www.FireFrancona.com

[Emmz]

Managing in the AL isn't about strategy the way it is in the NL. Joe Girardi is just as terrible a strategist as Tito, and the Yankees win 95 games every year pretty much. Seriously, Ron Gardenhire is as bad as they come, he puts in guys who have career 9 ERAs versus the Yankees to face Tex and A-Rod. Seriously, the slump will pass and you'll forget about how frustrating Tito is with his pitching decisions.

 

Just knee-jerk reactions, if he misses out on the playoffs this season, then you legitimately have to hold someone accountable, considering how good this team should be.

[MJantomaso]

Why not try to go get Torey Lovullo?

[MJantomaso]

To be 100% honest with you i haven't been watching alot of games due to Celtics and bruins games and work ' date=' but IMO most of the players haven't played to their caliber besides A-gon, Pap and josh ,and jed .But i think he is doing a good job what else could he do better take money away from them to get them going[/quote']

 

So you are going to come in and act like you know a thing or two and you haven't even been watching the games?

[RedSoxFaithful]

To be 100% honest with you i haven't been watching alot of games due to Celtics and bruins games and work ' date=' but IMO most of the players haven't played to their caliber besides A-gon, Pap and josh ,and jed .But i think he is doing a good job what else could he do better take money away from them to get them going[/quote']

 

My only problem with him is how he uses his pitching staff. It seems as if when a pitcher is struggling and getting rocked he leaves them out there to throw 125 pitches and when someone is rolling he takes them out too early like Jon Lester in a start earlier this year. He also seems to over manage his bullpen like taking out Hill last night to put in Aceves when Hill had it undercontrol. Aceves then loaded the bases and barely escaped that inning with out a run. He also tends to put guys in the game in key situations when they have no business being in the game.

 

You are right most of the team is underperforming but I think he should take some of the blame

[boston22407]

So you are going to come in and act like you know a thing or two and you haven't even been watching the games?

 

i can still have a opinion on who the coach is if i watch or not

[MJantomaso]

My only problem with him is how he uses his pitching staff. It seems as if when a pitcher is struggling and getting rocked he leaves them out there to throw 125 pitches and when someone is rolling he takes them out too early like Jon Lester in a start earlier this year. He also seems to over manage his bullpen like taking out Hill last night to put in Aceves when Hill had it undercontrol. Aceves then loaded the bases and barely escaped that inning with out a run. He also tends to put guys in the game in key situations when they have no business being in the game.

 

You are right most of the team is underperforming but I think he should take some of the blame

 

Well put. By all means I am not putting every loss on Tito but his lack of ability to manage the bullpen has cost us in numerous games this season and past seasons. Another point is that he is way too passive on the base paths. This team has tremendous speed but we never use it...the blue jays honestly won the game tonight because they were relentless on the bases. Same thing with the Rays, Angels etc...

 

Sometimes you have to switch s*** up. Joe Torre is one of the greatest coaches of all time but the Yankees had to make a change. Its part of the game and I believe Tito's time is up.

[MJantomaso]

i can still have a opinion on who the coach is if i watch or not

 

Of course you can..I am all for speaking your opinion man. But I can have mine as well so don't question my opinions in a childish manner if you haven't even kept up with the season.

[boston22407]

Of course you can..I am all for speaking your opinion man. But I can have mine as well so don't question my opinions in a childish manner if you haven't even kept up with the season.

 

all i want know is who do you think will be a better replacement ?thats all !

[MJantomaso]

I mentioned Torey Lovullo, Bobby Valentine, Lou Pinella, Cito Gaston.

[SCM33]

My only problem with him is how he uses his pitching staff. It seems as if when a pitcher is struggling and getting rocked he leaves them out there to throw 125 pitches and when someone is rolling he takes them out too early like Jon Lester in a start earlier this year. He also seems to over manage his bullpen like taking out Hill last night to put in Aceves when Hill had it undercontrol. Aceves then loaded the bases and barely escaped that inning with out a run. He also tends to put guys in the game in key situations when they have no business being in the game.

