Fire Francona

[rhet]

But they have a lot of guys with high RBI totals.

 

But not as many as they need.

 

They also need better pitching.

[Dipre]

But not as many as they need.

 

They also need better pitching.

 

RBI's, runs scored, and batting average. All ya need.

[Wheelssps]

Actually' date=' that describes me. I like the sport, [b']so either way I'm satisfied[/b], as long as the Yankees don't win. I don't see what's wrong with generalizing with game as opposed to specific teams.

 

Pretty much every post of yours is your public display of spending your days thinking of ways to be dramatically UNsatisfied with the Sox. Just saying.

[Wheelssps]

RBI's' date=' runs scored, and batting average. All ya need.[/quote']

 

And a good amount of luck. When they had their run two years ago, they had numerous people playing near career high AND were also incredibly healthy all year. If they have more than an injury or two, they don't have the Plan B that some others teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have with the ability to pick up missing pieces as the season goes along. We'll see if they can get a run of luck this year, but odds are probably against it over the course of the season.

[Dipre]

And a good amount of luck. When they had their run two years ago' date=' they had numerous people playing near career high AND were also incredibly healthy all year. If they have more than an injury or two, they don't have the Plan B that some others teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have with the ability to pick up missing pieces as the season goes along. We'll see if they can get a run of luck this year, but odds are probably against it over the course of the season. [/quote']

 

The middle part of that bullpen is awfully weak. I was just messing with rhet "RBI's are everything". Tampa needs a lot of things to break just right for them to make a run.

[TheMino007]

Just like everything broke for them the right way in 08. It won't happen again.

[Dojji]

I'd be careful about saying "won't" without qualifying it with a "probably."

[Wheelssps]

The middle part of that bullpen is awfully weak. I was just messing with rhet "RBI's are everything". Tampa needs a lot of things to break just right for them to make a run.

 

Yeah, I got that with the RBI's bit. I know what you and others here think of RBI's as a metric. I was just commenting on how many factors came together to enable the Rays run in 08 was and how many of the same things would need to go right again this year to have another run.

[Dipre]

Yeah' date=' I got that with the RBI's bit. I know what you and others here think of RBI's as a metric. I was just commenting on how many factors came together to enable the Rays run in 08 was and how many of the same things would need to go right again this year to have another run.[/quote']

 

Offense and defense are not going to be a problem, but a weak bullpen cost them last year, and unless Howell comes back effective, it will cost them again, Price needs to step up and no injuries must befall the pitching staff, if any of these aspects fail, it will be very hard for the Rays to get on the playoff train.

[Teleporting Mike Cameron]

Price definitely looked good tonight the rays scare me a lot.

[YeAuldBroade]

I wasn't going to click on this thread because of the really stupid title.... but I'm glad I did, you guys crack me up.

 

Still a dumbass thread.

[Spudboy]

I wasn't going to click on this thread because of the really stupid title.... but I'm glad I did, you guys crack me up.

 

Still a dumbass thread.

 

There isn't much love for Francona on Talksox. Lot's of really smart armchair managers, though.

[Dipre]

Some not-so-smart armchair managers as well. Creator of this thread being a perfect example.

[YeAuldBroade]

Yeah any manager that in only able to bring two world series titles to a team that hadn't won since 1918 should be run out of town on a rail. Methinks there are too many people on this board with short memories - - or not in a position to have any memory of what a bad manager was really like (see "the gerbil" for reference)

[Dipre]

Francona's an interesting case. He's a so-so tactician, but his real value comes from being able to control the raging Boston media, and keeping a clubhouse that's usually filled with high-price talent mellow and loose. Players love him, the media loves him, and we should appreciate that those traits outweigh any and all "mental lapses" if we can call them that, that he has on the field.

[BSN07]

Francona's an interesting case. He's a so-so tactician' date=' but his real value comes from being able to control the raging Boston media, and keeping a clubhouse that's usually filled with high-price talent mellow and loose. Players love him, the media loves him, and we should appreciate that those traits outweigh any and all "mental lapses" if we can call them that, that he has on the field.[/quote']

 

Co-signed

[WhiskeyBreath]

Francona's an interesting case. He's a so-so tactician' date=' but his real value comes from being able to control the raging Boston media, and keeping a clubhouse that's usually filled with high-price talent mellow and loose. Players love him, the media loves him, and we should appreciate that those traits outweigh any and all "mental lapses" if we can call them that, that he has on the field.[/quote']

 

I love this post :thumbsup:

[TedWilliams101]

I like Francona, but I just don't get how he has a habit of making bone-headed decisions.

