The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[example1]

That is just not acceptable when they charge the highest ticket prices in baseball and have so many other lucrative income streams.

 

Why does them charging a lot of money (which is an optional expenditure, I might remind you) mean they have to spend money stupidly if that's the only way it can be spent? It doesn't make sense.

 

If the right deal for the ball club is there, they should make it/take it. If it isn't they shouldn't spend just to placate the "but the tickets are so expensive!" crowd.

 

Is going balls to the wall to get Carl Crawford (say, spending $5-6m year more than he is worth) worth more to you as a fan than if they signed the next 6-7 Anthony Ranaudo's that come out of college or high school?

[a700hitter]

So there just supposed to blow there money now just because they have it? They aren't allowed to save it so the can drop 150M in Agon's lap to secure him as the teams 1B for 2012-2018? That's just dumb.

 

The team will be fine with Youk going to 3B and the team bringing in a one year guy to keep the seat warm for Agon. Can you please not only look at the immediate upcoming season, and try to have a small margin of vision.

 

Even with no one signed they have something like 120M committed to next season. That's way more then most teams. So there not exactly stuffing it under their mattress.

There are moves that can be made to make the 2011 team not just competitive but elite. There are many avenues to take through trades and free agency, and I am confident that they will do what needs to be done. They realize that their fans will be watching the 2011 team, not the future. Teams that are building for the future at the expense of the present don't have as many fans watching or going to their games. The Red Sox owners and FO cares about keeping the ratings and attendance at high levels. It is their bread and butter.

[Northern Star]

There are moves that can be made to make the 2011 team not just competitive but elite. There are many avenues to take through trades and free agency' date=' and I am confident that they will do what needs to be done. They realize that their fans will be watching the 2011 team, not the future. Teams that are building for the future at the expense of the present don't have as many fans watching or going to their games. The Red Sox owners and FO cares about keeping the ratings and attendance at high levels. It is their bread and butter.[/quote']

 

So what kind of moves are you talking about? Werth? What about pitching? I've seen the FA list and it's not great.

[a700hitter]

So what kind of moves are you talking about? Werth? What about pitching? I've seen the FA list and it's not great.

To start with get Crawford. Greinke is being shopped. If they get Greinke, that could lead to moving Dice K to a west coast team for a bullpen piece or two. There are plenty of avenues and possibilities to build a very strong team in 2011.

[Northern Star]

To start with get Crawford. Greinke is being shopped. If they get Greinke' date=' that could lead to moving Dice K to a west coast team for a bullpen piece or two. There are plenty of avenues and possibilities to build a very strong team in 2011.[/quote']

 

Grienke will wilt under the pressure. I don't think Crawford is worth the $$$ he'll get. Good luck moving Dice-K.

[a700hitter]

Grienke will wilt under the pressure. I don't think Crawford is worth the $$$ he'll get. Good luck moving Dice-K.

The Greinke and Dice K moves are just examples of possible moves. Crawford is a superstar. When we play the Rays, we don't beat them unless we keep him off the bases. He has been a one man wrecking crew. He would be a force on the Sox.

[Palodios]

The Greinke and Dice K moves are just examples of possible moves. Crawford is a superstar. When we play the Rays' date=' we don't beat them unless we keep him off the bases. He has been a one man wrecking crew. He would be a force on the Sox.[/quote']

 

He kills the Sox but that's because of poor catching. Were Ellsbury on another team he would be equally devastating to the Sox, but he's not necessarily a game changer on the Sox.

[Northern Star]

The Greinke and Dice K moves are just examples of possible moves. Crawford is a superstar. When we play the Rays' date=' we don't beat them unless we keep him off the bases. He has been a one man wrecking crew. He would be a force on the Sox.[/quote']

 

The general definition of a superstar is someone capable of breaking the 20 HR and 100 RBI marks. His obp is too low to make up for the lack of power, and .851 ops is good but not elite by a long mark. If he costs Jason Bay money, that's one thing, but forget it if he's going to cost much more than that.

[a700hitter]

The general definition of a superstar is someone capable of breaking the 20 HR and 100 RBI marks. His obp is too low to make up for the lack of power' date=' and .851 ops is good but not elite by a long mark. If he costs Jason Bay money, that's one thing, but forget it if he's going to cost much more than that.[/quote']The 50 to 60 SBs is a nice dimension that the other superstars don't have.

