The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Just read that the Sox are still in on Brian Fuentes per Jon Heyman.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm still up in the air about it. Guess it depends on the deal. Don't know how much I'd like to commit to a LOOGY, but at the same time having Fuentes, Doubront, Bard, Pap, Jenks, Wheeler, Atch, and Wake in the bullpen would be pretty solid.

 

I'd love to have Fuentes.

[EXman369]

If we some how got Fuentes i think i would cry, i dont see how that is possible but it is taking him a while to sign a deal so maybe he is debating taking less from us but knowing he has a great chance to win a ring if he does

[SoxFanForsyth]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman

i didnt have answer on wbz-fm a few mins ago. but yes, #redsox are still looking at fuentes. pen w/ him, bard, jenks & pap would be superb

 

Apparently we're still looking into it. Maybe if Fuentes took a 3 year/12mm back end loaded deal so that we could flip some of this money off the books next year, it would work (2mm in 11, 5mm in 12, 5mm in 13).

 

I mean honestly. How sick would it be to have 4 players who can close a game out??

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman

i didnt have answer on wbz-fm a few mins ago. but yes, #redsox are still looking at fuentes. pen w/ him, bard, jenks & pap would be superb

 

Apparently we're still looking into it. Maybe if Fuentes took a 3 year/12mm back end loaded deal so that we could flip some of this money off the books next year, it would work (2mm in 11, 5mm in 12, 5mm in 13).

 

I mean honestly. How sick would it be to have 4 players who can close a game out??

 

IF he plays like he did before 2010. I shouldn't be getting a heart attack every time I see him on the mound.

[SoxFanForsyth]

IF he plays like he did before 2010. I shouldn't be getting a heart attack every time I see him on the mound.

 

You had every reason to have a heart attack when the guy even got up to stretch his legs, for fear he may actually come in. I think Papelbon is done, myself. That's why the Fuentes signing will be so nice. Fuentes, Bard, and Jenks can all close out games instead of Pap if he struggles or if he needs a night or two off.

 

Of all relief pitchers with at least 20 saves last year (29 pitchers), Papelbon was tied for 1st with Francisco Cordero with 8 Blown Saves, he had the 5th worst ERA, and he had the most losses.

 

He blew 8 saves and converted 37, so he had a 82.23% conversion rate. That's right at the bottom next to Leo Nunez of the qualified closers by the parameters set above (20 saves or more).

 

I know you're not defending him at all, but the guy was just absolutely awful last year, and I really think people who are thinking he's going to bounce back this year just because it's his contract year don't have too much to lean on.

 

I'm pretty sure Teixera and A-Rod aren't going to care that it's his contract year when they're up in the bottom of the 9th in a 1 run game.

 

By the way, more 2010 stats to make you worry

 

Pap vs BAL - 5.19 ERA

Pap vs NYY - 6.97 ERA

Pap vs TOR - 4.26 ERA

 

I mean....that's our division right there outside of TB. That's who you have to be good against.

 

Papelbon?

[SoxFanForsyth]

^^^ That was a post I made a couple weeks ago, so the whole "I know you're not defending him" was not intended for you. I just copied/pasted.

[Palodios]

If they go for Fuentes, Papelbon is gone.

[a700hitter]

If they go for Fuentes' date=' Papelbon is gone.[/quote']...or maybe they just start the season with a stacked bullpen.

[EXman369]

It would make sense to then ship pap because he is onna cost prolly 12 mil

[SoxFanForsyth]

....and another tweet from Heyman:

 

while #redsox like fuentes, they have company. others w/some interest: tor, tb, colo, sea, minn, pitt, phil, milw, nyy & nym

 

I see the Twins, Yanks, Rox, Jays, and possibly even the Mets all offering 3 years at more than 12mm.

 

Now, if Fuentes is looking at it purely from a monetary standpoint, he'll probably go elsewhere.

 

If he's looking at it from a winning standpoint, I think the Sox will outbid the Phils, and those are the two teams with the best chance for the next couple of years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It would make sense to then ship pap because he is onna cost prolly 12 mil

 

But who is going to take on Pap, coming off his worst season, at $12mm, in a contract year?

 

We would have to eat about $8-9mm just to get a bite, and at that point, I would say Pap is worth the extra $4mm to see if he can rebound.

