Crawford Lineup Shuffle?

[MJantomaso]

I am a huge Crawford fan despite his slow start. I feel like he has proven enough to be moved up in the lineup. However, our 1-5 hitters are lights out so far to start the season. Peddy is in a little funk but he needs to remain in the 2 hole regardless. My question is, with our top 5 hitters hitting the way they are...where should CC hit?

 

Me personally, I liked him in the 6 hole. With him sandwiched between Papi and Lowrie he should see some decent pitches to compensate his free swing. I also like Lowrie hitting behind CC because of his XBH ability which puts the scoring from 1st to 3rd into play.

 

Sadly our opinions mean nothing but its something fun to talk about lol.

[iortiz]

I don't know man, 6th? You could waste a huge ability he has: Speed. i mean, in that spot, his possibilities to run the bases and produce Rs could dramatically fall since he will depend on Jed, Drew and Salty mainly, instead A-God, Pedy, Papi and Youk if you give him the 2nd spot, where i would like him to be. I would like this order...

 

1. Ells

2. CC

3. Pedy

4. A-God

5. Youk

6.- Papi

7. Jed

8. Drew

9. Salty

[SCM33]

No, keep him where he is for now.

 

Papi looks really good at 5, and he may take it as an insult to be moved to 6th to move a guy up in the order still hitting under .240. Youkilis, Gonzalez and Ortiz have been absolutely on fire over the last 10 games.

 

Leave them alone.

[iortiz]

No, keep him where he is for now.

 

Papi looks really good at 5, and he may take it as an insult to be moved to 6th to move a guy up in the order still hitting under .240. Youkilis, Gonzalez and Ortiz have been absolutely on fire over the last 10 games.

 

Leave them alone.

 

insult? the 6th even the 7th spot is for Power-Hitters=DHs, isn't it?, and the true as well is that he is a average batter at this point too... but again, do u wanna waste that speed, just like that?

[SCM33]

insult? the 6th spot is for Powered-Hitters=DHs' date=' isn't it?[/quote']

 

It would be an insult to him.

 

He understands hes not a #3 hitter or a #4 hitter at this stage in his career. He would not understand being moved lower in the lineup to make room for a guy still hitting under .240 and not getting on base.

 

Right now, they need to leave 1-5 alone.....they are all finally starting to gel.

[iortiz]

It would be an insult to him.

 

He understands hes not a #3 hitter or a #4 hitter at this stage in his career. He would not understand being moved lower in the lineup to make room for a guy still hitting under .240 and not getting on base.

 

Right now, they need to leave 1-5 alone.....they are all finally starting to gel.

 

whata about the speed?, we could leave some RISP, and all that this represent, right?

 

or when do you think is appropriate move him up?, CC is .308 and .780 OPS in May.

[SCM33]

whata about the speed?, we could leave some RISP, and all that this represent, right?

 

or when do you think is appropriate move him up?, CC is .308 and .780 OPS in May.

 

They have speed at the top. Its Ellsbury.

 

The top 5 guys should be hitting 1-5, Crawford isnt one of them.

 

They could move him up, to #7......if that makes you feel better than 8.

[iortiz]

They have speed at the top. Its Ellsbury.

 

The top 5 guys should be hitting 1-5, Crawford isnt one of them.

 

They could move him up, to #7......if that makes you feel better than 8.

 

hehehehehe :harhar:

 

let's say he keeps the numbers of may next month, the guy could be the difference in tight games when he'll be on bases.

[a700hitter]

I actually see a lot of merit in the argument that Crawford should hit 6th on the grounds that his speed can be better utilized stealing bases in front of the singles hitters at the bottom of the order instead of in front of big bangers like AGon, Youk and Ortiz who can drive guys in from first base.

[SCM33]

6th makes more sense than 2nd.

[iortiz]

I actually see a lot of merit in the argument that Crawford should hit 6th on the grounds that his speed can be better utilized stealing bases in front of the singles hitters at the bottom of the order instead of in front of big bangers like AGon' date=' Youk and Ortiz who can drive guys in from first base.[/quote']

 

for me 2nd spot, if not... at least 6th too.

