Adrian Gonzalez

[redsoxrules]

the FO got extremly lucky if thats what really happened .

 

they need to stop f***ing around , this could of been another debacle like the Tex one

[ORS]

Yeah' date=' great. Just what we need -- another agent eating Theo's lunch. [/quote']

No offense, but if Nancy Pelosi went into negotiations with Theo Epstein, I'm confident you would be singing praises of her negotiation prowess. And I know you probably can't stand Nancy Pelosi. Point being, have you ever had the opinion that an agent didn't eat Theo's lunch? I can't recall a time that you have. I think you've typecast his negotiating ability as inept, and therefore it's your fallback position.

 

Look at what happened with the timeline of the whole trade. As soon as early reports indicated the deal would fall through, you were calling for his head and calling him a bumbling idiot. As soon as we found out it was done but without an extension, you said he had eff'ed up because they might only get one year of him. As soon as reports of an extension in the works came out, you said he was getting his lunch eaten. It doesn't seem to matter what is reported, your reaction will cast Theo in a negative light. This is why people are so quick to dismiss your points about the GM, and that's unfortunate, because some of them are good.

 

On the issue of Boggs negotiating ability, from the sound of things, if any lunch got eaten, it has already happened. You seem to be saying that he's got all the leverage moving forward in this negotiation, but that doesn't sound right. It sounds more like the parameters of the deal have been set. Also, I'd caution singing his praise. He was handed an ideal situation. The team showed their desperation for his player in the offer of talent going the other way alone, and the timing of the Werth deal landed in his lap. The only way he could have screwed it up is if he didn't answer the phone.

[BSN07]

I don't know' date=' I think the Sox 6/120 offer was simply them lowballing him. They must have known they needed to do much better, and that was just their low bid. Its called haggling haha[/quote']

 

Exactly. The Red Sox don't negotiate like the Yankees.

[BSN07]

No offense, but if Nancy Pelosi went into negotiations with Theo Epstein, I'm confident you would be singing praises of her negotiation prowess. And I know you probably can't stand Nancy Pelosi. Point being, have you ever had the opinion that an agent didn't eat Theo's lunch? I can't recall a time that you have. I think you've typecast his negotiating ability as inept, and therefore it's your fallback position.

 

Look at what happened with the timeline of the whole trade. As soon as early reports indicated the deal would fall through, you were calling for his head and calling him a bumbling idiot. As soon as we found out it was done but without an extension, you said he had eff'ed up because they might only get one year of him. As soon as reports of an extension in the works came out, you said he was getting his lunch eaten. It doesn't seem to matter what is reported, your reaction will cast Theo in a negative light. This is why people are so quick to dismiss your points about the GM, and that's unfortunate, because some of them are good.

 

On the issue of Boggs negotiating ability, from the sound of things, if any lunch got eaten, it has already happened. You seem to be saying that he's got all the leverage moving forward in this negotiation, but that doesn't sound right. It sounds more like the parameters of the deal have been set. Also, I'd caution singing his praise. He was handed an ideal situation. The team showed their desperation for his player in the offer of talent going the other way alone, and the timing of the Werth deal landed in his lap. The only way he could have screwed it up is if he didn't answer the phone.

 

Let the ensuing a700 lunch referencing meltdown begin. Pretty sure that he loves the fact the Red Sox have won 2 WS in recent years. But he hates the type of person Theo is and it burns his ass that a guy like Theo finally turned the franchise around. It's why he jumps at each and every opportunity to kill Theo no matter the reason. He won't be happy until they win a WS under someone else watchful eye, at which time he will belittle everything Theo accomplished in his time with the Red Sox. He's almost become as predictable as Jacko. At least Jacko accepts it and has shown an ability to even have some fun with it.

 

I agree with your assessment 100%

[a700hitter]

No offense, but if Nancy Pelosi went into negotiations with Theo Epstein, I'm confident you would be singing praises of her negotiation prowess. And I know you probably can't stand Nancy Pelosi. Point being, have you ever had the opinion that an agent didn't eat Theo's lunch? I can't recall a time that you have. I think you've typecast his negotiating ability as inept, and therefore it's your fallback position.

 

Look at what happened with the timeline of the whole trade. As soon as early reports indicated the deal would fall through, you were calling for his head and calling him a bumbling idiot. As soon as we found out it was done but without an extension, you said he had eff'ed up because they might only get one year of him. As soon as reports of an extension in the works came out, you said he was getting his lunch eaten. It doesn't seem to matter what is reported, your reaction will cast Theo in a negative light. This is why people are so quick to dismiss your points about the GM, and that's unfortunate, because some of them are good.

