The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Meh]

I would trade Papelbon for the grandmothers of those respective prospects at this point. Greinke is in a very different league than Papelbon right now.

 

Sure are, but it's just on a differenct scale. Royals are setting themselves up to be a contender soon or I'd assume they are hoping for that. I'm not bashing your system, I'm just saying you don't trade a guy like Grienke just to trade him, you trade him to improve your chances be it today or tomorrow(meaning the 2011 season or future seasons)

[Meh]

Trading Grienke for future trade pieces or to make other top prospects expendable is just nuts, but thats my POV. Sorry if it doesn't gell with yours haha, don't know what else to say.

[Dipre]

Reddick isn't anything to write home about either... so he's moot here. Yeah they could move Colon, but why would they? haha, SS is a premier positon, might as well give him a chance to stay there. I'm not saying they are HOFers, but would you trade Papelbon for a 2B prospect and a 1B prospect? Probably not since you have Pedo at 2B and then have a gaggle of guys waiting at 1B if Youkie moves.

 

could you deal for him? yes... im not saying you couldn't if it was just the Red sox and Royals but other teams are going to get in the mix and almost with certainty they will match up better and probably have better stuff to trade.

 

Reddick is a good complimentary piece.

 

And they would move Colon (haha), because from reading about him online (exactly what you do, since you're no scout) i've read from at least a couple different sources that he could be moved to 2B if he gains more weight and loses a bit of range, which is a possibility, not to mention that having a 2B with his offensive potential is not exactly an MLB standard, but you conveniently ignore that.

 

I'm not high on Greinke, since i personally (note: personally) think he's a headcase. I'm just arguing the fact that the Sox couldn't prepare a package to get him, since your initial assessment was that they "don't match up well" a stance that you have softened up on once confronted with significant evidence stating otherwise.

[Dipre]

That's the flipside of my taking underrated prospects a little more seriously than most -- I also take highly rated prospects a bit less seriously until they start getting the job done in a way that suggests they're close.

 

I just noticed this, and i don't intend this comment as a personal attack, but this point of view makes absolutely no sense, but it is indeed exactly what you do.

 

Completely down on Clay Bucholz, but absolutely high on Daniel Nava.

 

Could you please think about this for 10 seconds?

 

There's a [million] reasons why most people have the exact opposite POV.

[Meh]

I'm not high on Greinke' date=' since i personally (note: personally) think he's a headcase. I'm just arguing the fact that the Sox couldn't prepare a package to get him, since your initial assessment was that they "don't match up well" a stance that you have softened up on once confronted with significant evidence stating otherwise.[/quote']

 

I don't think they match up, but I said if it was just you and the Royals could probably get the job done. Heck if its just two teams and one is trying to trade a disgruntled player I think almost anyone has a chance... I haven't softened up on that you don't match up, I'm just not the arguing type to be honest.

[example1]

What is it that KC needs?

 

Every team needs pitching and any team would be happy to have Kelly and Pimentel. Hell, there are many arms that never get mentioned but who could end up being really nice players for teams like KC.

[Dojji]

If I had to identify one player we had that the Royals would be most interested in it would easily be Ryan Kalish. Their vaunted farm system is rather short on outfielders and centerfielders in particular, and so is their big league squad (Gregor Blanco isn't half bad, but there isn't a lot of ceiling there). Kalish is a legit 5-tool CF prospect that came up last year, played in the majors and while he did not set the world on fire he also did not embarrass himself, demonstrating his abilities both as a power hitter and a baserunner. He as close to a true centerpiece to a Greinke deal as we have and I'm sure that any Greinke deal we propose would almost have to center around him..

[mvp 78]

It would take more than just a center of Kalish. Maybe Kelly and another decent prospect too.

[example1]

Too much IMO. Kalish shouldn't move, he's going to be an impact player. I would prefer that they package Ellsbury etc., for Adrian Gonzalez or something along those lines if Kalish is the make or break player. I see him as one of the key contributors during the proposed Lester, Buchholz, Greinke tenure.

