The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[a700hitter]

9:26pm: Heyman tweets that the Red Sox might be willing to make the trade without signing Gonzalez to an extension. They might actually prefer to just talk about contract parameters now, then see how his surgically repaired shoulder holds up in Spring Training. In the off chance that the trade does not happen, the Padres would keep Gonzalez and not field offers.

I don't like the last sentence at all.

[Palodios]

I think this may be the article referring to Youk in Left field:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AoUlkm7oDTIp3qTRyiXeBBI5nYcB?slug=ti-jeteryankeesagreement120410

 

On the eve of the winter meetings, the Red Sox completed their swap of prospects for San Diego Padres first baseman and slugger Adrian Gonzalez(notes), who in their ballpark could become Manny Ramirez(notes) without the act. Leaning against re-signing third baseman Beltre and repositioning Kevin Youkilis(notes) in left field, the Red Sox remain engaged with outfielders Crawford and Werth. [/Quote]

[FredLynn]

What is the problem with his shoulder? What kind of surgery did he have?

 

He had his labrum "cleaned up". The labrum is the cartilage that comprises the socket of the ball and socket joint that makes up the shoulder. Its a weird joint, unstable mechanically unless the musculature around it (=the "rotator cuff") is strong. It would looks sort of like a volleyball articulating with a tea saucer. Too shallow; too big a ball. The hip also has a labrum, and thats what screwed up Mike Lowell. Cartilage in the body doesn't grow back, unfortunately. Thats why so many people need joint replacements. The injured shoulder in Gonzalez's case is in his non-throwing arm; however, when they go mucking around with cartilage, the possibility for permanently screwing things up is very real.

Yes, I am a doctor.

[a700hitter]

He had his labrum "cleaned up". The labrum is the cartilage that comprises the socket of the ball and socket joint that makes up the shoulder. Its a weird joint, unstable mechanically unless the musculature around it (=the "rotator cuff") is strong. It would looks sort of like a volleyball articulating with a tea saucer. Too shallow; too big a ball. The hip also has a labrum, and thats what screwed up Mike Lowell. Cartilage in the body doesn't grow back, unfortunately. Thats why so many people need joint replacements. The injured shoulder in Gonzalez's case is in his non-throwing arm; however, when they go mucking around with cartilage, the possibility for permanently screwing things up is very real.

Yes, I am a doctor.

Isn't the right arm the one he needs to get extension with for his power stroke. Could this cause his power to be diminished?

[italstallianion]

Isn't the right arm the one he needs to get extension with for his power stroke. Could this cause his power to be diminished?

 

 

It'll be counterbalanced by them moving the fences in at Fenway.

[example1]

A poster on SoSH has pointed out that there's a chance the Sox will wait to finalize a deal for a few months, having something to do with the way that luxury tax is calculated, particularly when it is calculated. By waiting until April the Sox won't take a luxury tax hit due to A-Gon's salary; it can apply to the 2012 season instead when more salary space is available. Otherwise they couldn't sign Werth or Crawford without taking a hit... or some such thing.

 

Honestly I didn't want to take the time to research or really understand it, but this FO knows what they are doing and if there is good reason to wait I have no reason to question it. They aren't going to include Casey Kelly and Rizzo and Fuentes just to have a guy for one season. They weren't willing to include Kelly this entire time, since they started discussing Gonzalez last year or before. They aren't suddenly going to add him for a very short term gain. It just isn't happening, no matter how stupid GoBruins thinks they are.

[a700hitter]

A poster on SoSH has pointed out that there's a chance the Sox will wait to finalize a deal for a few months' date=' having something to do with the way that luxury tax is calculated, particularly [i']when[/i] it is calculated. By waiting until April the Sox won't take a luxury tax hit due to A-Gon's salary; it can apply to the 2012 season instead when more salary space is available. Otherwise they couldn't sign Werth or Crawford without taking a hit... or some such thing.

 

Honestly I didn't want to take the time to research or really understand it, but this FO knows what they are doing and if there is good reason to wait I have no reason to question it. They aren't going to include Casey Kelly and Rizzo and Fuentes just to have a guy for one season. They weren't willing to include Kelly this entire time, since they started discussing Gonzalez last year or before. They aren't suddenly going to add him for a very short term gain. It just isn't happening, no matter how stupid GoBruins thinks they are.

It would only be fair for you to let Dipre use the Theo Blowup Doll for a while. You've had had it for 3 years.

[Dipre]

It would only be fair for you to let Dipre use the Theo Blowup Doll for a while. You've had had it for 3 years.

 

I have my own. But it doesn't have the same wear and tear as your David Ortiz/Jonathan Papelbon "Dream threesome" one.

[italstallianion]

Or Dojji's (insert underrated prospect here) dolls. Or Gom with anything NY and Middle Eastern.

[a700hitter]

I have my own. But it doesn't have the same wear and tear as your David Ortiz/Jonathan Papelbon "Dream threesome" one.

