it's when people put words in my mouth, which happens ALL THE TIME on this site. It's always a battle of straw men on this site, especially when SFF is involved, and half of my fights on this site are with him.

 

BPEF, you unknowingly just took what I said out of context. That's the point, which most of you don't seem to understand. When I said "you didn't read my posts, you picked the spots that support your argument", it's pretty clear if you read my post that I'm referring to the spinning of my posts, not whether or not they disagree with me.

 

I've had plenty of arguments where I don't say "you didn't even read my post", unfortunately, there's so few people who actually know how to make a argument on this site without trying to pretend they know what you're saying more than you do. This is called a straw man, when you knowingly alter someone's argument to make it more defeatable. If it's not intentional, it just plain old means you did not read properly.

 

For the past 3 or 4 pages I've unfortunately had to explain this at least 10 times, and even now, it still gets lost.

[Emmz]

Good then. He has exceeded mine' date=' and a lot of other's expectations. That's why I don't get the complaining, or the attempts at trying to prove otherwise.[/quote']

 

I don't complain, I just said that you should enjoy the .900 OPS stuff while it lasts. I agree that he's capable of replicating this season as a whole. I said this very early on, and it just kept going in one ear and right out the other. You have no idea how frustrating this was.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

All in all what I've seen said was his season was a fluke, according to career norms, and that you were completely correct. People tried to tell you that he is still young and is showing progress which could definitely be the case. It boils down to that. But over and over again you kept trying to tell people you were right and they're wrong.

[Emmz]

Hot streak, hot streak, it was always about the hot streak, I said this very early on. You all jumped on the wagon when he got hot, as if he was going to sustain his hot streak, which is BS. During the hot streak, the only thing inflated was his SLG%, and it was inflated by almost 200 points at some times versus his career norms. Thems the facts.

[Emmz]

I expect him to be a low-to-mid .700 OPS guy with a .250 BA, and look, his season is evening out now. I told you, enjoy his hot streak while it lasted, he's not a .850-.900 OPS hitter

 

I said this way back on page 8.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Hot streak' date=' hot streak, it was always about the hot streak, I said this very early on. You all jumped on the wagon when he got hot, as if he was going to sustain his hot streak, which is BS. During the hot streak, the only thing inflated was his SLG%, and it was inflated by almost 200 points at some times versus his career norms. Thems the facts.[/quote']

 

And his BABIP is lower than his career average... so does that mean he could be performing better? Career norms don't mean much(at least to me) if you have only 300 games of big league experience spread out over years due to changing teams a few times, being called up and sent down a bunch, and spending a ton of time on the bench. The hot streak lasted months, and now he has a 2-3 week slump that could end at any time...

[Emmz]

And his BABIP is lower than his career average... so does that mean he could be performing better? Career norms don't mean much(at least to me) if you have only 300 games of big league experience spread out over years due to changing teams a few times' date=' being called up and sent down a bunch, and spending a ton of time on the bench. The hot streak lasted months, and now he has a 2-3 week slump that could end at any time...[/quote']

 

I didn't jump on this thread bc of the slump, I only added to it because someone revived it, and I don't really think he could continue hitting for .900 OPS.

 

All of his numbers are actually overall lower than career averages except for SLG%, what's your point? I've been speaking of his hot streak, he is not a .900 OPS hitter, and those three months were not something he would continue to produce consistently. A 150 point raise in SLG% usually is complimented with a higher OBP or something, which Salty did not have during his hot streak. It was all in his SLG%, that is odd to me, and flukish. This is why I said get back to me when he produces like that for a couple more seasons.

 

As far as the sample size goes, neither is a truly reliable sample size, because those 300 games were spread apart, while those 3 months, well, it's just 3 months of him having a 150 point raise in SLG%. So this is a moot point really.

[Palodios]

You jumped ship to the Salty Rules side IMMEDIATELY following the start of his hot streak you little hypocrite. I hate to discredit you solely on how fickle you are' date=' but that's a very quick change in position. Maybe if we get Elijah Dukes and he heats up for a few weeks we can jump on the Elijah Dukes isn't a bust wagon, seeing as he's got such good AAA stats and other totally substantial stuff like that.[/quote']

 

The first post I had on here that said I'd eat crow was June 19th. So, three months into the season. Big whoop.

 

I am absolutely serious though, you're a good poster, and you're well liked here, by me included, but you have a really terrible way about making things personal, and arguing about semantics rather than the argument. And that's what you did here, constantly contradicting yourself and then lying about it. Really not cool, we can have a good debate without those kinds of tactics. Seriously, do a post search of the term "strawman" on yourself and see how many hundred hits come up, and half the time it isn't actually relevant. It gets old fast.

[Emmz]

The first post I had on here that said I'd eat crow was June 19th. So, three months into the season. Big whoop.

 

I am absolutely serious though, you're a good poster, and you're well liked here, by me included, but you have a really terrible way about making things personal, and arguing about semantics rather than the argument. And that's what you did here, constantly contradicting yourself and then lying about it. Really not cool, we can have a good debate without those kinds of tactics. Seriously, do a post search of the term "strawman" on yourself and see how many hundred hits come up, and half the time it isn't actually relevant. It gets old fast.

