Clay Buchholz and the AL CY young

[Youker20]

i think its time to talk about this, the kid has been our best pitcher this year, most people are willing to just give it to cliff lee already, but why not buchholz? buchholz has better ERA by a large margin (2.36 for Buchholz and 2.77 for Lee), buchholz has 4 more wins and i know cliff lee has better whip but buchholz still has a top 11 whip in league... do you guys think buchholz has a real shot at winning cy young? I think hes most deserving in league.

[jacksonianmarch]

He wont win it for 3 reasons.

 

1. The sox are likely to miss the playoffs

2. Jon Lester is gonna steal a bunch of votes

3. His IP is probably going to be in the 180-190 range, and most CY's throw 200+ in a season

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't see why he doesn't have a real shot. Your right though. Most people are willing to give it to Cliff Lee. I honestly think Buchholz deserves it more just cause he is a Red Sox player I'm just messin but seriously though he has to be up there with Cliff Lee.

[redsoxrules]

I think the lack of innings pitched compared to everyone else is going to hurt his chances

[redsoxrules]

He wont win it for 3 reasons.

 

1. The sox are likely to miss the playoffs

2. Jon Lester is gonna steal a bunch of votes

3. His IP is probably going to be in the 180-190 range, and most CY's throw 200+ in a season

 

you're right on # 2 and 3 but not on # 1

 

playoffs has nothing to do with it

[jacksonianmarch]

A pitcher on a playoff team has a lot more pull than one on a non-playoff team, especially if the player isnt head and shoulders above all else

[callandor1000]

I think he has a real shot. If he pitches like he's pitched his last 5 outings, he'll get a lot of votes. I happen to disagree that if the Sox don't make the playoffs that Bucholz will be out of it. If the Sox completely tank, then he'll be out of it no matter what. But as it stands, the Sox could finish with the 3rd best record in baseball and still not make the playoffs.

 

I do think he needs to be within the 180 IP to have a chance. He can't let that ERA go up any, or the WHIP. Wins would be nice, too. If he can finish 18-5, or 19-5 and still keep a very similar ERA and WHIP Lee would be hard pressed to beat him out.

 

Lee hasn't pitched nearly as well in Texas as he has away so with some luck, his ERA or WHIP could find itself a bit further up come the end of the season.

[VA Sox Fan]

A pitcher on a playoff team has a lot more pull than one on a non-playoff team' date=' especially if the player isnt head and shoulders above all else[/quote']

 

Greinke, Lincecum?

[Dojji]

Buchholz is going to place second.

 

I'm more concerned that he keep making progress with his pitches. He's not quite all the way there yet. When he's mastered the contact stuff he's working on now and really learns how to balance his repertoire, there may yet still be better years for Buck.

[redsoxrules]

I think he has a real shot. If he pitches like he's pitched his last 5 outings, he'll get a lot of votes. I happen to disagree that if the Sox don't make the playoffs that Bucholz will be out of it. If the Sox completely tank, then he'll be out of it no matter what. But as it stands, the Sox could finish with the 3rd best record in baseball and still not make the playoffs.

 

I do think he needs to be within the 180 IP to have a chance. He can't let that ERA go up any, or the WHIP. Wins would be nice, too. If he can finish 18-5, or 19-5 and still keep a very similar ERA and WHIP Lee would be hard pressed to beat him out.

 

Lee hasn't pitched nearly as well in Texas as he has away so with some luck, his ERA or WHIP could find itself a bit further up come the end of the season.

 

Remember Beckett VS CC a few years ago? CC got the edge due to innings pitched

 

beckett had 200 and CC 240

[callandor1000]

Remember Beckett VS CC a few years ago? CC got the edge due to innings pitched

 

beckett had 200 and CC 240

 

But Beckett only really bested him in one area, and that was wins, and that was only by 1. CC had better ERA (not by much but still better), a better WHIP and more IP. Bucholz could finish up with as many as 4 more wins than Lee, a half a run better ERA and at least a pretty close WHIP. It'll be interesting, but I'd predict either way, the voting between those two will be really close.

[Will617]

Strikeouts also matter. Buchholz doesn't have a lot.

I think Lester's shot at the Cy Young is better than Buchholz's, despite Buch's better ERA and win total.

[redsoxrules]

But Beckett only really bested him in one area' date=' and that was wins, and that was only by 1. CC had better ERA (not by much but still better), a better WHIP and more IP. Bucholz could finish up with as many as 4 more wins than Lee, a half a run better ERA and at least a pretty close WHIP. It'll be interesting, but I'd predict either way, the voting between those two will be really close.[/quote']

 

.06 difference of era in favor of CC , Beckett had 1 more win , better K/9 . there WHIP were even at 1.14 . they were pretty much even

the difference was that CC had more innings pitched

[WhiskeyBreath]

Strikeouts also matter. Buchholz doesn't have a lot.

I think Lester's shot at the Cy Young is better than Buchholz's, despite Buch's better ERA and win total.

 

Looks like Lester's early season struggles are going to impact his chance for a Cy every year until he can get them figured out.

[Palodios]

Looks like Lester's early season struggles are going to impact his chance for a Cy every year until he can get them figured out.

 

His ERA has been down to 2.70s on a few occasions this season-- as early as june 5th--, before having a bad outing or two that shot it up again. His 4 game losing streak really hurt him-- although I keep mentioning that they directly coincided with the 10 days before and after his wife gave birth to his first child. He's going to be an elite pitcher for years to come, and I do think if he wasn't distracted off the field, he'd have an ERA closer to 2.40, with 15 wins, essentially putting him directly in the running for the award.