[BSN07]

Too much IMO. Kalish shouldn't move' date=' he's going to be an impact player. I would prefer that they package Ellsbury etc., for Adrian Gonzalez or something along those lines if Kalish is the make or break player. I see him as one of the key contributors during the proposed Lester, Buchholz, Greinke tenure.[/quote']

 

I agree here. As much as I'd like them to add Grienke, it's not worth losing Kalish. And I'm still really wiry of trading anyone of note for a player that can be had for just $ in only 1 season(Agon) .Unless it's for a bunch of young A talent that is far off. But that's not the likely return SD is going to want. I think there are a fair number of 1 year options available this off season that would be better investment's. Worst case scenario is Agon get's traded elsewhere and signs an extension. But even then Fielder is likely a fall back option because he is probably 95% sure to hit the open market.

[Dojji]

Uhh guys? This is Greinke we're talking about, not Joe Schlubmore. You're not going to get anywhere trying to hold our potential impact guys out of any Greinke deal. It's BECAUSE Kalish is a potential impact guy that the deal is possible mostly with him in it.

 

Frankly no matter who you wanna try to trade for, it's going to be an effort to keep Kalish out of the deal, exactly because he's a potential 5 tool impact rookie that looks like he's nearly ready to serve as at least a solid leadoff type with a ceiling of far more than that. You think Hoyer isn't going to harp on getting Kalish in the deal for Gonzo? You think Milwaukee didn't scout Kalish and won't demand him in a Fielder trade? He's our most valuable commodity right now, and other GM's are going to ask.

[SCM33]

Sure are' date=' but it's just on a differenct scale. Royals are setting themselves up to be a contender soon or I'd assume they are hoping for that. I'm not bashing your system, I'm just saying you don't trade a guy like Grienke just to trade him, you trade him to improve your chances be it today or tomorrow(meaning the 2011 season or future seasons)[/quote']

 

KC has had 1 winning season in 18 years.

 

Yeah, you definitely know what you are talking about, KC really knows how to breed winners. Their system has done nothing but produce championships and division titles huh?

 

Nope, not bashing out system at all.....but somehow the pathetic KC Royals, a putrid baseball franchise can and will produce more than our current system.

 

Newsflash, idiots run your baseball team, dont get your hopes up....I promise you they will screw it up.

[Dojji]

SCM, the Royals minor league system is extremely highly regarded, much like the Rays' system was in 2007 or so with at least 7-8 potential impact talents coming up in the very near future (next 2-3 years). That's at minimum by the way, I can't see most of these guys not at least making the bigs.

 

I imagine you probably even wrote posts like this that the Rays would never be contenders in 2007 so you are at least consistent.

 

Even a team that's never gotten it right before can figure out a formula that works, and what Moore is doing in KC with revamping their international scouting and player development and being just behind the Sox as one of the most aggressive draft spenders is a move in the right direction at the very least. How he talked his largely absentee owners into that aggressive a draft budget I have no idea, but he did it and when his draftees start percolating up into the bigs in a serious way the Royals' fortunes should change dramatically for the better.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Royals system is ranked #1 on the BA rankings and should start showing their clout by about 2012 or 2013, once their guys get a season or two under their belts

[Dojji]

Three really excellent lefthanded starting potentials in Montgomery, Lamb and Duffy, especially the first two.

 

Three potential impact sluggers in Moustakas, Hosmer and Myers, the last of which is being tried in earnest as a catcher

 

Along with a really very nice SS and 2B prospect each within 18 months of big league readiness (Christian Colon at SS and Johnny Giavotella at 2B.) That's 8 guys with solid to great potential, all of which should have MLB service time under their belts by season after next.

 

They're a little light in the outfield, but since Myers and/or Moustakas may need to move out there that might not be the huge problem it appears to be. They're a great trade fit for anyone who's willing to part with a potential impact CF prospect since that's probably their one really big weakness right now. A MI to help provide some insurance in case Johnny G or CC busts out would be helpful but not something you swap a franchise ace you may have the money to resign for.

[Dipre]

Currently, the most aggressive draft and international talent spender is the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise. Not the Royals, not the Red Sox.

 

It's a model that small-market teams have begun employing much more aggressively after looking at the sustained success of teams like the Twins and Padres (to some extent) and the rags-to-riches story of the '08 Rays.

 

SCM, it's illogical to think a team with so much talent on the way in such a weak division won't reverse their fortunes in the next couple of years and vault into at least respectability. And that's the reason they should sell high on Greinke right now (just not to the Sox).

[jacksonianmarch]

Currently, the most aggressive draft and international talent spender is the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise. Not the Royals, not the Red Sox.

