RIP Red Sox 2010 Season (and my credibility)

[rhet]

So Youkilis, Pedroia, Drew are all fielding poorly?

 

 

You asked me about the team as a whole, not about three individual players.

The team as a whole is fielding poorly. That is obvious.

[Dojji]

So Youkilis' date=' Pedroia, Drew are all fielding poorly?[/quote']

 

That's only 3 out of 8, and only 1 of them plays an up the middle position.

 

You're really grasping to say this defense has been anything but a disappointment so far. Scutaro's struggles have been really pronounced, and he was never that great a defensive SS to begin with (he wasn't really bad, but he's never been a GG defender at short either and UZR/150 isn't that fond of his range).

 

Combine that with our well known and documented issues behind the plate and the absence of both our best CF's and we have a kind of perfect storm of defensive suck in the worst possible positions to have problems -- SS, CF, and C. That trumps Youk's, Pedroia's and Drew's excellent performance at 1B, 2B and RF respectively IMHO., and Beltre's inconsistency at 3B doesn't help matters as much as a guy like Beltre should be doing -- I mean defense is supposed to be his big thing FFS.

[Dipre]

That's only 3 out of 6, and only 1 of them plays an up the middle position.

 

You're really grasping to say this defense has been anything but a disappointment so far. Scutaro's struggles have been really pronounced, and he was never that great a defensive SS to begin with (he wasn't really bad, but he's never been a GG defender at short either and UZR/150 isn't that fond of his range).

 

Combine that with our well known and documented issues behind the plate and the absence of both our best CF's and we have a kind of perfect storm of defensive suck in the worst possible positions to have problems -- SS, CF, and C. That trumps Youk's, Pedroia's and Drew's excellent performance at 1B, 2B and RF respectively IMHO., and Beltre's inconsistency at 3B doesn't help matters as much as a guy like Beltre should be doing -- I mean defense is supposed to be his big thing FFS.

 

Sweeping generalizations are never correct. It was a logical fallacy, and i pointed it out. The rest is you putting words in my mouth.

[Dojji]

I'm sorry, but it's not really a sweeping generality. The Boston Red Sox are weak up the middle and it's a serious problem. And I mean weak in defensive talent, not just current performance. I don't think you can really afford to downplay that.

 

Even in the best case scenario we have a 37 year old CF who looks like he's lost a step or two, and a 34 year old SS who's been about half a tick below average at that position for his career, as well as 2 catchers not known for their arms even in their primes which were years ago in one case, and on the way out in the other.

 

Even if you list Beltre among our major defensive assets, all of our competent defenders not named Dustin Pedroia are corner players.

[Dipre]

You asked me about the team as a whole, not about three individual players.

 

Stop trying to put words into my mouth.

 

Wait.

 

So Youkilis, Drew and Pedroia aren't part of the team?

 

"The team as a whole" means the whole team, not two thirds of it.

[Dipre]

I'm sorry' date=' but it's not really a sweeping generality. The Boston Red Sox are weak up the middle and it's a serious problem.[/quote']

 

Let me ask you a question: What does "The team as a whole" mean?

 

It's a simple question.

[a700hitter]

McDonald is a passable CF' date=' and Youkilis, Pedroia and Drew and playing up to their usual standards. Sweeping generalizations are never correct.[/quote']You are the one in panic mode. You are in denial about the current state of this team, and you are in a panic to defend it. The defense has been bad. The bullpen has 3 reliable arms. The team has no speed with Ellsbury out. It has no thumper if Ortiz can't turn it around. It takes three hits or walks to score a run due to the lack of big power and speed. That is a recipe for an inconsistent offense. To top it all off , the best two teams in the league are in our Division with 5 and 6 game leads and we are not out of April. This is not a bright picture.

[Dojji]

Let me ask you a question: What does "The team as a whole" mean?

 

It's a simple question.

 

OK, what it means in practical terms is that the excellent performance of 3 good players can be overcome by the horrible performance of 5 mediocre players, especially if 3 of the 5 play up the middle positions and only 1 of the 3 does.

[rhet]

Wait.

 

So Youkilis, Drew and Pedroia aren't part of the team?

 

"The team as a whole" means the whole team, not two thirds of it.