 

Then you shouldn't put words into my mouth, which you did. I wouldn't have to argue about semantics if you didn't put words that I never said. It's really a shame, that all those hundreds of times, it is relevant. When you distort someone's argument to make it easier to defeat knowingly, then I'm going to call you out on it. SFF has countless posts trying to make stuff up, just like you did here.

 

Look at the thread, read my posts, you're the one who's full of s*** on this one. You knew full well what I was talking about or you simply chose not to read. You're really sapping my patience on this one, I'm not going to lie.

 

This is very simple: If you're not getting the picture of what I'm actually discussing, then I'm forced to explain this to you. I tried several times, you copied old posts and pasted them without even bothering to do a research on previous statements, effectively taking my words out of context. You do not twist someone's words then tell them to not argue semantics, that's ******** and you know this.

[Emmz]

The first post I had on here that said I'd eat crow was June 19th. So' date=' three months into the season. Big whoop. [/quote']

 

Oh look, he started getting hot three months into the season according to his splits.

[Palodios]

I tried several times' date=' you copied old posts and pasted them without [b']even bothering to do a research [/b]on previous statements, effectively taking my words out of context. You do not twist someone's words then tell them to not argue semantics, that's ******** and you know this.

 

Seriously, I gave you a compliment. Stop making it personal.

 

You have many thousand posts. I am not going to respond to something you said several months back when what you're saying right now is incredibly relevant to what I have to say now. When I tried to discuss a specific argument, like the slug being unsustainable, you completely hid away from actually discussing the topic, and instead turned it personal, and into an analysis of my logic instead of defending your arugment.

 

You said that you don't think he's the answer at catcher, and that his stats are a classic sign of a fluke. I argued that point, and then you replied by saying that that wasn't what you meant, despite me quoting you. If you want to recant a statement, fine, but don't say that "that wasn't what I meant" when based on what you said, by all accounts is a a very explicit statement. It seems that whenever I paraphrase you, in any way beside an absolute word-for-word, you get offended, and whenever I actually quote you, I'm taking it out of context. Defend your statements instead of attacking my terminology.

[Dojji]

Save your breath, Palodios. You're not going to get the last word here, and there's nothing left in terms of a meaningful point to the discussion.

[Emmz]

Because you took me out of context and tried to make a fool out of me, you make it personal, don't even try that s***. This isn't many thousand posts ago, this is 8 pages ago, when this thing started, it's not very hard to take into account my stance before you try and jump me for s*** that I didn't even know I was saying. I did not say his overall SLG% is unsustainable, I felt his SLG% during his hot streak was way over the top. I addressed early on that I felt he was capable of the overall season he's had, which is that of a decent offensive catcher. You did not even listen to this reasoning, you just kept being a pest, you kept putting words into my mouth. You drew first blood, not me.

 

I did say that he is not the answer at catcher, here's why:

 

I would much rather have either a plus defensive catcher or plus offensive catcher, than a slightly above average in both areas catcher. It's the most valuable position, and it's very rare to get above average overall talent at catcher. I am spoiled, and I also do not like inconsistency, which I've stated I'm not so sure if Salty is going to be consistent yet. He was hot for three months and pitiful for 2 months. Overall he was above average offensively for a catcher, but .750 OPS still is not very good overall, only from the catcher position.

 

Also, that inflated SLG%, was a reference to his hot streak that boosted it by 50 points overall above his career norms. The rest of his stats are fine, but like I said, this was always about how everyone jumped on the wagon when he got hot. He was hot for 3 months, and everyone thought he was the real deal, .530 SLG% over those three months essentially, I do not think this is sustainable. And I could easily see his overall SLG% going down unless he has another 3-month hot streak like that next season. This is unless he becomes more consistent.

 

You don't take into account anything other than the sole statement, you just forget the rest of my argument. You need to make a more conscious effort to read people's arguments before you try to attack their positions, and even worse, attempt to make a fool out of them. This is disrespectful, and I will only show respect to your argument if you show respect for mine.

[Emmz]

Save your breath' date=' Palodios. You're not going to get the last word here, and there's nothing left in terms of a meaningful point to the discussion.[/quote']

 

You're not adding anything, so hush.

[SCM33]

You sure did in the past. But fine' date=' I give you credit because you don't whine about him anymore. I shouldn't of used the word whine and blanketed you and Emmz with it seeing as it's mostly SCM.[/quote']

 

If by "whine" you mean that I am realistic about him, then yup. You are right. I am 100% realistic about him.

 

I think you think hes this mythical magical figure, and you probably have his poster hanging in your bedroom, so how dare I insult him right?

 

Hes an average catcher who has produced more than I thought. If anything......I like to throw a jab here and there just for the enjoyment of two or three people freaking out like I shot their dog. Watching people defend a .240 hitting catcher who doesn't get on base and went on a hot streak for 3 weeks is great. Extremely funny and enjoyable actually.

 

Whine, what the F*ck do I honestly care about the dude? Hes a baseball player who plays on a team who we all cheer for. Thats all he is man, he isnt god. Stop taking it so seriously unless you are related to the guy. This is what forums are for. We are still allowed to voice opinions right?

[Dojji]

Definitively proving that the last few weeks were definitely a slump, and not any kind of regression to the mean.

[a700hitter]

After tonight's game, Salty .768 OPS, Martin .760 OPS.

 

Once again, I am not comparing them, because we should have them both and Cervelli should be catching for the Yankees.

 

For those of you who like to compare. There is the up to date comparison.