The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[Dipre]

Fielder has alternated between very good and' date=' well, kinda good seasons. His slugging (by season) goes .483, .618, .507, .602, .482. I'm sure he'll be fine in a Sox uni, but I'd rather see the Sox signing Pujols or AGon and moving Youkilis to third. If the Sox would be willing to get Fielder, I don't know why they wouldn't just acquire Dunn (who fans more and hits for a little less power, but also plays much better defense at first base), unless they're looking to acquire Fielder to DH, something Dunn is adamant that he won't do.[/quote']

 

Adam Dunn averages 71 XBH and 40 HR's per season in his career, Prince Fielder averages 71 XBH and 37 HR's per season in his career. While Fielder is more prone to the "monster season" Adam Dunn is the model of consistency. I'd go with Dunn every day of the week and twice on Sundays, specially now that he can fake it at 1st and could be useful playing LF at Fenway.

[Palodios]

Fielder has alternated between very good and' date=' well, kinda good seasons.[/quote']

 

No. He alternates between very good and very great. An .883 OPS does not qualify as "kinda good".

[Palodios]

Adam Dunn averages 71 XBH and 40 HR's per season in his career' date=' Prince Fielder averages 71 XBH and 37 HR's per season in his career. While Fielder is more prone to the "monster season" Adam Dunn is the model of consistency. I'd go with Dunn every day of the week and twice on Sundays, specially now that he can fake it at 1st and could be useful playing LF at Fenway.[/quote']

 

I mentioned him earlier and definitely agree. Dunn had a 4.2 WAR this year and Fielder had a 3.9. They are comparable players, and besides the first round pick, Dunn will cost far far less in prospects and money.

[BSN07]

The Red Sox "have a lot of interest" in Cubs third baseman Aramis Ramirez, reported ESPN's Bruce Levine in a chat yesterday. It is assumed Ramirez will exercise his $14.6MM player option for 2011, and the clubs would have to work around issues of a no-trade clause and an assignment bonus.

[Palodios]

Surprising-- If they trade for Ramirez and extend him, he will be 33 when that extension goes through, and the Red Sox have made it clear that they don't like signing older guys for long contracts.

[Interestedobserver]

Fielders only question will be health. The kid swings a much quicker bat from the left side. Cecil could get into one' date=' but Prince is a more well rounded hitter[/quote']

 

 

I think everybody agrees Prince is well rounded.

[Cocos Disciples]

I think everybody agrees Prince is well rounded.

 

Fat joke?

[Dojji]

I want no part of Aramis Ramirez, and I doubt Theo's doing much more than kicking the tires anyway.

[Yaz Sideburn]

according to olney the red sox and angels both have a lot of interest in crawford

 

 

sounds good to me. he's a better overall player than werth

[Yaz Sideburn]

Surprising-- If they trade for Ramirez and extend him' date=' he will be 33 when that extension goes through, and the Red Sox have made it clear that they don't like signing older guys for long contracts.[/quote']

 

it wouldn't be much different than signing beltre, who will be 32, to a longterm deal

[SCM33]

according to olney the red sox and angels both have a lot of interest in crawford

 

 

sounds good to me. he's a better overall player than werth

 

Not going to happen. The interest probably has other motives, like driving up the price.

[SCM33]

Millwood wants to play for a contender. What kind of money do you think he will be looking for? If its short money, maybe he could used to light a fire under the asses of DiceK, Beckett and Lackey.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-0930,0,1070742,print.story

[example1]

Slugging was down from .602 to .482. That is not too shabby' date=' but it is the lowest of his career. The .883 OPS is down from 1.014 and it is below his career average. Lastly, why would we spend a lot of money on Fielder when a supposedly washed up Ortiz exceeded Fielder's production ?[/quote']

 

In 2010:

Fielder gets on base at a .430 rate against RHP and a .339 OBP against LHP.

Ortiz gets on base at a .411 rate against RHP and a .273 OBP against LHP.

 

Fielder is much younger and entering his prime. He's younger than Jon Lester and his OBP looks like those of the MLB's elite hitters. His plate control is excellent.

