The Catcher and SS positions

[Cocos Disciples]

What could Ianetta cost?

 

Probably a bunch. I doubt a contender is going to want to trade their starting catcher, especially a good one.

[Palodios]

As for jumping 2 levels with Federowicz, that's nearly as bad, only in this case you're actually ruining a prospect instead of just wasting your time with a past-it veteran.

 

We have exactly one alternative to Salty, and that's Expo.

 

I hate it when players are brought up early, but Federowicz is a different case. You'll ruin his bat, sure, but we're not getting anything offensively from C to begin with. His defense is vastly more valuable than the full package we're getting from Salty.

[SCM33]

Probably a bunch. I doubt a contender is going to want to trade their starting catcher' date=' especially a good one.[/quote']

 

Catchers are hard to find, especially ones that can give you something offensively.

 

The Sox had one of the top 5, maybe even 3 offensive catchers in the game last year and let him walk.

 

Ianetta is a great suggestion, but its never going to happen.

 

Realistically, the only options are Molina or one of the guys in the organization. They wont get much offense out of Molina, Exposito or Federowicz.....but they will get better defense.

 

Besides, I think those guys are capable of hitting .203 with zero power, zero extra base ability, zero plate discipline and a 26% strikeout rate.

 

BTW, Salty still cant catch, or throw, or block pitches, or call a game.

 

High school players can produce the same results.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

God this is hilariously ridiculous. I've never seen someone on the Red Sox get hated so badly. Seriously give up on this. Get used to Salty. It's not that big a deal. Rushing prospects or signing an out of shape washed up catcher is worse than having Salty the rest of this season. The only thing Varitek has over Salty is this supposed "calling games" which is so overdone. Varitek can't throw out people anymore. He can't hit. Molina is old and out fo shape and will be worse than them offensively and will probably be just as bad defensively. He might be able to throw a runner out and that's probably it.

[SCM33]

God this is hilariously ridiculous. I've never seen someone on the Red Sox get hated so badly. Seriously give up on this. Get used to Salty. It's not that big a deal. Rushing prospects or signing an out of shape washed up catcher is worse than having Salty the rest of this season. The only thing Varitek has over Salty is this supposed "calling games" which is so overdone. Varitek can't throw out people anymore. He can't hit. Molina is old and out fo shape and will be worse than them offensively and will probably be just as bad defensively. He might be able to throw a runner out and that's probably it.

 

To be fair, Salty is not "hated" by many people on this board man. Maybe one, or two others disapprove of him in the starting lineup. Hate is a strong word though man. He is only a catcher on the Redsox, and he sucks at it. Try not to take it personal, he sucks....and I only point that out.

 

I dont mind being pointed out at wrong, but he has done a spectacular job at making it easy to point out his shortcomings.

 

Saying that anybody out there (free agent, minor leaguer, bullpen catcher, high school backup) cant do it better at this point is the hilariously ridiculous thing.

 

He cant hit for average. He doesnt hit XBH. He cant hit for power. He cant get on base. He cant work a count. He K's 26% of the time. He cant throw. He cant catch. He cant block pitches. He cant call a game. The pitching staff would rather throw to a catcher who cant hit his weight and is almost 15 years older.

 

Those are facts man. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear. I want the Sox to win just as you do. They are under .500 and this team has a glaring weakness in one of the most important positions in the game. We dont pay these pitchers millions of dollars to throw to a guy that they DONT want to throw to at the expense of the entire team.

 

I dont hate Salty, hes just a baseball player. The thing I hate, is that they didnt/havent address(ed) the issue (during offseason) til this point.

 

There is a reason why a catcher (Varitek) who cant throw, or hit AT ALL is starting to approach the same amount of games played and at bats as Salty.

 

The reason is that the Sox pitchers, coaches and management have lost confidence (or never truly had it) in Salty.

 

Varitek was supposed to be a backup, but at this point they have almost split the time between them, in fact....in the last 10 games Varitek has had 5 more AB's than Salty, so that tells you what they think of the current situation.

 

Why does reality anger you so much?