 

:D:D

 

That's right Dipre. The team as a whole is fielding poorly. Six of the nine defensive positions, including the most important ones, are well below average.

 

That is obvious.

[Dipre]

For the record, i'm only f***ing with you guys.

 

To set the record straight, the way i see it, the D currently sucks, but i think (Emphasis on think) that when the starting lineup is complete the team will play a lot better in every aspect of the game.

 

*Cue firing squad*

[a700hitter]

For the record, i'm only f***ing with you guys.

 

To set the record straight, the way i see it, the D currently sucks, but i think (Emphasis on think) that when the starting lineup is complete the team will play a lot better in every aspect of the game.

 

*Cue firing squad*

I thought you had become demented. Whew.

[rhet]

For the record, i'm only f***ing with you guys.

 

To set the record straight, the way i see it, the D currently sucks, but i think (Emphasis on think) that when the starting lineup is complete the team will play a lot better in every aspect of the game.

 

*Cue firing squad*

 

Nice.

I'll remember that bailout strategy next time I get my ass handed to me...

[Dipre]

I thought you had become demented. Whew.

 

Points:

 

Scutaro is not as bad as he's looked, but he's not very good either. I was openly ridiculed on the board for suggesting A-Gon or Adam Everett as purely defensive stopgaps. Time will tell if i was right.

 

Beltre's the best fielder on this team. He will get it together and play up to his usual standards. I wholeheartedly disagree with the assesment that he has stone hands. He's pressing. It's all in his head.

 

Cameron, once healthy, will be Mike Cameron.

 

Wait for more predictions in my own version of the "Fearless prediction" thread.

[Dipre]

Nice.

I'll remember that bailout strategy next time I get my ass handed to me...

 

It's not a bailout. But i know you love them because i hand your ass to you at least twice a week.

 

And for the record, the "Team as a whole" is still a sweeping generalization and a logical fallacy. I wasn't referring to your idiot statement, but rahter a700 and Doiji, who jumped the fray. You're still a biased knee-jerk.

 

Beltre has stone hands. LOL!

[Spudboy]

You are the one in panic mode. You are in denial about the current state of this team' date=' and you are in a panic to defend it. The defense has been bad. The bullpen has 3 reliable arms. The team has no speed with Ellsbury out. It has no thumper if Ortiz can't turn it around. It takes three hits or walks to score a run due to the lack of big power and speed. That is a recipe for an inconsistent offense. To top it all off , the best two teams in the league are in our Division with 5 and 6 game leads and we are not out of April. This is not a bright picture.[/quote']

 

How many times is it necessary to state the obvious. This team just does not have all pieces to play at a championship level. And many of the pieces currently playing every day are not performing to expectations.

[a700hitter]

Points:

 

Scutaro is not as bad as he's looked, but he's not very good either. I was openly ridiculed on the board for suggesting A-Gon or Adam Everett as purely defensive stopgaps. Time will tell if i was right.

 

Beltre's the best fielder on this team. He will get it together and play up to his usual standards. I wholeheartedly disagree with the assesment that he has stone hands. He's pressing. It's all in his head.

 

Cameron, once healthy, will be Mike Cameron.

 

Wait for more predictions in my own version of the "Fearless prediction" thread.

Counter Points:

 

No good fielder should ever look as bad as Scutaro has looked. He has been approaching Lugo-esque.

 

Beltre's hands are good, but his head is a stone.

 

Cameron... I watched him on the Mets when he was much younger, and he did not impress me then. He's a good fielder, but he's an old CFer who is not a top fielder anymore.

[Dipre]

Championship quality is a team that can make the playoffs. Once you're in there (Unless it's Minessota versus the Yankees) all bets are off.

[a700hitter]

How many times is it necessary to state the obvious. This team just does not have all pieces to play at a championship level. And many of the pieces currently playing every day are not performing to expectations.

It is obvious... isn't it.

[Dipre]

Counter Points:

 

No good fielder should ever look as bad as Scutaro has looked. He has been approaching Lugo-esque.

 

 

You can't counter my saying he sucks by saying he sucks.

[Dipre]

It is obvious... isn't it.

 

The Florida Marlins and Saint Louis Cardinals strongly disagree. All you need for a legitimate shot to win it all is making the playoffs.