[jacksonianmarch]

Greinke' date=' Lincecum?[/quote']

 

Greinke was head and shoulders above everyone last yr. As was Lincecum

[Palodios]

I don't remember the last time a CY Young race was so all over the place. Weaver leads in strikeouts, Buchholz leads ERA, Sabathia leads in wins, Felix leads IP, and Cliff Lee WHIP.

 

No player truly stands out-- for every player with strengths, they have weaknesses. Felix's 8 wins ruin his chances, Price's 1.26 WHIP can't help his case, Buchholz's IP, and Cliff Lee lack of quality starts show why he's low on wins. Cahill could have a shot, but most people have never even heard of the guy, including myself.

 

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on Price. He's leading a group of elite young pitchers to the playoffs. He's got a ton of wins, his ERA is great, and everyone knows who he is. Plus, the other two guys I'd put money on, Cliff Lee hasn't been great since going to Texas, and Felix just has half the wins Price has.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Lee's been very good since being traded to Texas. It's just his last 2 starts against NY and TB that has screwed up his ERA a bit.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't remember the last time a CY Young race was so all over the place. Weaver leads in strikeouts, Buchholz leads ERA, Sabathia leads in wins, Felix leads IP, and Cliff Lee WHIP.

 

No player truly stands out-- for every player with strengths, they have weaknesses. Felix's 8 wins ruin his chances, Price's 1.26 WHIP can't help his case, Buchholz's IP, and Cliff Lee lack of quality starts show why he's low on wins. Cahill could have a shot, but most people have never even heard of the guy, including myself.

 

If I had to bet, I'd put my money on Price. He's leading a group of elite young pitchers to the playoffs. He's got a ton of wins, his ERA is great, and everyone knows who he is. Plus, the other two guys I'd put money on, Cliff Lee hasn't been great since going to Texas, and Felix just has half the wins Price has.

 

Exactly the reason why headlining a winning team is gonna be so crucial

[Jasonbay44]

Greinke was head and shoulders above everyone last yr. As was Lincecum

 

How was Lincecum "head and shoulders" above everyone else last year? It was a very close race between him, Carpenter and Wainwright, in fact I think Wainwright should of won.

[Will617]

Cliff Lee is averaging over 8 IP a start. IMO if he doesn't win it's a travesty.

[Will617]

How was Lincecum "head and shoulders" above everyone else last year? It was a very close race between him' date=' Carpenter and Wainwright, in fact I think Wainwright should of won.[/quote']

 

Close race, but damn...261 strikeouts. Lincecum also pitched almost as many innings, had a better ERA, and a substantially better WHIP.

[Palodios]

Lee's been very good since being traded to Texas. It's just his last 2 starts against NY and TB that has screwed up his ERA a bit.

 

Very good is not going to get it done as the Cy Young of the Year of the Pitcher. He's allowed 4+ runs in 4 of his 8 games with Texas this season. David Price has only allowed 4+ runs in two games ALL SEASON. He has just been far and beyond more consistent than any other pitcher-- besides Felix, who has 8 wins.

[WhiskeyBreath]

The race is going to go down to the wire.

[jacksonianmarch]

Close race' date=' but damn...261 strikeouts. Lincecum also pitched almost as many innings, had a better ERA, and a substantially better WHIP.[/quote']

 

Last yr, Lincecum nearly doubled Carpenter's K totals while having similar WHIP and ERA. Plus, Tim threw 30 more innings. He had nearly 50 more K's than Wainwright and had him beat by a fair margin in ERA and WHIP. He was far and away the best pitcher in the NL last yr, but it was a close vote since his team sucked and his win total suffered because of it

[Palodios]

Well, it looks like Lester won't be stealing any votes from Buchholz now.

[soxfan74]

Buchholtz is the Ace of this staff right now. He absolutely has a shot. If it where not for his stint on the D.L. he and Price would probably be neck and neck. His innings pitched would be alott closer as well. As far as the playoff thing that can go out the window. Neither Greinke nor Lee made the playoffs. Add Halladay to the non playoff list of Cy young winners as well.

[a700hitter]

Buchholtz is the Ace of this staff right now. He absolutely has a shot. If it where not for his stint on the D.L. he and Price would probably be neck and neck. His innings pitched would be alott closer as well. As far as the playoff thing that can go out the window. Neither Greinke nor Lee made the playoffs. Add Halladay to the non playoff list of Cy young winners as well.

Post season awards like MVP and Cy youn and Gold Gloves are popularity contests. They don't interest me at all.

[Yaz Sideburn]

both lee and price struggled today, buchholz pitches tomorrow. here are the updated stats

 

price - 162.2 ip, 2.97 era, 1.24 whip

lee - 174.2 ip, 3.09 era, 0.98 whip

buchholz - 133.1 ip, 2.36 era, 1.19

 

if buchholz continues to rack up the 7-8 inning starts, he has a realistic shot at this thing. when greinke won last year, he pitched for a non-contender and threw less innings than any of the other pitchers in the top 5 of the voting. his era was only .33 points better than his runner up felix hernandez. compare this to buchholz whose era is .61 points better than price

[Palodios]

Cahill 148.2 ip, 2.54 era, .99 whip.

Hernandez 197.0 ip, 2.51 era, 1.13 whip

 

These guys are pretty much in the race too.