The Optimism Thread

[FredLynn]

What kills me is they have Cook throwing below 1.50 ERA and he is still down in the

minors. I feel Bard should go back and lets see Cook pick us up.

 

Cook is certainly worth a try, but thats 1.50 in the minors. He has not excelled much in the ML. We have to try something but Cook is unlikely to excel on this team. If he could just tread water until DiceK returns I would be happy.

[pedroias laser]

Cook is certainly worth a try' date=' but thats 1.50 in the minors. He has not excelled much in the ML. We have to try something but Cook is unlikely to excel on this team. If he could just tread water until DiceK returns I would be happy.[/quote']

 

Agree with you statement pumpsie. Hopefully if Cooks sinker is sinking until Dice comes

back and our bullpen stops bleeding like a stuck pig i think we could be ok.

[Wil Corderos Wife]

Agreed. I don't see how Cook could be much worse than what we've been throwing out there thus far. There's still a sizable gap between 'not excelling' and coughing up a 9 run lead. If he can come up here and be serviceable - eat some innings, get some outs, not give up gratuitous grand slams to the yankees - then he's done his job.

[Laser Show]

On the bright side, we can't possibly finish 4-158.

[redsoxbeatz]

From what i heard Cook has no intentions of extending and would leave if he is

not up in the big's by May1st.

 

That's how I understood it.

[redsoxbeatz]

On the bright side' date=' we can't possibly finish 4-158.[/quote']

 

We can't preserve 9 run leads with 1/3 of the game to go... Don't rule it out

[Laser Show]

We can't preserve 9 run leads with 1/3 of the game to go... Don't rule it out

 

Get your pessimism out of here!

[mvp 78]

Cook is certainly worth a try' date=' but thats 1.50 in the minors. He has not excelled much in the ML. We have to try something but Cook is unlikely to excel on this team. If he could just tread water until DiceK returns I would be happy.[/quote']

 

If they bring up Cook, they'll need to also bring up the 3b and SS who are scooping up the groundballs. The current left side of the IF leaves something to be desired defensively if they are going to bring in a groundball pitcher.

[Laser Show]

If they bring up Cook' date=' they'll need to also bring up the 3b and SS who are scooping up the groundballs. The current left side of the IF leaves something to be desired defensively if they are going to bring in a groundball pitcher.[/quote']

 

I'd weep tears of joy if Iglesias and Middlebrooks were here starting by May 1.

[BornToRun]

I'd weep tears of joy if Iglesias and Middlebrooks were here starting by May 1.

 

I can't wait for those guys to get up here. So excited.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I can't wait for those guys to get up here. So excited.

 

Tack on Lavarnway to that list for me. That's this season's saving grace IMO. If this team doesn't turn it around (which I think they will), we can at least look forward to the development of guys like Kalish, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, and Doubront. Potentially Alex Wilson, too.

 

Next year's roster could be a very, very young but very, very talented roster.

[BornToRun]

Tack on Lavarnway to that list for me. That's this season's saving grace IMO. If this team doesn't turn it around (which I think they will), we can at least look forward to the development of guys like Kalish, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, and Doubront. Potentially Alex Wilson, too.

 

Next year's roster could be a very, very young but very, very talented roster.

 

With a nucleus of proven stars. I love lavs but I'm torn between my excitement for him and my love for salty.

[a700hitter]

I'd weep tears of joy if Iglesias and Middlebrooks were here starting by May 1.

Iglesias is OPS ing at .564. He still hasn't proved that he can hit at all.

[a700hitter]

Tack on Lavarnway to that list for me. That's this season's saving grace IMO. If this team doesn't turn it around (which I think they will), we can at least look forward to the development of guys like Kalish, Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, and Doubront. Potentially Alex Wilson, too.

 

Next year's roster could be a very, very young but very, very talented roster.

very young rosters make many rookie mistakes, perform inconsistently an don't usually play in the post season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

With a nucleus of proven stars. I love lavs but I'm torn between my excitement for him and my love for salty.

 

Lavs has a chance to be a 30 HR, 100 RBI, .300/.390/.550, middle of the order hitter. Could easily be one of the best hitting catchers in the MLB.

[SoxFanForsyth]

very young rosters make many rookie mistakes' date=' perform inconsistently an don't usually play in the post season.[/quote']

 

Tell that to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon, and Lester. Or to Price, Hellickson, Jennings, and Moore.