 

Adam Dunn averages 71 XBH and 40 HR's per season in his career' date=' Prince Fielder averages 71 XBH and 37 HR's per season in his career. While Fielder is more prone to the "monster season" Adam Dunn is the model of consistency. I'd go with Dunn every day of the week and twice on Sundays, specially now that he can fake it at 1st and could be useful playing LF at Fenway.[/quote']

 

I'm a fan of Dunn for sure and won't complain if they get him, but Fielder seems like the bigger fish to me. We're talking about a guy who is a year younger than Jacoby Ellsbury, has finished 3rd and 4th in MVP voting and who is a two time all-star as one of the NL's most feared hitters. He's going into his age 27 season and, as many have noted, even if he's going to "weight-out" eventually, it shouldn't be sudden and a 4 or 5 year investment seems safe for a DH.

 

Dunn and Fielder after their age 26 season:

 

[table] player | G | PA | HR | RBI | BB | K | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ | Total Bases |

Dunn | 821 | 3466 | 198 | 466 | 574 | 927 | .245 | .380 | .513 | .892 | 129 | 1452 |

Fielder | 830 | 3490 | 192 | 534 | 451 | 668 | .280 | .385 | .537 | .922 | 140 | 1579 [/table]

 

I love Dunn's consistency and would be fine with him on a 3 year deal or so. I just think there's a chance that Fielder could be an offensive piece they could build around for many years. He shares the Sox offensive approach and there is a spot at DH moving forward. I like Adrian Gonzalez even more, but the cost for next season would likely be prohibitive.

[a700hitter]

In 2010:

Fielder gets on base at a .430 rate against RHP and a .339 OBP against LHP.

Ortiz gets on base at a .411 rate against RHP and a .273 OBP against LHP.

 

Fielder is much younger and entering his prime. He's younger than Jon Lester and his OBP looks like those of the MLB's elite hitters. His plate control is excellent.

Ortiz has a higher Slugging percentage and OPS than Fielder. He'll have a much cheaper price tag than Fielder for a much shorter time commitment. The extra money could be used to sign VMart who could take a break from behind the plate to DH against the tougher lefties. VMart hits lefties much better than Fielder or Ortiz. On those days Tek, who still hits lefties pretty well, could man the plate.

[Palodios]

it wouldn't be much different than signing beltre' date=' who will be 32, to a longterm deal[/quote']

 

Definitely-- that was sort of the point. It really makes no sense to pick up A-ram unless they can get a bargain on him.

[Palodios]

I love Dunn's consistency and would be fine with him on a 3 year deal or so. I just think there's a chance that Fielder could be an offensive piece they could build around for many years. He shares the Sox offensive approach and there is a spot at DH moving forward. I like Adrian Gonzalez even more' date=' but the cost for next season would likely be prohibitive.[/quote']

 

What it comes down to is costs. Fielder is going to cost prospects. He's going to cost money. He's going to have risks. Adam Dunn is clearly not the better player, but if they go with Dunn this year, they still have the opportunity to pick up A-gon/Fielder or in a beautiful ideal world Pujols later on.

[Dojji]

Can I just butt in here with a mention of a serious possible Plan C?

 

Paul Konerko is still a pending FA, and if Fielder's a no-go and Dunn signs elsewhere, the Sox need to kick the tires on a short-ish term deal, maybe 2-3 years. He's a good righthanded stick and has been fairly consistent for Chicago. Not a worldbeater by any stretch but a solid power hitting guy who could play the field if needed. That might be useful depending on whether we can keep Beltre and/or how well we could replace him. I don't trust either Dunn or Fielder to play the field for 130 games, Konerko could actually do that if the situation called for it.

 

Heck, if Beltre walks, go after both Konerko and Dunn/Fielder. You take a defensive hit but the offense makes up for it and as a nice little bonus you trade a first and a second for four picks (two for beltre, two for Ortiz).

[a700hitter]

Can I just butt in here with a mention of a serious possible Plan C?

 

Paul Konerko is still a pending FA, and if Fielder's a no-go and Dunn signs elsewhere, the Sox need to kick the tires on a short-ish term deal, maybe 2-3 years. He's a good righthanded stick and has been fairly consistent for Chicago. Not a worldbeater by any stretch but a solid power hitting guy who could play the field if needed. That might be useful depending on whether we can keep Beltre and/or how well we could replace him. I don't trust either Dunn or Fielder to play the field for 130 games, Konerko could actually do that if the situation called for it.