[MJantomaso]

Well obv. the best spot for CC is in the 2 hole, due to the fact that he has hit there the majority of his career, but I dont see Francona taking Peddy out of that spot.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I completely agree that ultimately our line up will be best with the order of:

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

It extends our line up tremendously. Gives us more opportunities to set the table for the big sticks of Gonzo Youk Ortiz. They'll be up more often with more runners on base, and they'll be able to drive more runners in.

 

I know that our 1-5 is doing well right now, but Crawford may have just turned the corner, and if he has, why the hell wouldn't we put him at the top where he can maximize his damage?

[ORS]

I completely agree that ultimately our line up will be best with the order of:

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

It extends our line up tremendously. Gives us more opportunities to set the table for the big sticks of Gonzo Youk Ortiz. They'll be up more often with more runners on base, and they'll be able to drive more runners in.

 

I know that our 1-5 is doing well right now, but Crawford may have just turned the corner, and if he has, why the hell wouldn't we put him at the top where he can maximize his damage?

This is not supported statistically. Crawford is not, over his career, an "on base" guy. Putting him up there isn't likely to increase their RBI opportunties. Despite his good play in May, even when you compare it to Pedroia's struggles, their OBP in May are .330 for Crawford and .347 for Pedroia. What's more likely to happen is that when Ellsbury/Pedroia get on, then the middle of the order comes up with one more out recorded.

 

The the desire to have Crawford hit in the top 3 is nothing more than the archaic, "speed at the top", mentality.

[SoxSport]

He should be batting 2nd. You want to take full advantage of speed at the top of the lineup.

 

Trouble is, Tito isn't a speed or smallball guy. He loves those 14-1 games.

 

Still, Tito isn't bad with lineups, and I think you'll see CC move up to 2nd soon. Then Tito will have to figure out where to bat Pedey. Problems, problems.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Pedroia is the perfect number 2 hitter imo and I want their best hitter (Gonzo) hitting 3rd. I have no problem with Crawford hitting 6th.

[Palodios]

I think we're at the point where we had to look at this offense, and realize that no matter where players are hitting, it works. I still think Drew would be far more valuable at the 9 spot, simple because he is walking a lot more than he is hitting at this point, and it just doesn't look like he's going to drive in many runs that way.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Drew has been so bad lately that I'm more than happy to ride the Reddick train for a while and see what he can do. If he does well and we still want to promote Kalish next year, Reddick can promote himself and we can use him as trade bait. If not, we've got a good RF.

 

As far as having your best hitter hitting 3rd, I would agree normally, but this team has 3 guys who should be in the top 2 spots. Crawford has had a .350+ OBP for the past two years, so he's getting on base at a better pace. You hit him 6th, you take away his legs. Crawford is fast enough that anything that Youk, Gonzo, and Ortiz can go 1st to 3rd on would be a ball that Crawford can leg out for a double.

 

By hitting Crawford in the top 3, you extend the "good" portion of your line up and shorten the "bad" portion of your line up.

[Dojji]

Hit him down in the lineup and give him room to run. He doesn't have the OBP to hit at the top of the lineup and never has. Lives on gap power and speed, exactly the kind of guy people fool themselves into thinking are leadoff types. Not all fast guys need to lead off. He'll thrive in the 7 hole for as long as we maintain the kind of lineup that can allow him to hit there.

[SCM33]

Hit him down in the lineup and give him room to run. He doesn't have the OBP to hit at the top of the lineup and never has. Lives on gap power and speed' date=' exactly the kind of guy people fool themselves into thinking are leadoff types. Not all fast guys need to lead off. He'll thrive in the 7 hole for as long as we maintain the kind of lineup that can allow him to hit there.[/quote']

 

Thank you......I was saying this all offseason.

 

If you want the speed guys back to back, hit Crawford ninth, not second. Thats not going to happen, so 6-8 will be where he hits.

 

I dont care where Crawford hits really, as long as it's not 1-5. The 1-5 guys are on a special tear right now.