 

Very young rosters are very impressionable rosters, too, and will be much more willing to buy in to what the manager is selling. Just look at the Rays over the past few years. Losing a guy like Youkilis wouldn't exactly hurt the clubhouse.

[a700hitter]

Tell that to Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon, and Lester. Or to Price, Hellickson, Jennings, and Moore.

 

Very young rosters are very impressionable rosters, too, and will be much more willing to buy in to what the manager is selling. Just look at the Rays over the past few years. Losing a guy like Youkilis wouldn't exactly hurt the clubhouse.

In 2007, Ellsbury and Lester were bit players, role layers. Those Sox also had Manny, Ortiz, Drew, Lowell, Varitek, Schilling, and Timlin--- lots of veterans who were proven stars and winners. Kids are great if you have the veterans to show the way. Otherwise, you have the KC Royals.

[BornToRun]

Lavs has a chance to be a 30 HR' date=' 100 RBI, .300/.390/.550, middle of the order hitter. Could easily be one of the best hitting catchers in the MLB.[/quote']

 

But I like Salty's hairrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[SoxFanForsyth]

In 2007' date=' Ellsbury and Lester were bit players, role layers. Those Sox also had Manny, Ortiz, Drew, Lowell, Varitek, Schilling, and Timlin--- lots of veterans who were proven stars and winners. Kids are great if you have the veterans to show the way. Otherwise, you have the KC Royals.[/quote']

 

Well, this team will still have Crawford, Gonzo, Pedroia, Lester, Bard, Ellsbury, Beckett, Buchholz, etc.

 

I'm not saying we should run a team full of rookies out there. I'm saying that when you nix some very talented young players in with some talented veterans, it can be an extremely dangerous team.

 

Especially when you've got young players to replace expensive players, you've got money in Youk, Ortiz (maybe), DiceK, etc coming off the books, you can go out and get a guy like Cole Hamels.

[a700hitter]

Well, this team will still have Crawford, Gonzo, Pedroia, Lester, Bard, Ellsbury, Beckett, Buchholz, etc.

 

I'm not saying we should run a team full of rookies out there. I'm saying that when you nix some very talented young players in with some talented veterans, it can be an extremely dangerous team.

 

Especially when you've got young players to replace expensive players, you've got money in Youk, Ortiz (maybe), DiceK, etc coming off the books, you can go out and get a guy like Cole Hamels.

Yes, it is true that we would still have a bunch of good veterans.

[ORS]

If they bring up Cook' date=' they'll need to also bring up the 3b and SS who are scooping up the groundballs. The current left side of the IF leaves something to be desired defensively if they are going to bring in a groundball pitcher.[/quote']

Yeah, he's had sme good results (1 run in a 7 inning CG today) but he's struck out one in his last 15 AAA innings. Buyer beware.

[Palodios]

Yeah' date=' he's had sme good results (1 run in a 7 inning CG today) but he's struck out one in his last 15 AAA innings. Buyer beware.[/quote']

 

Have you heard anything about his performance? I'd be less concerned about his strikeouts and more concerned about how his pitches looked. This is a guy who has averaged only 3.8 K/9 for his career afterall.

[ORS]

Have you heard anything about his performance? I'd be less concerned about his strikeouts and more concerned about how his pitches looked. This is a guy who has averaged only 3.8 K/9 for his career afterall.

I think his career 4.50 NL West ERA translates into 5+ in the AL East. Bring him up, but let him pitch in the BP. He's not worth canceling the Bard as a starter project which has shown some positive early returns.

[mvp 78]

I think his career 4.50 NL West ERA translates into 5+ in the AL East. Bring him up' date=' but let him pitch in the BP. He's not worth canceling the Bard as a starter project which has shown some positive early returns.[/quote']

 

All of this. Cook is an "oh s***, we need a fill-in" starter at best. I'd be happier with Alex Wilson starting than Cook over the long term.

[Palodios]

I think his career 4.50 NL West ERA translates into 5+ in the AL East. Bring him up' date=' but let him pitch in the BP. He's not worth canceling the Bard as a starter project which has shown some positive early returns.[/quote']

 

The meat of his career (2005-2009) his ERA is from 3.50 to 4.20. And Colorado isn't exactly the easiest place to pitch for a contact pitcher.