 

It's a model that small-market teams have begun employing much more aggressively after looking at the sustained success of teams like the Twins and Padres (to some extent) and the rags-to-riches story of the '08 Rays.

 

SCM, it's illogical to think a team with so much talent on the way in such a weak division won't reverse their fortunes in the next couple of years and vault into at least respectability. And that's the reason they should sell high on Greinke right now (just not to the Sox).

 

Jeebus, I agree with you 100%

[Dipre]

Jeebus' date=' I agree with you 100%[/quote']

 

Side-note: Holy s***, i'm beginning to see what you meant about the weather.

 

On-topic:

 

If Greinke's getting moved, he's probably getting moved for OF's and pitching.

[jacksonianmarch]

Just wait. It's 37 degrees in Kalamazoo now, wait until it is -37 degrees in January.

[Dipre]

I'm buying a shitload more stuff for the cold!

[jacksonianmarch]

2/3 of my entire wardrobe is cold weather clothing. Mostly because it is bigger. But you'll be in long sleeves and pants for 6 months or more out of the year when you cross the Mason Dixon line. And you crossed it by a lot. Hope you bought a snowsuit. Cause getting to class will be tough when there is about 3 feet of snow on the ground.

[BSN07]

Currently, the most aggressive draft and international talent spender is the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise. Not the Royals, not the Red Sox.

 

It's a model that small-market teams have begun employing much more aggressively after looking at the sustained success of teams like the Twins and Padres (to some extent) and the rags-to-riches story of the '08 Rays.

 

SCM, it's illogical to think a team with so much talent on the way in such a weak division won't reverse their fortunes in the next couple of years and vault into at least respectability. And that's the reason they should sell high on Greinke right now (just not to the Sox).

 

Well put.

[BSN07]

I'm buying a shitload more stuff for the cold!

 

Nothing like the first time you go outside and take a deep breath of air in and your nostrils stick together

[Dojji]

Nothing like the first time you go outside and take a deep breath of air in and your nostrils stick together

 

Lord yes. Maine isn't as bad as the upper midwest, but I do have a story of a nasty little cold snap where I walked out of my college dorm wearing a scarf that redirected my breath up into my glasses, fogging them up as I walked. It was irritating, but I managed to feel my way to the building I had my class in, then I pulled off my specs to polish off the...

 

Frost.

 

It was frost, like that kind you scrape off your windshield in the morning. The droplets had frozen in the like 5 minutes it took me to walk from one building to another even with my breath supplying a bit of extra warmth. I kept my glasses in my pocket anytime I wanted to go outside after that.

 

That was the year I got brain-freeze if I went anywhere without a warm hat and walking into a wind made my vision all blurry until I was afraid my eyes were freezing. I've had better months than that particular January.

 

Basically the cold generally isn't all that dangerous, but there are exceptions to that rule and you had better take a few precautions to make sure you're properly equipped. I found a warm hat and a 1 foot by 8 foot 2-ply scarf indispensible that winter. And I ain't exactly skin and bones here, I pity anyone trying to last too long in a northern winter without adequate ballast. Weight provides a natural core warmth reserve that really helps if you have to be out in the wind any length of time.

[SCM33]

I imagine you probably even wrote posts like this that the Rays would never be contenders in 2007 so you are at least consistent.

 

Nope, thanks for assuming though.

 

Is Alex Gordon still considered the next George Brett?

[Dipre]

Morals of the story:

 

When walking in the snow:

 

1) Wear a snowsuit.

 

2) Don't take deep breaths.

 

3) Don't wear glasses.

 

I've got it!

[SCM33]

SCM' date=' it's illogical to think a team with so much talent on the way in such a weak division won't reverse their fortunes in the next couple of years and vault into at least respectability. And that's the reason they should sell high on Greinke right now (just not to the Sox).[/quote']

 

I guess I can take a step back and agree with this.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gammons does not think VMart will be back

 

Peter Gammons told Boston-based WEEI.com this weekend that the Tigers are likely to make a hard charge at free agent catcher Victor Martinez.

 

"I don’t expect Victor Martinez to come back (to Boston)," Gammon said. "I think Detroit is going to give him four or five years. And I don’t think anybody else is going to give him four or five years to be a catcher." It will take big money, but the Tigers have shown in the past that they're not scared of hefty contracts. V-Mart hit .302 with 20 homers this past season.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I would really hate to see that.

[d-money]

Are you kidding me?Who would take V Mart's place?Varitek?