 

On the issue of Boggs negotiating ability, from the sound of things, if any lunch got eaten, it has already happened. You seem to be saying that he's got all the leverage moving forward in this negotiation, but that doesn't sound right. It sounds more like the parameters of the deal have been set. Also, I'd caution singing his praise. He was handed an ideal situation. The team showed their desperation for his player in the offer of talent going the other way alone, and the timing of the Werth deal landed in his lap. The only way he could have screwed it up is if he didn't answer the phone.

Not true. I posted positively about the Beltre deal last year. Also thought they did a good job holding the line with Boras on Dice K, because the Sox had all the leverage and used it. The posting fee was a huge miscalculation, but the negotiation with Boras was a good job.

 

Overall, I don't think contract negotiations are their strong point, and I think they were out-negotiated here. I think they were lucky that Werth signed before AGon left town, because I think the signing of Werth was the reason why they called Boggs. Until they sign AGon to the extension, he has the upper hand.

 

Here's the point that you are missing. My only agenda is to get the player, so on the post mortem I have no agenda. My agenda has been completed once we get the player I like. I hope they overspend and get Crawford too. You have an agenda in this discussion, not me.

[ORS]

Not true. I posted positively about the Beltre deal last year. Also thought they did a good job holding the line with Boras on Dice K, because they had all the leverage. The posting fee was a huge miscalculation, but the negotiation with Boras was a good job.

 

Overall, I don't think the contract negotiations are their strong point, and I think they were out-negotiated here. I think they were lucky that Werth signed before AGon left town, because I think the signing of Werth was the reason why they called Boggs. Until they sign AGon to the extension, he has the upper hand.

 

Here's the point that you are missing. My only agenda is to get the player, so on the post mortem I have no agenda. My agenda has been completed once we get the player I like. I hope they overspend and get Crawford too. You have an agenda in this discussion, not me.

Nice try, but not true. You've made some responses in the not too distant past that suggest people are ridiculous for assigning any agenda other than wanting to win to you. However, think about that. Multiple posters get the same vibe from your posts. I'm explaing where that vibe is coming from, at least from my perspective. If it's a couple of people, you might have a point, but if many tell you that you are coming off a certain way, it's probably because you are.

 

And, again, the parameters of the deal are set according to the reports. I'm not sure how much "upper hand" there can be moving forward if that is true.

[a700hitter]

Let the ensuing a700 lunch referencing meltdown begin. Pretty sure that he loves the fact the Red Sox have won 2 WS in recent years. But he hates the type of person Theo is and it burns his ass that a guy like Theo finally turned the franchise around. It's why he jumps at each and every opportunity to kill Theo no matter the reason. He won't be happy until they win a WS under someone else watchful eye, at which time he will belittle everything Theo accomplished in his time with the Red Sox. He's almost become as predictable as Jacko. At least Jacko accepts it and has shown an ability to even have some fun with it.

 

I agree with your assessment 100%

What is "a person like Theo"? Why don't I like him and what GM's would a guy like me like? I don't know Theo or what kind of person that he is. I judge the moves as they come. Some I like. Some I don't. I love getting AGon, so why would I dislike Theo? He got the guy I wanted. Again, let's leave the sports discussions to the sports and not the perceived personalities and beliefs of the poster. I busted your balls about making a bet yesterday, and you had posters jumping to your defense, and today you return to your personal characterizations of me which I have repeatedly told you is not within the rules of this community. How about knocking it off with that tactic once and for all. You don't know what I like or who I like or why. You don't know me. Let's discuss sports. Va, how about jumping in here to show you have some fairness.

[a700hitter]

Nice try' date=' but not true. You've made some responses in the not too distant past that suggest people are ridiculous for assigning any agenda other than wanting to win to you. [/quote']My agenda is to win? Huh? Yeah I admit that.

 

 

Multiple posters get the same vibe from your posts. I'm explaing where that vibe is coming from' date=' at least from my perspective. If it's a couple of people, you might have a point, but if many tell you that you are coming off a certain way, it's probably because you are.[/quote']Maybe if you and others read the words instead of trying to decipher the vibes, the discussions would be better. I'm from Brooklyn. We have a different way of phrasing things. Some view it as cutting, critical or blunt, and it is. However, it is not indicative of anything deeper.

 

And' date=' again, the parameters of the deal are set according to the reports. I'm not sure how much "upper hand" there can be moving forward if that is true.[/quote']Any agreement in excess of $500 must be in writing to be enforceable. It's called the parol evidence rule. If there is nothing on paper, there is no agreement. If AGon comes out of the gate fast, his agent will be sitting pretty. My advice to the Sox would be to lock this down now for the 8 years/$160 million. If they pay more, I don't really care, as long as he stays in a Red Sox uni.

