The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[Will617]

Ellsbury and Lowrie for Rasmus please.

 

Rasmus is getting his trade value nuked right now. I don't think the Cardinals could even get Ellsbury for Rasmus.

[WhiskeyBreath]

And what do you think happened to Ellsbury's trade value this year?

[Dojji]

Not much. Freak rib injuries don't hurt value nearly as much as apparent major attitude problems.

 

I don't think that once Ells is finally all healed up, he'll be any more likely to rebreak his ribs than he was to break them in the first place. It's not likely to be a chronic issue. Rasmus' going nose to nose with the management on the other hand is a much bigger problem exactly because it might happen again.

[Will617]

He had a freak injury that shouldn't be a long-term concern, but yeah I guess his trade value has fallen. The difference is that the Cardinals might be looking to move Rasmus, while the Sox aren't looking to move Ellsbury.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Not much. Freak rib injuries don't hurt value nearly as much as apparent major attitude problems.

 

I don't think that once Ells is finally all healed up, he'll be any more likely to rebreak his ribs than he was to break them in the first place. It's not likely to be a chronic issue. Rasmus' going nose to nose with the management on the other hand is a much bigger problem exactly because it might happen again.

 

LMFAO

[Dojji]

Hey, you want to overreact to a freak injury be my guest. 30 GM's out of 30 want Ellsbury on their team, I promise you that.

[WhiskeyBreath]

His trade value is down. You cannot deny that.

[mvp 78]

The cards will get better offers than Ells and Lowrie.

[Dojji]

His value didn't decline by all that much. About the only thing we've proved that might lower his trade value is that he isn't as aware of the 3B as he might need to be in order to play left field safely which is what resulted in the collision with Beltre. Not a surprise considering that as a natural CF he's playing out of position in left in the first place.

 

Beyond that, what new information is actually out there that negatively effects his value? That a direct knee-on-ribcage collision while running top speed will result in fractured ribs? That's hardly unique to Ellsbury.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I'm sure they would. That's why I said please.

[Dojji]

The cards will get better offers than Ells and Lowrie.

 

We'll see if someone overreacts. Teams won't line up to pay more than they feel they have to.

 

No denying Rasmus is WORTH a great deal in trade, but the situation may lower the actual sale price more than we think right now.

[WhiskeyBreath]

His value didn't decline by all that much. About the only thing we've proved that might lower his trade value is that he isn't as aware of the 3B as he might need to be in order to play left field safely which is what resulted in the collision with Beltre. Not a surprise considering that as a natural CF he's playing out of position in left in the first place.

 

Beyond that, what new information is actually out there that negatively effects his value? That a direct knee-on-ribcage collision will result in fractured ribs? That's hardly unique to Ellsbury.

 

His value is down because attitude has been called into question and clearly the Sox aren't as high on his defense as most fans think they are.

[Dojji]

His attitude is called into question? Not by any serious baseball person I've ever read. Yeah, the WEEIdiots have had their say, but if a man's got broken ribs, he's got broken ribs. There's injuries you can play through and injuries you can't -- broken ribs fall in the second category.

 

And he tried to hasten the rehab and get back quickly. Twice. And wound up reinjuring himself each time. He would have been better off showing a bit of "attitude" and telling the team and the fans to GFY until he wasn't at risk of reaggravating the injury. And by that I mean, WE would have been better off.

 

Moral of the story here is don't believe that the WEEIdiots know what they're talking about.

[mvp 78]

Hahaha, because saying GFY is nothing compared to Rasmus sulking for how mismanaged he's been by LaRussa...

[WhiskeyBreath]

Sorry. Don't listen to talk radio. It's clear that you do.

[Dojji]

Alright then, what serious, actual baseball mind, credited and listened to by actual rational people, has been calling Ellsbury's attitude into question?

 

And quit the attempted pissing contest. Not playing. If you want to back off and admit you're wrong, fine, but turning this into something where we both spend days saying "no, YOUR mom" is just idiotic.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Are you f***ing serious?

[Dojji]

I'm beginning to wonder whether you are.

 

You made the allegation, come up with the evidence. Or, you know, shut up, either one works for me.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Alright then, what serious, actual baseball mind, credited and listened to by actual rational people, has been calling Ellsbury's attitude into question?

 

Tim McCarver, Joe Buck, Joe Morgan, Chris Berman, Jim Rome, John Rocker and Mumbles Menino.

 

How's that list bro?

[WhiskeyBreath]

Stop getting so f***ing defensive about Ellsbury. You're acting like I'm bashing the guy. I'm not.

 

It's a wonder you haven't choked on the guys balls yet.

[Dojji]

Tim McCarver, Joe Buck, Joe Morgan, Chris Berman, Jim Rome, John Rocker and Mumbles Menino.

 

How's that list bro?

 

And now many of these people have you not called an idiot sometime in the last 12 months?

 

Just curious about this one. We'll get to the point of whether you might actually deign to furnish a link sometime between now and Armageddon later.

[Dojji]

Stop getting so f***ing defensive about Ellsbury. You're acting like I'm bashing the guy. I'm not.

 

It's a wonder you haven't choked on the guys balls yet.

 

Testy are we?

 

Look, if you don't want to back up your statement fine, we'll leave it at that, I'm just curious how deep you'll dig before you realize the goal is to get OUT of the hole.

[WhiskeyBreath]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/848/1278338832851.jpg

[Dojji]

So your rational response to the points I raised amounts to nothing more than the bronx salute.

 

*sigh*

 

I was hoping you'd actually put some thought and research into a position before you call someone else crazy for disagreeing with it. Ahh well, that's just me, I guess. Always much too optimistic.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I won't waste my time arguing with you. It's a lost cause. No matter how obvious something is or how much evidence someone presents, you will defend "your guys" no matter what. Sorry dude.

[BSN07]

Tim McCarver, Joe Buck, Joe Morgan, Chris Berman, Jim Rome, John Rocker and Mumbles Menino.

 

How's that list bro?

 

Not saying your wrong, but that list is suspect and doesn't defend your position as much as you probably were hoping.

 

McCarver is babbling baboon. Buck knows his stuff. Morgan is another mouth breather. Berman is really a football guy. Rome likes to stir the pot. John Rocker? And the last I'm unfamiliar with.

[Spudboy]

Menino is the Mayor of Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not much. Freak rib injuries don't hurt value nearly as much as apparent major attitude problems.

 

I don't think that once Ells is finally all healed up, he'll be any more likely to rebreak his ribs than he was to break them in the first place. It's not likely to be a chronic issue. Rasmus' going nose to nose with the management on the other hand is a much bigger problem exactly because it might happen again.

 

Ellsbury's trade value took a major tumble. He needs to build it back up next season, which is why I think he stays in Boston next yr

[a700hitter]

Ellsbury's trade value took a major tumble. He needs to build it back up next season' date=' which is why I think he stays in Boston next yr[/quote']There's no reason to sell low on this guy and his trade value has plummeted. No one knows what was going on with his injury situation, not even the Red Sox. No one will give us value in return. He's the opening day starting LFer or CFer in 2011.

[Yaz Sideburn]

His value is down because attitude has been called into question and clearly the Sox aren't as high on his defense as most fans think they are.

 

his poor defense was my largest criticism of him but it looked like his defense improved quite a bit this year. it's one of the things he worked on in the offseason