[a700hitter]

You can't counter my saying he sucks by saying he sucks.

Don't call it a counter. Call it a reinforcement.

[Dojji]

I think we're all hoping that Iglesias can turn it on.

 

that or Lowrie gets healthy, but while I'm wishing for a freaking miracle I might as well wish for a Hanley Ramirez trade.

[a700hitter]

The Florida Marlins and Saint Louis Cardinals strongly disagree. All you need for a legitimate shot to win it all is making the playoffs.

I'd be much more confident if we were chasing the Mets or the Brewers.

[Dipre]

I'd be much more confident if we were chasing the Mets or the Brewers.

 

I'd be more worried if it wasn?t so early. Maybe it's just me, but Tampa simply doesn't intimidate me as much.

[a700hitter]

I'd be more worried if it wasn?t so early. Maybe it's just me' date=' but Tampa simply doesn't intimidate me as much.[/quote']Oh, you aren't scared shitless that they have turned every game against us in the last 2 years into a damn track meet and that we can't seem to keep Crawford off the bases or keep Longoria in the area code? Or that we can't plug a gap in the OF with all the speed they have out there? They worry me.

[Dojji]

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss TB's staying power. They've got a better middle of the lineup than we've got, between Zobrist, Pena and Longoria, and they picked up a closer from somewhere other than the Bargain Bin this year -- that to me signifies that they think they have a legit chance. I can't say they're wrong. Their rotation, while young and a bit unproven, is a match for ours in raw talent and their defense is arguably better even when both teams are at their best especially up the middle (Bartlett> Scutaro, Navarro>Tek/VMart, Upton>37YO Cameron). Add Zobrist's versatility, which is a HUGE hole-filling asset to them, and really they're probably better built for a deep run -- or to sustain injuries and the kind if **** that happens over the course of a regular season -- than we are.

[Dipre]

Oh' date=' you aren't scared shitless that they have turned every game against us in the last 2 years into a damn track meet and that we can't seem to keep Crawford off the bases or keep Longoria in the area code? Or that we can't plug a gap in the OF with all the speed they have out there? They worry me.[/quote']

 

It's not us against Tampa. It's us and them against the rest of the league.

 

I honestly don't know how anyone can think this team doesn't have the "Championship pieces blablabla", in the playoffs, this team's pitching is the one no one will want to face, and as far as i'm concerned, pitching wins championships. The adage is always correct, unless it's people who want to bash the team. Can't have it both ways.

[Palodios]

How many times is it necessary to state the obvious. This team just does not have all pieces to play at a championship level. And many of the pieces currently playing every day are not performing to expectations.

 

While you may be right, I don't think its fair to judge this team until the starting pitcher fires up and the team stabilizes. The back end of the bullpen sucks, so what do you think is going to happen when most pitchers leave in the 5th or 6th inning? The rotation is too good to be pitching like it is-- its not like some of us are overly optimistic about them reaching their potentials, its about them playing at career averages.

[Dipre]

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss TB's staying power. They've got a better middle of the lineup than we've got' date=' between Zobrist, Pena and Longoria, and they picked up a closer from somewhere other than the Bargain Bin this year -- that to me signifies that they think they have a legit chance. I can't say they're wrong. Their rotation, while young and a bit unproven, is a match for ours in raw talent and their defense is arguably better even when both teams are at their best especially up the middle (Bartlett> Scutaro, Navarro>Tek/VMart, Upton>37YO Cameron). Add Zobrist's versatility, which is a HUGE hole-filling asset to them, and really they're probably better built for a deep run -- or to sustain injuries and the kind if **** that happens over the course of a regular season -- than we are.[/quote']

 

You conveniently forgot to mention the rest of that bullpen, as well as just how unproven the back of that rotation is. On offense, there's no question.

[Dipre]

While you may be right' date=' I don't think its fair to judge this team until the starting pitcher fires up and the team stabilizes. The back end of the bullpen sucks, so what do you think is going to happen when most pitchers leave in the 5th or 6th inning? [b']The rotation is too good to be pitching like it is-- its not like some of us are overly optimistic about them reaching their potentials, its about them playing at career averages[/b].

 

Excellent assesment.