[Northern Star]

The 50 to 60 SBs is a nice dimension that the other superstars don't have.

 

True, but how crucial is speed nowadays, really? Especially in the AL, with the extra thumper at DH? Don't get me wrong, I think stolen bases are great, but it just seems like a part of the game that isn't very prominent any more.

[a700hitter]

True' date=' but how crucial is speed nowadays, really? Especially in the AL, with the extra thumper at DH? Don't get me wrong, I think stolen bases are great, but it just seems like a part of the game that isn't very prominent any more.[/quote']It's very valuable to have the ability to manufacture runs, especially during a team's offensive slumps that happen during the season.

[Keeper]

True' date=' but how crucial is speed nowadays, really? Especially in the AL, with the extra thumper at DH? Don't get me wrong, I think stolen bases are great, but it just seems like a part of the game that isn't very prominent any more.[/quote']

 

Speed is back because juicers are out. It's a very important part of the game now.

[example1]

The speed is more than just a little important in the OF, where he is easily one of the best LFs in the game. Crawford is a dangerous threat on both sides of the ball.

 

My only hold ups for him are:

 

1) Not sure where he fits in this lineup (3rd?), especially because of the benefits of the L, R, L, R preference.

2) He will cost a lot

3) He seems vulnerable against good LH pitching. (.256/.696 v. LHP; .332/.930 v. RHP). We would prefer him to hit well against RHPs (which he does) but in the AL East there are some really good lefties who the Sox will need to beat.

 

I don't much care if he's a "superstar", that role may be limited to 5-10 players at any one time and he's not the most famous/impressive player. He's still very, very good.

 

I agree with others who see him signing in Anaheim. I think the Sox should be able to outbid just about anyone but the Yankees if they really want someone. I would be surprised to see them pay Crawford more than $17m a year, but I think it'll take at least $18.5 to get him.

[The Celtbot]

Grienke will wilt under the pressure. I don't think Crawford is worth the $$$ he'll get. Good luck moving Dice-K.

 

He would still be better than Dice-k. Greinke is really not that bad of a pitcher, just never has pitched for a good team. If he was the 5th starter, that would make for a damn good rotation.

[SCM33]

Greinke makes me nervous. His psyche is not strong enough for this market. I think hed be a train wreck here.

[Dojji]

Greinke makes me nervous. His psyche is not strong enough for this market. I think hed be a train wreck here.

 

I don't think so actually. Is being the 5th starter on a contending team with plenty of veteran leadership really more stressful than being the ace of a bad and badly led team that looks on you to be the one true face of the franchise?

[Palodios]

I don't think so actually. Is being the 5th starter on a contending team with plenty of veteran leadership really more stressful than being the ace of a bad and badly led team that looks on you to be the one true face of the franchise?

 

For the pieces that he will cost, Greinke would be expected to pitch like a #2, if not an ace.

[SCM33]

For the pieces that he will cost' date=' Greinke would be expected to pitch like a #2, if not an ace.[/quote']

 

Agree.

 

Also Dojji....how much pressure is there to pitch on a s***** team in KC? I would assume there isnt any because it really doesnt matter how he does.

 

If he comes here the bright lights will be on him. He has zero pressure right now and hes already a bit flaky and has had moments of weakness in terms of his psyche.

[Palodios]

Dan Uggla is reportedly being shopped after contract extension talks with the Marlins fell through. In 2010, he hit .287 and hit 33 home runs and has one more year of arbitration before hitting free agency. There is talk of him moving from 2B to either 3B or LF. He sounds like the best trade option I've heard so far.

[BSN07]

Dan Uggla is reportedly being shopped after contract extension talks with the Marlins fell through. In 2010' date=' he hit .287 and hit 33 home runs and has one more year of arbitration before hitting free agency. There is talk of him moving from 2B to either 3B or LF. He sounds like the best trade option I've heard so far.[/quote']

 

If they mean to put him in LF after next season then yes. Other then that he's blocking Agon, so no thanks.

[a700hitter]

If they mean to put him in LF after next season then yes. Other then that he's blocking Agon' date=' so no thanks.[/quote']If he isn't given a contract extension, wouldn't he be able to become a FA after 2011? If so, he wouldn't block AGon.