Come on. Everyone knows that I am a closet Yankee fan.

[Palodios]

Or Dojji's (insert underrated prospect here) dolls. Or Gom with anything NY and Middle Eastern.

 

They sure better mass-produce the A-gon models. I'm sure they'll be popular around here for a while

[a700hitter]

Do you think they will acquire an OFer this week?

[italstallianion]

I doubt that it'll be this week.

 

Anyway, here's an interesting article about the value of Beltre vs. the value of Gonzalez.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/gonzalez-vs-beltre/

[italstallianion]

Here's a spray chart of Gonzalez from last year superimposed onto Fenway. Look at all of the flyouts that would have been HR at Fenway. And that's not even factoring in that they might move the bullpen in a bit in right field.

 

 

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/italstallianion/gonzalez-spray-chart.jpg

[Dipre]

They sure better mass-produce the A-gon models. I'm sure they'll be popular around here for a while

 

Sign me up plz.

[a700hitter]

That's pretty encouraging.

[example1]

Do you think they will acquire an OFer this week?

 

I think Werth is going to be the guy. Don't know if it will be this week, but I expect heavy posturing toward Crawford and a substantial "take it or leave it" offer to Werth, which he will take with dollar signs in his eyes and Adrian Gonzalez as a new best friend.

 

Both of these guys, from all reports, are good to great clubhouse guys, team guys. If you're going to invest money, get guys you won't have to worry about in terms of effort, caring, maturity, etc.,

 

They don't like knuckleheads.

 

 

If they add Werth and Gonzalez, here are the two stat lines they can reasonably expect to add to the lineup to two of their open positions:

 

AVG season, last 3 years:

 

Gonzalez: 161 G, .285/..387/.523/.910, 36 HR, 106 RBI, 151 OPS+, 4.8 WAR

Werth: 150 G, .279/.376/.513/.889, 29 HR, 84 RBI, 132 OPS+, 4.2 WAR

 

FWIW, here are Beltre and Martinez's average seasons, last 3 years:

 

Beltre: 136 G, .286/.335/.471/.805, 20 HR, 74 RBI, 114 OPS+, 3.6 WAR

Martinez: 118 G, .298/.362/.462/.823, 15 HR, 74 RBI, 117 OPS+, 2.56 WAR

I think there's reason to believe that the addition of Werth and Gonzalez will be a significant net gain over Beltre and Martinez. They might also do better with draft picks as a bonus.

[The Celtbot]

Here's a spray chart of Gonzalez from last year superimposed onto Fenway. Look at all of the flyouts that would have been HR at Fenway. And that's not even factoring in that they might move the bullpen in a bit in right field.

 

 

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/italstallianion/gonzalez-spray-chart.jpg

 

That chart doesn't look right to me. He hit 30 something HR's last year, right? I'm not seeing that many of the blue dots indicating HR's. Even if you count up all the flyouts that would be HR's at Fenway, it still would only be in the low 30s which does not seem right.

[a700hitter]

That chart doesn't look right to me. He hit 30 something HR's last year' date=' right? I'm not seeing that many of the blue dots indicating HR's. Even if you count up all the flyouts that would be HR's at Fenway, it still would only be in the low 30s which does not seem right.[/quote']I think that's just his Petco chart-- not the away games.

[italstallianion]

That's because it's hit spray chart at Petco, so it's for about half of the games.

[italstallianion]

I think that's just his Petco chart-- not the away games.

 

 

Beat me this time you bastard. I swear we have to stop doing this at the same time.

[a700hitter]

Beat me this time you bastard. I swear we have to stop doing this at the same time.

Okay, we should agree to take different shifts to avoid duplicating posts.

[The Celtbot]

Ah, that makes sense. Don't mind me I've had a few margaritas and a beer. I'm going to bed now...

[a700hitter]

Ah' date=' that makes sense. Don't mind me I've had a few margaritas and a beer. I'm going to bed now...[/quote']That sounds like a good night.

[italstallianion]

Ah' date=' that makes sense. Don't mind me I've had a few margaritas and a beer. I'm going to bed now...[/quote']

 

 

It's ok, I had about 30 beers on the day, although technically we're into tomorrow now. I've been celebrating all day since we were getting Gonzalez. I can hardly form a coherent sentence at this point.

[Dipre]

Okay' date=' we should agree to take different shifts to avoid duplicating posts.[/quote']

 

Fine by me.

 

That reduces the amount of fat *******s online at any time by one. Now i only need to find a fat ******* to shift it up with myself.

[a700hitter]

It's ok' date=' I had about 30 beers on the day, although technically we're into tomorrow now. I've been celebrating all day since we were getting Gonzalez. I can hardly form a coherent sentence at this point.[/quote']So we agree with each other 100% after you have had about 30 beers.

[italstallianion]

I'm not fat, I'm festively plump.

[a700hitter]

My mother told m that I'm big-boned.

[Dipre]

Festively plump, big-boned, i've heard them all.

 

We're all simply fat, and specially you Ital.