[ORS]

My agenda is to win? Huh? Yeah I admit that.

If this is what you got from what I posted, then the first sentence of the next quote is some good advice for you to follow.

 

Maybe if you and others read the words instead of trying to decipher the vibes, the discussions would be better. I'm from Brooklyn. We have a different way of phrasing things. Some view it as cutting, critical or blunt, and it is. However, it is not indicative of anything deeper.

There's no deciphering. This isn't a mixed message we are getting. Nothing is lost in translation of your Brooklynese. We get what you are saying. What you are saying is following a pattern. We are commenting on the pattern.

 

Any agreement in excess of $500 must be in writing to be enforceable. It's called the parol evidence rule. If there is nothing on paper, there is no agreement. If AGon comes out of the gate fast, his agent will be sitting pretty. My advice to the Sox would be to lock this down now for the 8 years/$160 million. If they pay more, I don't really care, as long as he stays in a Red Sox uni.

I know it's not enforceable. That's a risk. Boggs and Gonzalez could go back on their word, or the Sox could. For either side that is something that I think they'd be foolish to do, and they know it. They'd lose all credibility in future negotiations. If this is truly a move for LT considerations, whether he comes out of the gate hot or not is immaterial, the deal will get announced shortly after opening day.

[Dipre]

Fire Theo. He sucks. He gets his lunch eaten by everyone.

 

Also of note, how much one "likes" a player is not the important issue when the team is constructing its roster and using that to evaluate moves is kinda biased.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[a700hitter]

Fire Theo. He sucks. He gets his lunch eaten by everyone.

 

Also of note, how much one "likes" a player is not the important issue when the team is constructing its roster and using that to evaluate moves is kinda biased.

 

But that's just my opinion.

No one would disagree, just as no one would judge a move based on whether he liked or disliked a GM.

[a700hitter]

If this is what you got from what I posted, then the first sentence of the next quote is some good advice for you to follow.

 

 

There's no deciphering. This isn't a mixed message we are getting. Nothing is lost in translation of your Brooklynese. We get what you are saying. What you are saying is following a pattern. We are commenting on the pattern.

Honestly, I don't even know what you are driving at. Does it have to do with the Red Sox or the Adrian Gonzalez move, or does this have something to do with your opinion of me? If it has to do with discussing the Red Sox or trades, I'm happy to discuss. If it has something to do with your opinion of me, I really don't care what you think. I'll keep my opinion of you to myself. This is a Red Sox forum.

 

I know it's not enforceable. That's a risk. Boggs and Gonzalez could go back on their word' date=' or the Sox could. For either side that is something that I think they'd be foolish to do, and they know it. They'd lose all credibility in future negotiations. If this is truly a move for LT considerations, whether he comes out of the gate hot or not is immaterial, the deal will get announced shortly after opening day.[/quote']Until the deal is finalized, negotiations continue. The agent may not breach the overall parameters, because he doesn't want to be accused of bad faith, but there is still room to negotiate, and he has the upper hand. If AGon starts hot, he will have more leverage. I think they should lock it down as early as possible.

[VA Sox Fan]

What is "a person like Theo"? Why don't I like him and what GM's would a guy like me like? I don't know Theo or what kind of person that he is. I judge the moves as they come. Some I like. Some I don't. I love getting AGon' date=' so why would I dislike Theo? He got the guy I wanted. Again, let's leave the sports discussions to the sports and not the perceived personalities and beliefs of the poster. I busted your balls about making a bet yesterday, and you had posters jumping to your defense, and today you return to your personal characterizations of me which I have repeatedly told you is not within the rules of this community. How about knocking it off with that tactic once and for all. You don't know what I like or who I like or why. You don't know me. Let's discuss sports. [b']Va, how about jumping in here to show you have some fairness[/b].

 

I'm not sure what he means by "a person like Theo" but you do take shots at our GM on a pretty regular basis and you do seem to dislike him, despite 2004 and 2007.

 

He didn't call you a deadbeat and accuse you of not having balls (over a stupid bet). Sorry bro, you are on your own. Perhaps Spud will come to your defense.:dunno:

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure what he means by "a person like Theo" but you do take shots at our GM on a pretty regular basis and you do seem to dislike him, despite 2004 and 2007.

 

He didn't call you a deadbeat and accuse you of not having balls (over a stupid bet). Sorry bro, you are on your own. Perhaps Spud will come to your defense.:dunno:

No long standing member is the subject of more name-calling than me on this forum.

 

I criticize players and management alike. Tito gets plenty of criticism from me, and he is my all-time favorite Red Sox manager. People tend to remember criticisms of the heroes and idols, and they resent it. They need to get over it and realize that their heroes and idols are public figures and their decisions will get scrutinized. It has nothing to do with like or dislike.