 

Otherwise, trade him at the deadline if you can get better than 2 draft picks, even if you have to eat a little salary.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Has there been one player the Sox were trying to pursue in the Yankees didn't want this offseason? Lol.

[Palodios]

Is non-tendering Pap still an option? Otherwise if they eat 2-4 million, 1/8 million is a very reasonable deal for a closer for any of the teams who lose out on Soriano.

[EXman369]

But who is going to take on Pap, coming off his worst season, at $12mm, in a contract year?

 

We would have to eat about $8-9mm just to get a bite, and at that point, I would say Pap is worth the extra $4mm to see if he can rebound.

 

Otherwise, trade him at the deadline if you can get better than 2 draft picks, even if you have to eat a little salary.

 

Completlly kicking the tires with this but what if The sox signed Fuentes then went out and traded pap, ellsbury, + prospects for upton from Arizona or kemp from LA. Prolly nil chance it happens but would give us another right hand power bat and would not have to worry about our team for the next 3 years atleast

[WhiskeyBreath]

Arizona doesn't need Papelbon for a bunch of reasons.

[Dipre]

Dumping Papelbon to sign Fuentes makes no sense. Even with his down year, Paps is still a superior reliever than Fuentes, so he's a better option even if he'll make a ton of money. And he can't be non-tendered since he was offered arb.

[Palodios]

I'd take Fuentes at 3/12 over Papelbon at 1/12 any day of the week.

 

Bard/Wheeler/Jenks/Fuentes are all 8th/9th inning guys. Is Papelbon?

[Dipre]

Agree to disagree. I'd rather overpay for one year with the superior reliever than go three years on a LOOGY.

 

I always say that, because of the possibility of relievers becoming a sunk cost, anything more than a two-year deal is looking for trouble. Not to mention that then Fuentes wouldn't cost 3/12, but you'd have to factor in the cost of cutting Papelbon. Not worth it IMO.

[Palodios]

Yeah, a 3 year contract for a lefty specialist seems like a bad idea. I just think this team is better with Papelbon gone. I put a lot of weight on certain stats, and BS is one of them.

[diony]

Fuentes has a noticeable platoon split, but he doesn't fits the definition of LOOGY. A 4m AAV for a guy that can close is a bargain.

[Dipre]

The platoon issues have grown noticeably worse the last few years. Besides, there have been a ton of guys "who have closed" who have signed for similar contracts and are superior pitchers. (JJ Putz comes to mind), bargain is not the right word.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox need a lefty reliever. I don't doubt that they'll find one. My guess is that Fuentes is holding out for the sox best offer since he would really complement them really well. If you have a pen with Wheeler, Jenks, Bard, Fuentes and Papelbon, you'd fall into the top 10 even if 2 fall off a cliff

[a700hitter]

Athletics Out On Adrian Beltre

By Tim Dierkes [December 29 at 1:15pm CST]

 

The Athletics pulled out of talks with Adrian Beltre this week, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. They made multiple offers for the third baseman this winter, but will now look at relievers Chad Qualls and Hideki Okajima and possibly a different third base option.

 

Rosenthal says the Rangers maintain interest but "remain uncomfortable with both the price and fit" for Beltre given incumbent third baseman Michael Young.

 

Unless a surprise team jumps in, the Angels remain the favorite despite pulling their offer. It does not appear that their situation has changed since these reports eight days ago.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why not let Theo go give him 4/48 and let him, Youk, and Gonzo rotate at 1B/3B/DH starting next year.

[Keeper]

Why not let Theo go give him 4/48 and let him' date=' Youk, and Gonzo rotate at 1B/3B/DH starting next year.[/quote']

 

I don't follow. You still have Ortiz in the mix. Four starters for three positions doesn't add up.

[a700hitter]

I don't follow. You still have Ortiz in the mix. Four starters for three positions doesn't add up.

Logjam!!!

[Palodios]

I've been proposing to move Ortiz to SS for years.

[Keeper]

Haha, SS problem solved.

[Rdsxmbnt]

 

So the A's go from probably a massive 5 year deal for Beltre to looking at one year contracts for fringe MRs? I can't even imagine what the reaction would be if a story like that was run in Boston.

[Will617]

I wonder if Beltre can play short.