 

You are right most of the team is underperforming but I think he should take some of the blame

 

Doesnt matter who he manages the pitching staff when Lackey continues to suck AND kill the bullpen. Doesnt matter how he manages the staff when they have to call on Wakefield to kill innings during games that are already over. Doesnt matter how he manages the pitching staff when he had to turn to guys like Jenks, Wheeler, Reyes and Okajima.

 

The bullpen has been brutal. Why is that Titos fault? Why is it Titos fault that Lackey has KILLED the bullpen for almost 3 weeks now because of his terrible starts? Why is it Titos fault that he was forced to start Wakefield twice this season already?

[RedSoxFaithful]

Doesnt matter who he manages the pitching staff when Lackey continues to suck AND kill the bullpen. Doesnt matter how he manages the staff when they have to call on Wakefield to kill innings during games that are already over. Doesnt matter how he manages the pitching staff when he had to turn to guys like Jenks, Wheeler, Reyes and Okajima.

 

The bullpen has been brutal. Why is that Titos fault? Why is it Titos fault that Lackey has KILLED the bullpen for almost 3 weeks now because of his terrible starts? Why is it Titos fault that he was forced to start Wakefield twice this season already?

 

I know Lackey, Wheeler, Jenks etc. suck I'm not blaming him for them sucking that's all on them but that doesn't aply to the begining of my post about him pulling starters to early or keeping them in too long when they have nothing left in a close game. It also doesn't aply to the fact he sometimes pulls relivers like Hill when they are in control due to overmanaging or sometimes he has to much faith in his pitcher to work out of situations when clearly they are struggling.

 

In Wake's second start against Seattle he was actually pitching extremly well but Francona pulled him after 85 pitches for Jenks who then blew the game.

 

There are many problems with this team and I think Terry Francona is one of them .

 

I would also like to see him shake up this line up a bit like move Ortiz to 4th and Youk to 5th and even move Pedroia out of the 2 hole and put Crawford there, but I am really indifferent on the line up.

[SCM33]

I know Lackey, Wheeler, Jenks etc. suck I'm not blaming him for them sucking that's all on them but that doesn't aply to the begining of my post about him pulling starters to early or keeping them in too long when they have nothing left in a close game. It also doesn't aply to the fact he sometimes pulls relivers like Hill when they are in control due to overmanaging or sometimes he has to much faith in his pitcher to work out of situations when clearly they are struggling.

 

In Wake's second start against Seattle he was actually pitching extremly well but Francona pulled him after 85 pitches for Jenks who then blew the game.

 

There are many problems with this team and I think Terry Francona is one of them .

 

I would also like to see him shake up this line up a bit like move Ortiz to 4th and Youk to 5th and even move Pedroia out of the 2 hole and put Crawford there, but I am really indifferent on the line up.

 

 

Hes had to pull guys early and leave guys in too long because of the ineffectiveness of the bullpen. Guys hes pulled early have been because of over use in starts prior. Guys he leaves in too long are because of a tired bullpen.

 

Lackey last 2 starts, and Wakefields last start have caused the bullpen to be overused to the point where they have had to send guys down to AAA and bring up others to fill in.

 

Lackey has singlehandedly destroyed the bullpen over the last 2 weeks.

 

If he leaves Hill in, he is no good for the next few nights. When Lackey or Wakefield are lined up after a game Hill pitches in, then he needs to save him because he knows he will be going to the pen early.

 

The fact that he isnt getting enough innings out of his starting pitchers is creating a vicious cycle that is slowly killing this team.

[MJantomaso]

As much as Lackey blows right now you have to tip your hat for him being out there with his family issues. I couldnt imagine being able to focus with my wife dying of breast cancer.

[SoxFanForsyth]

My only problem with him is how he uses his pitching staff. It seems as if when a pitcher is struggling and getting rocked he leaves them out there to throw 125 pitches and when someone is rolling he takes them out too early like Jon Lester in a start earlier this year. He also seems to over manage his bullpen like taking out Hill last night to put in Aceves when Hill had it undercontrol. Aceves then loaded the bases and barely escaped that inning with out a run. He also tends to put guys in the game in key situations when they have no business being in the game.