[BSN07]

What is "a person like Theo"? Why don't I like him and what GM's would a guy like me like? I don't know Theo or what kind of person that he is. I judge the moves as they come. Some I like. Some I don't. I love getting AGon' date=' so why would I dislike Theo? He got the guy I wanted. Again, let's leave the sports discussions to the sports and not the perceived personalities and beliefs of the poster. I busted your balls about making a bet yesterday, and you had posters jumping to your defense, and today you return to your personal characterizations of me which I have repeatedly told you is not within the rules of this community. How about knocking it off with that tactic once and for all. You don't know what I like or who I like or why. You don't know me. Let's discuss sports. Va, how about jumping in here to show you have some fairness.[/quote']

 

I didn't plead to anyone jump in for me yesterday. They did on their own accord. That should tell you something

 

You don't like a guy like Theo because he doesn't bend over backwards to appease fans like you. He takes a hard line and sticks to it. Instead of dropping his pants and taking to get that player at any costs. You hate him because he doesn't give you all the shiny new toys you want.

[a700hitter]

I didn't plead to anyone jump in for me yesterday. They did on their own accord. That should tell you something

 

You don't like a guy like Theo because he doesn't bend over backwards to appease fans like you. He takes a hard line and sticks to it. Instead of dropping his pants and taking to get that player at any costs. You hate him because he doesn't give you all the shiny new toys you want.

I was too confrontational trying to get you to put your money where your mouth. I admitted so the other day. As far as people jumping in, when they jump in to call me an idiot or a jerk or make some other characterization about me because I disagree with an organizational move or offer an opinion about the negotiating skills in the FO, I do shake my head. I find it strange that people will engage in personal insults with a real person over criticisms of public figures in sports.

[Ray10]

I will admit I was one of the people bashing the FO the other day only reason is they stress me out but in the end they did the right thing. Now I just hope they can sign AGONZ long term.

[BSN07]

I will admit I was one of the people bashing the FO the other day only reason is they stress me out but in the end they did the right thing. Now I just hope they can sign AGONZ long term.

 

It's that bubbling primordial Canadian blood of yours

[Spudboy]

I'm not sure what he means by "a person like Theo" but you do take shots at our GM on a pretty regular basis and you do seem to dislike him, despite 2004 and 2007.

 

He didn't call you a deadbeat and accuse you of not having balls (over a stupid bet). Sorry bro, you are on your own. Perhaps Spud will come to your defense.:dunno:

 

[Dipre]

Let's all begin loving each other in a non-gay way.

 

On topic:

 

The reason i asked you the question a700, is because i wanted to know if you would have considered it a smart decision to void the trade contingent on health issues.

[yeszir]

Reminder: This thread is about this guy - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaad01.shtml , Adrian Gonzalez. Not stupid feuds among supposedly grown men.

[soxfan17881]

I can't believe that people are still arguing about Sunday.

[Jacobysgirl729]

Wait' date=' the movie theatre wasn't really on fire and everyone needed to just calm down and be patient??? What a novel concept![/quote']

 

Yes it is... isnt it....

[SoxSport]

There is a blog in MLB TradeRumors.com that AdGon is denying he agreed to any extension with the Red Sox.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

Some people out there might interpret that negatively, but AdGon fortunately did the right thing. Even a verbal agreement might be interpreted as an agreement prior to the April 5th luxury tax deadline.

[inkman]

This is good news.

[Jacobysgirl729]

There is a blog in MLB TradeRumors.com that AdGon is denying he agreed to any extension with the Red Sox.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

Some people out there might interpret that negatively, but AdGon fortunately did the right thing. Even a verbal agreement might be interpreted as an agreement prior to the April 5th luxury tax deadline.

 

This is what i heard too...

 

then he went on to say that hopefully after the beginning of the season they would sit down and get something done

[SoxSport]

This is what i heard too...

 

then he went on to say that hopefully after the beginning of the season they would sit down and get something done

 

my impression is that traderumors is not very Red Sox friendly.

[BSN07]

my impression is that traderumors is not very Red Sox friendly.

 

The posters are mostly Red Sox and Yankee haters. The staff at MLBTR seems indifferent to me.

[a700hitter]

Does this sound like the parameteres of a deal are in place?

Adrian Gonzalez told Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com that he promised to negotiate potential extensions with the Red Sox before hitting the open market. "We won't be looking for record-breaking deals," Gonzalez told the Red Sox. "We just want market value." Gonzalez will hit free agency after the season if he doesn't finalize an extension with Boston first, as expected.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Does this sound like the parameteres of a deal are in place?

 

Sounds to me like he's stating the obvious. What else would Gonzo do if a deal doesn't get done? Retire?