 

However, when it comes situations like yesterday with facing a lethal hitter with 1st base open, the greedy guy in me says "walk him" while the baseball fan in me says "don't be a coward, pitch to him". I've always felt that the int walk was a cowardly thing to do and I give props to pitchers/managers with the cojones to pitch to them, even if they get burned.

[Emmz]

http://www.changetowin.org/connect/WindowsLiveWriter/TheJerkStoreCalled_9F9D/castanza_thumb3.jpg

 

:lol:

 

I think I have a pretty good counter for him, but I don't think he's crafty enough to come up with it, so I won't tell him

[jacksonianmarch]

EEI had an interview with Terry, where he said he was losing sleep over the DH spot and Ortiz' production. Anyone think it is kinda early to start paving the road for Ortiz to leave the lineup?

[Dipre]

I like Francona, but I just don't get how he has a habit of making bone-headed decisions.

 

However, when it comes situations like yesterday with facing a lethal hitter with 1st base open, the greedy guy in me says "walk him" while the baseball fan in me says "don't be a coward, pitch to him". I've always felt that the int walk was a cowardly thing to do and I give props to pitchers/managers with the cojones to pitch to them, even if they get burned.

 

Two exceptions to this: Joe Mauer and Albert Pujols. Interestingly enough, Mauer burned us twice yesterday because of Francona's reluctance to "be a coward".

[jacksonianmarch]

Being a coward in baseball is typically the better move. But, in his defense, the Twins lineup has two MVP caliber players batting 3-4, so walking Mauer to get to Morneau is a tough decision as well

[Dipre]

Being a coward in baseball is typically the better move. But' date=' in his defense, the Twins lineup has two MVP caliber players batting 3-4, so walking Mauer to get to Morneau is a tough decision as well[/quote']

 

Mauer has no platoon issues. Morneau is much more vulnerable against LHP.

[a700hitter]

For years Francona watched opposing pitchers walk or work around Ortiz and/or Manny. If you face them both, one is bound to burn you. Sometimes both will burn you and wreck your pitcher. I guess he doesn't remember.

[TheMino007]

Francona is a below average manager. His in game decisions for the most are questioned by everyone, but they guy wasn't brought in to be a manager. He was brought in to be a baby sitter, he was brought in to keep the players happy. He was hired to keep Manny and Pedro happy and convince Schilling to accept a trade to Boston. He really is a players manager, b/c he sticks with vets waaaay to long and doesn't discipline players when they need it. In my opinion not much coaching is needed in baseball anyway, but Francona does do a great job with the players and handling the scrutiny of the media day in an day out. But ask yourself, how many times have you actually thought, wow, that was a good call or a smart move by Francona?

[YeAuldBroade]

Francona's an interesting case. He's a so-so tactician' date=' but his real value comes from being able to control the raging Boston media, and keeping a clubhouse that's usually filled with high-price talent mellow and loose. Players love him, the media loves him, and we should appreciate that those traits outweigh any and all "mental lapses" if we can call them that, that he has on the field.[/quote']

RIGHTEOUS!

[Dipre]

Francona is a below average manager. His in game decisions for the most are questioned by everyone' date=' but they guy wasn't brought in to be a manager. He was brought in to be a baby sitter, he was brought in to keep the players happy. He was hired to keep Manny and Pedro happy and convince Schilling to accept a trade to Boston. He really is a players manager, b/c he sticks with vets waaaay to long and doesn't discipline players when they need it. In my opinion not much coaching is needed in baseball anyway, but Francona does do a great job with the players and handling the scrutiny of the media day in an day out. But ask yourself, [b']how many times have you actually thought, wow, that was a good call or a smart move by Francona?[/b]

 

Unfair.

 

The bad things always outweigh the good things in people's minds.

[YeAuldBroade]

People don't notice the good moves. If the pinch-hitter gets a hit - credit goes to the hitter. If the reliever gets the big out - credit to the reliever. How many credit Fancona with Roberts steal? You know it was Francona that called it.

[Dojji]

Right, and when the manager pulls the starter at the right time, props always go to the starter. Too late or too early though, all the blame to the manager.

 

In other words it's nearly impossible for a manager not to suck in the perception of the fans of his team. Tito does enough off the field to make up for not living up to the unreasonable expectations every baseball fan puts on their team's managers. That skillset probably serves us better than an in-game tactician who didn't have it would. Especially in a sports town as utterly judgmental when things go wrong as Boston can be.

 

It's kinda the Bill Belichick model. The manager manages the media as well as the in-game tactics, and his job is to take as much extraneous crap on his own shoulders, and off the shoulders of his players, as he can. Your skill as a manager or coach is determined by your abilities in both areas. Tito's the master of that in a baseball context. heck, half the time he'll take the blame for things that are only marginally his fault just to allow a guy like Ramon Ramirez, or Mike Timlin back in the day, to continue to function.