 

You are right most of the team is underperforming but I think he should take some of the blame

 

See - you're exactly right, but the thing is, in the American League, bullpen management is the top priority. Especially in the AL East, where its murderers row all over the place and 2 outs in the 6th could very quickly turn into a 5 run inning. That's where Francona becomes incredibly complacent and lethargic. He just watches our SP get busted for a huge late inning rally, and often times its without pitchers even warming up in the bullpen.

 

When Lackey went out for the 7th inning last night, after how he had thrown the entire game, it is absolutely inexcusable not to have someone warming up in the bullpen from the first pitch of that inning. Francona is entirely too reactive rather than being proactive. Lackey should have been pulled after Bautista's wall ball single. Then he wasn't. Then he walks the bases loaded and had no business being out there. Then Francona stayed with him. Then he walks in a huge insurance run. He's absolutely gassed. He can't find the paint. And Francona leaves him in.

 

Francona has no excuse having any say over the bullpen management. Line up's and stuff, eh, ok with our line up it's pretty hard to go wrong so we'll let him handle that, even though he gives preferential treatment (Crawford should be in the 2 hole, no doubt about it). But bullpen management? We need to delegate those duties to Curt Young. At least he will see the signs of a gassed pitcher and actually act on it.

[Palodios]

i can still have a opinion on who the coach is if i watch or not

 

Judging a coach by the box score is like saying you thought Twilight was a good book because you enjoyed the shirtless men in the movie.

[ORS]

Judging a coach by the box score is like saying you thought Twilight was a good book because you enjoyed the shirtless men in the movie.

Awesome, just awesome.

[a700hitter]

I really think the major part of this teams dysfunction is the catching position. Letting Russell Martin slip through their fingers and land with the Yankees was a colossal blunder. They could have had him for a measly $3-4 million. It's inexplicable to me that after spending $300 million on 2 players that they pinched pennies at such a critical position where they were so week. That was not Francona's fault. Theo built a Space Shuttle team, but he gave the keys to a crackhead (Salty).

[ORS]

I don't see any merit in the defense of Francona that points out other reasons for the team's lack of success. There are always many contributing factors. Francona is, without question, one of the big ones.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Judging a coach by the box score is like saying you thought Twilight was a good book because you enjoyed the shirtless men in the movie.

 

I don't know who is judging him by the boxscore. We're judging him based on 8 years of horrid bullpen use. He's completely lost in terms of bullpen management unless he can go Bard - Pap.

 

It's not like he used to be good and then stopped. Last year, through the middle of the season, he started having a quick trigger with the bullpen and we started winning a lot of games. This year? He waits for implosions before warming anyone up.

 

The thing is, if he's so worried about our bullpen arms that he's willing to let Lackey turn a 1 run game into a 6 run game in a matter of 3 hitters, then maybe we should look into restructuring our bullpen.

 

First thing - get rid of Wakefield. He's not an effective reliever, and when Jenks and Wheeler get back, Wake should be one of the ones to go. He's entirely too one-dimensional and we have Aceves who can spot start and be much more effective and *key word* consistent than Wakefield.

 

Second thing - We need to just man up and go with a 13 man staff. Darnell McDonald has had 20 AB in 37 games this year. He is providing us nothing in depth, and when he does get up to the plate, he's hitting .150. Regardless, our problem right now is NOT hitting. We're hitting much better than we have been all year. Our problem is pitching. We need to DFA D-Mac (or look to trade him) and bring up someone from AAA (Doubront would be great). Then, when Wheeler and Jenks get back, we need to DFA Wakefield and option Okajima.

 

It's like Francona doesn't evaluate the team needs, he just goes with what's out there. He doesn't look to improve the team at all. He doesn't realize that having a one-dimensional, inconsistent knuckle baller in the bullpen is a wasted roster spot.