[BSN07]

Ummm if it isn't broken, don't fix it. 14 runs a game should suffice

 

IMO Crawford should not be in the top 3. His style of hitting seems to run very hot and cold so far. And he's never had a great OBP.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I had the mindset hitting Crawford 2nd but after looking at this thread I wouldn't mind him hitting 6th. Makes a lot of sense.

[boston22407]

Ummm if it isn't broken, don't fix it. 14 runs a game should suffice

 

IMO Crawford should not be in the top 3. His style of hitting seems to run very hot and cold so far. And he's never had a great OBP.

 

THIS!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hit him down in the lineup and give him room to run. He doesn't have the OBP to hit at the top of the lineup and never has. Lives on gap power and speed' date=' exactly the kind of guy people fool themselves into thinking are leadoff types. Not all fast guys need to lead off. He'll thrive in the 7 hole for as long as we maintain the kind of lineup that can allow him to hit there.[/quote']

 

The guy has had a combined .360 OBP over the past 2 years. That's a solid OBP. He's a top of the order hitter. I don't see why everyone is so against extending the line up.

 

Hitting him 6th bottles him up on all singles, and you take away his biggest asset - his speed. We didn't just spend $142mm on a guy so that we can hit him behind the 3 slowest guys on our roster. Not to mention that Crawford hits a ton of triples, and if Youk, Gonzo, or Ortiz is on 1st, those get turned into doubles because he's outrunning everyone.

 

It's so dumb to hit him behind those slow guys. If you wanted a 15-18 HR, .300 hitter with average speed we could have traded for Nick Markakis and saved ourselves a ton of money. It's absolutely retarded to spend all this money and then place him in a spot in the line up where you limit his damage.

[Palodios]

Hit him down in the lineup and give him room to run. He doesn't have the OBP to hit at the top of the lineup and never has. Lives on gap power and speed' date=' exactly the kind of guy people fool themselves into thinking are leadoff types. Not all fast guys need to lead off. He'll thrive in the 7 hole for as long as we maintain the kind of lineup that can allow him to hit there.[/quote']

 

.350 is the best OBP you're going to get from a speed guy. Look at the list from 2010, the only #1/#2 hitters in the majors with OBP higher than that are Ichiro, Damon, and Gardner. That's it, two HoFers and Gardner. Everyone seems to want a .400 OBP guy leading off, but they simply don't exist. The only way a guy has an OBP that high is if he has a dangerous bat and gets a lot of walks.

[Dojji]

By career OBP:

 

Pedroia .368

Ellsbury .347

Crawford .335

 

one of these things is not like the others...

 

Crawford is a gap power hitter who leverages his legs to increase his slugging percentage. He does not have the discipline required to lead off. He's been in the "tolerable top of the order hitter" range in my mind for exactly 3 years of his career, it's very hit and miss whether he'll do you credit there, meanwhile if you take pressure off him to get on base and let him swing, he'll tattoo a lot of doubles and triples and do a lot of damage in what I like to consider the second run creation unit (the 6-9 guys) and thrive in an environment that plays to his strengths as a lower middle of the order "power" hitter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By career OBP:

 

Pedroia .368

Ellsbury .347

Crawford .335

 

one of these things is not like the others...

 

Crawford is a gap power hitter who leverages his legs to increase his slugging percentage. He's been in the "tolerable top of the order hitter" range in my mind for exactly 3 years of his career, it's very hit and miss whether he'll do you credit there, meanwhile if you take pressure off him to get on base and let him swing, he'll tattoo a lot of doubles and triples and do a lot of damage in what I like to consider the second run creation unit (the 6-9 guys) and thrive in a low pressure environment.

 

God this is the biggest ******** stat I've ever seen in my life. Saying Crawford is a .335 OBP guy is like saying that JD Drew is still a .390 OBP guy.

 

You completely ignore the fact that Crawford was injured in 2008 and his stats reflected that.

 

2010 - .356 OBP

2009 - .364 OBP

2008 - .319 OBP

2007 - .355 OBP

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

Take out his injured season in 2008, and his OBP over that span is .357. So spare me with the .335 OBP ******** because that's a complete manipulation of his stats and horrible representation of the player that he is today.