[a700hitter]

Harshly evaluating a player's performance is not hate. In this case, until he proves otherwise, your assessment seems to be very accurate. It baffles me how some posters personalize criticism of performance as hatred of the player. I also think it is funny when people refer to a player as a good guy. How would we know, and I really don't care about that aspect. In my personal experience, I have met athletes who have/had great public images who were jerks and other players who had a bad rep who were very nice. Liking or hating these guys on a personal level is ridiculous. All we can do is enjoy and evaluate their performance. Right now, Salty bites the big one.

[Dojji]

I hate it when players are brought up early' date=' but Federowicz is a different case. You'll ruin his bat, sure, but we're not getting anything offensively from C to begin with. His defense is vastly more valuable than the full package we're getting from Salty.[/quote']

 

If that's what you want, then the guy you call up is still Luis Exposito. Sure, Feds is probably a better defender than Expo right now, but Expo is a guy who pretty much can't hit any worse anyway, is defensively solid, and who has an outside chance to still "get it" if he gets regular reps in the bigs.

[Palodios]

If that's what you want' date=' then the guy you call up is still Luis Exposito. Sure, Feds is probably a better defender than Expo right now, but Expo is a guy who pretty much can't hit any worse anyway, is defensively solid, and who has an outside chance to still "get it" if he gets regular reps in the bigs.[/quote']

 

I'll easily admit, the majority of my information on prospects comes from Soxprospects, and here. However, based on those, and what a few Sox commentators have said, it sounds like Federo is vastly superior defensively, and with gamecalling. At this point, I'm expecting zero offense from the position, so where's the harm?

[Palodios]

On another note, Varitek is hitting .250 for his last 28 AB. It almost looks like he slumped for his first week or two, and since then is getting back to career averages. Considering the reports of minor injuries late in spring training, I think he might do well for the team offensively going forward-- as long as he gets rest.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I hope you're right, but I must say, every single hit he has this year is going to surprise me.

[Palodios]

I hope you're right' date=' but I must say, every single hit he has this year is going to surprise me.[/quote']

 

There's no question he's in decline, but look at his career numbers. From May through October, his offensive numbers decline pretty much every month--except for July, which makes a helluva a lot of sense since he gets a fews day off for the ASB and can recharge.

 

Getting so many days off won't bring the old Varitek back, but I see absolutely no reason to see why he's done offensively. This is a guy who hit 7 home runs in 39 games last year afterall.

[SoxSport]

Tek can be productive if he's used sparingly and against LHP--which they are seeing a ton of with that imbalanced lineup. He got a hit last night in the late innings before getting replaced. He becomes more important with Salty clearly not ready to start for a $160 million dollar team. Tek needs some help, and Rosenthal says help will be coming soon. Poor Salty has "Theo" written on his back.

[SCM33]

Cant hit.

Cant catch.

Cant throw.

Cant call a game.

 

0-3, 2 more K's, hit in to a double play and allowed 3 more stolen bases.

 

Lackey is god awful, but has been known to blame others for his shortcomings. Wont surprise me if he points a finger at Salty.

[RickeO31]

i agree 100% with this thread. salty has potential but needs learning time from a proven verteran and varitek is obb. not that role model. he didn't have any vet to learn from in texas either. i think lowrie is going to be a good player in the future and im not a scutaro fan. he is a utility player. Maybe a jose reyes trade at the deadline?

[a700hitter]

Lackey is god awful, but has been known to blame others for his shortcomings. Wont surprise me if he points a finger at Salty.

... and it wouldn't surprise me if he were right.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Lackey has actually said good things about Salty. Well, that was a few weeks ago I don't know if he would now haha

[Palodios]

Salty has caught every single one of Lackey's starts this season. Coincidence? No, it certainly is not. Whether it is in Lackey's head or not, he does not seem to like Salty when on the mound.

[SCM33]

If I am going to dish out the bad, I may as well be fair and point out the good.

 

Salty the other night, not a bad game. 2-4 with a home run.

 

Right now, we are 1/4 of the way through the season. In my mind, at this point with the way Varitek has been hitting....I think it is a no brainer in terms of who should start.

 

The bigger question is this.....we are 1/4 of the way through the season, and have essentially got a NL lineups production out of the #9 hole between Varitek and Salty.

 

Will they make a change?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Varitek can't play everyday SCM.

[Dojji]

If I am going to dish out the bad, I may as well be fair and point out the good.

 

Salty the other night, not a bad game. 2-4 with a home run.