 

Heck, if Beltre walks, go after both Konerko and Dunn/Fielder. You take a defensive hit but the offense makes up for it and as a nice little bonus you trade a first and a second for four picks (two for beltre, two for Ortiz).

Konerko will not leave Chicago.

[Dojji]

Until they sign him he's an option.

[Palodios]

Konerko will not leave Chicago.

 

"It's pretty easy from my standpoint. You can't really do anything for a while. It will just come up and the decisions will have to be made when they come. But the main thing is to finish up these last games. I don't dread the future as far as I think I'm in a pretty good place to make decisions. Whatever comes will come, and I'm in a good place no matter what happens. I feel like it's been a good run here and if it continues, it continues, and if it doesn't, it doesn't."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5603956&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

 

Sounds like he's willing to consider other options to me.

[a700hitter]

"It's pretty easy from my standpoint. You can't really do anything for a while. It will just come up and the decisions will have to be made when they come. But the main thing is to finish up these last games. I don't dread the future as far as I think I'm in a pretty good place to make decisions. Whatever comes will come, and I'm in a good place no matter what happens. I feel like it's been a good run here and if it continues, it continues, and if it doesn't, it doesn't."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5603956&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

 

Sounds like he's willing to consider other options to me.

That's a negotiating posture. If he says that he wants to stay, he shows his hand and risks getting a low offer. I wouldn't put much stock in that. The real question is whether the White Sox want to go in another direction. If they do, I wouldn't be surprised if Konerko went across town to the Cubbies.

[a700hitter]

Here's the Roster that I would like to see on opening day with one undecided spot:

 

Catchers: VMart and Tek

 

IF: Youk, Pedroia, Scutaro, Beltre, Lowrie

 

DH: Ortiz

 

OF: Drew, Ellsbury, Cameron, Werth/Crawford, Kalish

 

Starters: Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice K

 

Bullpen: Papelbon, Bard, Dubront, Downs, Feliciano, Atchinson, open spot

[Dojji]

I'd go after Putz or Dotel for that open spot. One of the two should be available. Of the two I prefer Putz. I like the idea of hard-throwing righties in Fenway with that deep right field to contain their mistakes.

[a700hitter]

I'd go after Putz or Dotel for that open spot. One of the two should be available. Of the two I prefer Putz. I like the idea of hard-throwing righties in Fenway with that deep right field to contain their mistakes.

Me too, and I have never been a Dotel fan.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Not going to happen. The interest probably has other motives' date=' like driving up the price.[/quote']

 

i disagree. crawford would improve this team quite a bit and make us less dependent on the long ball, i think it makes sense that our front office would be interested in him

[Dipre]

Am i the only one who thinks Werth is a better overall fit on the Red Sox than Crawford?

[Will617]

Am i the only one who thinks Werth is a better overall fit on the Red Sox than Crawford?

 

I like Werth better. I don't like Aramis Ramirez or Millwood. I like Ortiz better than Fielder, but only because he's cheaper; I don't think that a mediocre year (from Fielder's perspective) or a good year for Ortiz (in his mid-30s, no less) represents how good they actually are.

I was also mistaken about Dunn and Fielder's power - I swear my eyes said Fielder had a substantially higher ISO.

[Station 13]

Am i the only one who thinks Werth is a better overall fit on the Red Sox than Crawford?

 

Werth is closer to a 3-4 hitter than Crawford, which we need. We have Ellsbury/Kalish as a type of crawford players, only at a fraction of the cost.

[Keeper]

Am i the only one who thinks Werth is a better overall fit on the Red Sox than Crawford?

 

No. I would say Werth's particular skill set is more in line with the organization's general offensive philosophy. And if Ortiz or Beltre doesn't return, a hole will need to be filled in the middle of the order. Werth could fill that hole rather nicely.

[BSN07]

Definitely-- that was sort of the point. It really makes no sense to pick up A-ram unless they can get a bargain on him.

 

Or they use him for next season to fill the 3B spot(also RH power) and let him walk at the end of the year. Thus opening a spot up for Agon, Prince, Pujols so on and so forth. It's a 1 year deal. That's it.