 

By the way - in May, Crawford has a .355 OBP, which is plenty good enough for a top 3 spot.

 

Oh - and as far as your whole "ease the pressure" idea -

 

Crawford, who raised his batting average to .229, said that being dropped to the lower part of the batting order didn't necessarily ease the pressure.

 

“Wherever they put me, that’s where I’ll bat,” he said. “I’ve been playing with pressure my whole career. I can’t really say it helped me.”

[a700hitter]

Crawford's OBP is just fine to hit in the top of the order. Put the top 5 best hitters at the top of the lineup. In my mind, Ellsbury gets squeezed out of this group. Right now an argument could be made to move Pedroia out of the 2 hole until he goes on a tear. I don't believe in the "extending the lineup" theory. I don't want a beast like Ortiz (and he's still a major offensive force) hitting sixth. I want as many of our wrecking balls batting in the first inning of every game. I want them jumping all opposing pitchers before they even get their footing on the mound. Extending the lineup with 3 singles hitters at the top of the lineup would be counter productive IMO. Numbers 1 and 2 set the table. In most games 1 of them will get on, so at least 2 of our boppers get a chance to put up a crooked number and in many games all 3 boppers will get a shot. If you bat Ortiz 6th, he'll be leading off or batting 2nd in the second inning of most games. That wouldn't be a good thing. If Crawford gets moved to the top 5, one of the other singles hitters has to get dropped. I'd say that we should put the two hottest singles hitters at the top of the lineup each game followed by the 3 beasts.

[WellBefore2004]

Hit him down in the lineup and give him room to run. He doesn't have the OBP to hit at the top of the lineup and never has. Lives on gap power and speed' date=' exactly the kind of guy people fool themselves into thinking are leadoff types. Not all fast guys need to lead off. He'll thrive in the 7 hole for as long as we maintain the kind of lineup that can allow him to hit there.[/quote']

 

This.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Crawford's OBP is just fine to hit in the top of the order. Put the top 5 best hitters at the top of the lineup. In my mind' date=' Ellsbury gets squeezed out of this group. Right now an argument could be made to move Pedroia out of the 2 hole until he goes on a tear. I don't believe in the "extending the lineup" theory. I don't want a beast like Ortiz (and he's still a major offensive force) hitting sixth. I want as many of our wrecking balls batting in the first inning of every game. I want them jumping all opposing pitchers before they even get their footing on the mound. Extending the lineup with 3 singles hitters at the top of the lineup would be counter productive IMO. Numbers 1 and 2 set the table. In most games 1 of them will get on, so at least 2 of our boppers get a chance to put up a crooked number and in many games all 3 boppers will get a shot. If you bat Ortiz 6th, he'll be leading off or batting 2nd in the second inning of most games. That wouldn't be a good thing. If Crawford gets moved to the top 5, one of the other singles hitters has to get dropped. I'd say that we should put the two hottest singles hitters at the top of the lineup each game followed by the 3 beasts.[/quote']

 

I just can't see squeezing Ellsbury out right now. The guy has been on fire since moving up to the leadoff role. Look at these stats:

 

33 Games Played

.340/.404/.461/.865

14 Doubles

23 Runs

14 Stolen Bases

17 RBI

 

Having said that, looking at our team, with our biggest problem right now being trying to fit 6 guys in the top 5 spots, that's a hell of a problem to have.

 

Here's my thinking. We have Ellsbury leading off, he's set in stone at 1. The way he's hitting, we can't move him.

 

Crawford does not need to hit 6th. It limits his damage. He's a top 3 hitter, plain and simple. He needs two speed guys hitting in front of him to open up the base paths on his singles, or to score from first on his triples. If we go Drew 9, Ells 1, Craw 2, that's 3 consecutive lefties, something I doubt Francona will do. If we go Drew 9, Ells 1, Pedey 2, Craw 3, you've got 3 guys in front of him who are relatively-to-very fast.

 

Line up of Ells - Pedey - Craw - Gonzo - Youk - Ortiz - Lowrie - Salty - Drew? I like that a lot.