 

A bench of Varitek - Scutaro - Cameron, and a bullpen of Papelbon - Bard - Jenks - Albers - Wheeler - Aceves - Hill - Doubront would be much, much more effective and would cater to Francona's horrid bullpen management. If he would learn to go to the pen before shooting ourselves in the foot every game, we would be above .500.

[Palodios]

I don't know who is judging him by the boxscore. We're judging him based on 8 years of horrid bullpen use. He's completely lost in terms of bullpen management unless he can go Bard - Pap.

 

I quoted Boston220407, who was saying how great he thought Tito was, despite not actually watching the games.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I quoted Boston220407' date=' who was saying how great he thought Tito was, despite not actually watching the games.[/quote']

 

Yeah I know.... <_>

 

Dammit. My bad. :dunno:

[ORS]

Hes had to pull guys early and leave guys in too long because of the ineffectiveness of the bullpen. Guys hes pulled early have been because of over use in starts prior. Guys he leaves in too long are because of a tired bullpen.

Not true:

 

Lester got pulled after 7 IP/1 ER after 93 pitches - he threw 108 the game before that.

Lackey got pulled after 6 IP/1 ER after 93 pitches - he threw 91 the game before that.

 

If he leaves Hill in, he is no good for the next few nights. When Lackey or Wakefield are lined up after a game Hill pitches in, then he needs to save him because he knows he will be going to the pen early.

How is Hill no good for the next few nights? He got the first two guys he faced out, then Francona replaces him with Aceves to face the corpse of Juan Rivera. Aceves promptly goes HBP, BB, BB, Lineout to end the inning. Aceves threw in the prior night also. Letting Hill try to finish the inning was the right thing to do there.

 

It feels an awful lot like you are generalizing the excuses, and these generalizations just don't hold up to the actual chain of events.

 

Francona has been awful at game management this year. Awful. There's no way around that.

[MJantomaso]

We are talking about the guy that kept sending Eric Gagne out night after night. Saying that he had a "3 headed monster". smh..

[SoxFanForsyth]

If he leaves Hill in' date=' he is no good for the next few nights.[/b'] When Lackey or Wakefield are lined up after a game Hill pitches in, then he needs to save him because he knows he will be going to the pen early.

 

The fact that he isnt getting enough innings out of his starting pitchers is creating a vicious cycle that is slowly killing this team.

 

Hill got the first 2 outs before getting pulled!! He only had 1 out remaining in the inning! There was absolutely no reason why he pulled Hill there. To save 6 pitches?? Please! Not to mention the fact that he obviously didn't want to use him last night or he would have used him and pulled Lackey, and today is a day off, so why the hell spare him 6 pitches if, regardless of the fact, he's out of commission for the next day anyway!

 

It makes absolutely zero sense. None whatsoever.

[MJantomaso]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMDVyboc3YBebIw082usQjjTZZsaxjFqY34omogvynG97n9F0ZrA

 

Idk, something about his face makes me want to put my fist right in his suck hole.

[Hawkguy]

I'm in, can someone in the organization run an effective bullpen PLEASE!

[boston22407]

Judging a coach by the box score is like saying you thought Twilight was a good book because you enjoyed the shirtless men in the movie.

 

reading the game recaps and articles might play a role *******

[boston22407]

I quoted Boston220407' date=' who was saying how great he thought Tito was, despite not actually watching the games.[/quote']

 

and i do watch the games just not when celtics and bruins are playing and when i am not at work

[MANNYHOF24]

I don't see any merit in the defense of Francona that points out other reasons for the team's lack of success. There are always many contributing factors. Francona is' date=' without question, one of the big ones.[/quote']

 

If this team didn't have about 15 guys under performing based on their career averages, no one would be talking about this.

[MANNYHOF24]

I will say that I think he does manage the bullpen alright most of the time. Pulling Hill the other night didn't seem necessary, but 20-20 is hindsight. My biggest beef with Tito is that he does seem to leave the starter in for a few batters too long. However, with the way the bullpen has been taxed the last week what else can he do?