 

The Red Sox aren't going to find another closer as good as Bard-- half the closers in major leagues are hurt. Wilson, Soria, Farnsworth, Bailey, Santos... they will not be the only team looking for one. Going with Albers/Morales/Melancon in the 6th/7th/8th innings simply will not get this team to the playoffs.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The only thing the Sox can hope for is that Rich Hill can come in and be that 7th inning piece with Morales as the 8th inning piece, and Aceves can somehow calm down as the closer.

 

One thing that Cafardo was saying on the broadcast yesterday (he was filling in for Remy in the late innings) was that a lot of scouts are wondering if Aceves is overthrowing. He's throwing 95-96, which is nice, but his ball is straight. He needs to tone it down to the 93-94 range and get the movement back on his pitches.

[ORS]

The meat of his career (2005-2009) his ERA is from 3.50 to 4.20. And Colorado isn't exactly the easiest place to pitch for a contact pitcher.

 

The Red Sox aren't going to find another closer as good as Bard-- half the closers in major leagues are hurt. Wilson, Soria, Farnsworth, Bailey, Santos... they will not be the only team looking for one. Going with Albers/Morales/Melancon in the 6th/7th/8th innings simply will not get this team to the playoffs.

So? It's pretty evident that ownership/management isn't all-in on this year's roster. How else could they have accepted so many question marks going into the year, several significant ones that have blown up into issues in the first two weeks, plus other unanticipated injuries? If they are unlikely to make the moves necessary to give it a good run this year, why waste time developing Bard into a starter, especially since he's shown some potential to be a good one, just to plug a hole on a roster that they don't appear to have much faith in. It's terribly short-sighted to ask for the immediate gratification, particularly when moving Bard into the closer's role does nothing to address the 6th/7th/8th innings you are talking about.

[kapsis21]

The only thing the Sox can hope for is that Rich Hill can come in and be that 7th inning piece with Morales as the 8th inning piece, and Aceves can somehow calm down as the closer.

 

One thing that Cafardo was saying on the broadcast yesterday (he was filling in for Remy in the late innings) was that a lot of scouts are wondering if Aceves is overthrowing. He's throwing 95-96, which is nice, but his ball is straight. He needs to tone it down to the 93-94 range and get the movement back on his pitches.

 

yep i heard the same thing and noticed it too in yesterdays game. he needs to get back some life in his fastball.

I hope the scouts are telling it to the people in the team or BV or somebody...

[kapsis21]

All of this. Cook is an "oh s***' date=' we need a fill-in" starter at best. I'd be happier with Alex Wilson starting than Cook over the long term.[/quote']

 

Justin Thomas needs to be DFAd and Cook needs to take his spot. but again like SFF mentioned how much of Cook's ERA is so low also depends on Iggy and Middlebrooks fanning the right infield.

[a700hitter]

So? It's pretty evident that ownership/management isn't all-in on this year's roster. How else could they have accepted so many question marks going into the year' date=' several significant ones that have blown up into issues in the first two weeks, plus other unanticipated injuries? If they are unlikely to make the moves necessary to give it a good run this year, why waste time developing Bard into a starter, especially since he's shown some potential to be a good one, just to plug a hole on a roster that they don't appear to have much faith in. It's terribly short-sighted to ask for the immediate gratification, particularly when moving Bard into the closer's role does nothing to address the 6th/7th/8th innings you are talking about.[/quote']I fully understand your point, but the problem is that if they spiral out of the race by the end of May, they risk damaging the franchise. By not aggressively addressing the issues in the off season, this season's slow start has conjured up all sorts of carryover comparisons to the 2011 collapse by the press and negative emotions by fans. This horrible start is precisely why I would have budgeted extra money to turn things around. In the bigger picture, the additional expenditure would have been well-placed to put the memory of 2011 in the rear-view mirror. Now, the FO is coming under criticism and there is a feeding frenzy mentality with the press. Blood is in the water. If they don't plug the bullpen hole and stop the bleeding, things could get much worse. This FO has spent a ton of money and time building the reputation as a first class organization that puts a good product on the field every year. I don't think they want to be out of the race before the All Star break with a $174 million payroll. I don't like putting Bard back and forth from the rotation, but unless they address the issue in another manner, I don't think the have a choice. When you have a collapse like 2011 followed by a team that is out of the race early when you charge the highest ticket prices in Baseball, you will lose fans. When fans walk away, they are not so quick to come back. The pink hats will start to spend their money elsewhere. The real fans, like myself will continue to watch and buy tickets-- and it will be easier to get good seats, but the pink hats are important to the organization.