[Dojji]

I think Boston is more likely to be generous enough with Uggla to get an extension.

 

I'd look into it, Uggla is a nifty power hitter, but in the end he's a B+ player rather than a real franchise piece.

[BSN07]

If he isn't given a contract extension' date=' wouldn't he be able to become a FA after 2011? If so, he wouldn't block AGon.[/quote']

 

True, but I'm not sure it would be worth it to trade the talent it will take to get him, then let him walk as a FA after one season.

[a700hitter]

I don't think so actually. Is being the 5th starter on a contending team with plenty of veteran leadership really more stressful than being the ace of a bad and badly led team that looks on you to be the one true face of the franchise?

The issues that he had were over 2 years ago. Bouts with acute anxiety are not as likley to recur as other forms of mental illness. With our crack medical staff, he'd be more likely to come to the Sox with an undiagnosed shoulder injury.

[BSN07]

I think Boston is more likely to be generous enough with Uggla to get an extension.

 

I'd look into it, Uggla is a nifty power hitter, but in the end he's a B+ player rather than a real franchise piece.

 

He is younger and probably cheaper option then Werth more then likely. I really question his defense though. Is he going to be good enough in LF long term? I mean he would probably play 3B next season and move to LF is the Sox bring in a bopper for 2012 and beyond. But I guess if the Sox can hide defensive shortcomings at one position, it would be LF.

 

Would he take 4/ 13-15M per to play on a contender? Or is everyone thinking he's guaranteed 5 years wherever he goes?

[a700hitter]

True' date=' but I'm not sure it would be worth it to trade the talent it will take to get him, then let him walk as a FA after one season.[/quote']

Most of the guys in our minor leagues have no future with the Sox. They are roster fillers and trading chips. This is the kind of deal where you use them.

[BSN07]

The issues that he had were over 2 years ago. Bouts with acute anxiety are not as likley to recur as other forms of mental illness. With our crack medical staff' date=' he'd be more likely to come to the Sox with an undiagnosed shoulder injury[/b'].

 

Ok I have to admit I chuckled at this one.

 

For the pieces that he will cost' date=' Greinke would be expected to pitch like a #2, if not an ace.[/quote']

 

As far as where Grienke fits in and with what "expectations". I think he would be fine being #2-5 starter for Boston. It may take an Ace type package to get him. But Jon Lester is clearly the Ace of this staff. If healthy, he will be the opening day/#1 SP for the Red Sox for the duration of his prime.

 

I wouldn't even know where to start with how to order the rotation slots after Lester

 

Agree.

 

Also Dojji....how much pressure is there to pitch on a s***** team in KC? I would assume there isnt any because it really doesnt matter how he does.

 

If he comes here the bright lights will be on him. He has zero pressure right now and hes already a bit flaky and has had moments of weakness in terms of his psyche.

 

So he's never been able to pitch in a hostile environment? Does he not travel with the team on the road? Is there a certain number of fans that can be in the stadium before it reaches a level that will effect him? I don't believe his on field abilities pitching for a large market have ever been questioned. It's more to do with off the field stuff. How his lifetyle would be effected living in a larger market. I think he will be fine "pitching" for Boston. I would worry about the outside factors effecting him and ultimately having a bearing on his choice to stay in Boston long term or not. Because that is a key. If it's only for two years, it may not be worth the talent required t get him. If he is going to be with this teams 2012-2018 push then it would be.

[BSN07]

Lester

Grienke

Beckett

Buchholz

Lackey

 

That's probably how I go. But I'm sure I could be convinced of multiple ways to order it.

 

Tito's politically correct rotation would be something more like

 

Lester

Beckett

Lackey

Grienke

Buchholz

 

I'm not even sure if there is a bad way to set up that rotation. That is something that no other team in baseball could probably claim. Even with an average offense, the Red Sox I think would be the favorites going into next season.

[a700hitter]

I'm not even sure if there is a bad way to set up that rotation. That is something that no other team in baseball could probably claim. Even with an average offense' date=' the Red Sox I think would be the favorites going into next season.[/quote']There isn't, but I'd go with Greinke and Lackey as 4 and 5 in no particular order.

[Keeper]

If they got Greinke, my rotation would be:

 

Lester

Greinke

Buchholz

Beckett

Lackey