 

Right now, we are 1/4 of the way through the season. In my mind, at this point with the way Varitek has been hitting....I think it is a no brainer in terms of who should start.

 

The bigger question is this.....we are 1/4 of the way through the season, and have essentially got a NL lineups production out of the #9 hole between Varitek and Salty.

 

Will they make a change?

 

A change to what? There is nothing out there. No team has 2 good catchers right now. You guys are just going to deal with the fact that unless Salty breaks out, our next great catcher is most likely going to be a guy we develop internally, most likely either Expo, Fed or Lavarnway.

 

My position on the subject of catching was, and remains, that we should not have let George Kottaras go so cavalierly. He's better for Milwaukee than anything we have left right now.

[Palodios]

A change to what? There is nothing out there. No team has 2 good catchers right now. You guys are just going to deal with the fact that unless Salty breaks out' date=' our [i']next great catcher [/i]is most likely going to be a guy we develop internally, most likely either Expo, Fed or Lavarnway.

 

I don't know who thinks there are options available that are "great". But the simple fact is, Salty is a complete bust who provides nothing. Its not about getting a great player, or even a good player, but getting something--anything--out of the C position.

[Dipre]

More excuses for Lackey? Typical. Oh, and you don't have to wait until i'm gone for a month to bash me when i'm not around.

[Dojji]

I don't know who thinks there are options available that are "great". But the simple fact is' date=' Salty is a complete bust who provides nothing. Its not about getting a great player, or even a good player, but getting something--anything--out of the C position.[/quote']

 

Unless you want a guy like Brayan Pena, good luck getting even that.

[Palodios]

Unless you want a guy like Brayan Pena' date=' good luck getting even that.[/quote']

 

I've given two options. Ryan Doumit, who hits fairly well, but has absolutely no defense (just like Salty). Or, call up Federowicz who will provide no offense (just like salty) but atleast has a good arm and calls a decent game. Atleast you get something instead of nothing.

[SoxSport]

Salty is strictly a dice throw by the FO. Fact is, they have put in very little long range planning for Tek's successor. Part of the problem is Wakefield has needed a caddy for so long.

[Dojji]

Not for nothing, Salty with the lone RBI and a good game by his pitcher.

[iortiz]

To be fair Salty is looking better, hope keep this momentum.

[SCM33]

Not for nothing' date=' Salty with the lone RBI and a good game by his pitcher.[/quote']

 

To be fair Salty is looking better' date=' hope keep this momentum.[/quote']

 

My concern has never really been about Saltys offense.

 

My concern was that him and Varitek were/are almost equals offensively thus far.

 

The problem I had was how atrocious his defense was. If Salty were hitting, then its a little easier to forgive.

 

Salty hasnt done jack s*** for 1/4 of the season. If he improves, so be it......lets wait and see.

 

I hope I am wrong, the better he does, the better the team does.

 

He still has a long ways to go before hes improved behind the plate defensively.

[SoxFanForsyth]

My concern has never really been about Saltys offense.

 

My concern was that him and Varitek were/are almost equals offensively thus far.

 

The problem I had was how atrocious his defense was. If Salty were hitting, then its a little easier to forgive.

 

Salty hasnt done jack s*** for 1/4 of the season. If he improves, so be it......lets wait and see.

 

I hope I am wrong, the better he does, the better the team does.

 

He still has a long ways to go before hes improved behind the plate defensively.

 

I think Salty has made some significant strides recently, both in terms of swinging the bat and defensively. His throws down to 2nd have been right on target, he's been blocking just about everything that is in the dirt.

 

I know how easy it is to do this, because I do it too, but you can't harp on him because of the occasional passed ball. I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying when it does happen, because it will, we have to remember that it happens to every catcher. Every catcher is going to allow an occasional passed ball, the problem is that Salty was horrible defensively this year so any ball that gets by him now, people are calling for his head.

 

I'm also curious to see how Tito approaches the catching situation now that DiceK is on the DL. Does Salty now catch 4 of the 5 starters? If so, that could play a big role in a turnaround. The positive effect of consistent AB's cannot be overstated.

 

He is hitting .292/.320/.500 over his last 8 games. Something to build on.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By the way - Peter Gammons was on WEEI yesterday and he was talking about catchers in the AL. He said that all catchers in the AL are hitting a combined .221. Oddly enough, that's exactly what Salty is hitting.