Hall of Fame Denies Dawson's Request for Cubs Hat

[a700hitter]

They are going to make him go in with an Expos hat. They aren't even a team anymore. There is no history for that team like the Brooklyn Dodgers. Are there any Expos fans that are nostalgic for baseball? Let him go in with the Cubs hat.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Baseball-Hall-of-Fame-denies-Andre-Dawson-Cubs-request-must-enter-as-Expo-012710

[Youk Of The Nation]

Well, being associated with the Expos is somewhat less embarrassing than being associated with the Cubs, sooo...

[Youk Of The Nation]

And by the way, Wade Boggs can kiss my ass for making them alter the 'player's choice' rule in the first place.

[Imperial59]

They are going to make him go in with an Expos hat. They aren't even a team anymore. There is no history for that team like the Brooklyn Dodgers. Are there any Expos fans that are nostalgic for baseball? Let him go in with the Cubs hat.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Baseball-Hall-of-Fame-denies-Andre-Dawson-Cubs-request-must-enter-as-Expo-012710

 

I'm with Youk. Don't be mad at the Hall, be mad at Wade Boggs!

[a700hitter]

And by the way' date=' Wade Boggs can kiss my ass for making them alter the 'player's choice' rule in the first place.[/quote']I thought it was Winfield that caused the change.

[a700hitter]

This Newsflash just in: Roger Clemens has stated that he will not attend his induction unless he is wearing a Yankee cap on his plaque. I think he'd go in wearing a ski cap about now. He used to piss me off with that BS.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I was pretty sure it was Boggs rumored to be taking a large sum from TB to wear their hat in the Hall.

[Imperial59]

I thought it was Winfield that caused the change.

 

I think it was the Boggs rumor which made the largest difference, but you're right in that the Hall didn't officially change the rule until 2001, the year Winfield chose to go in as a Padre.

[example1]

I think this is a good thing. The Expos are not a team anymore, but they were at one point, and the HOF is about both achievement and history.

 

The Expos were always my second favorite team as a youngster and I went to a number of games in Montreal. For a relatively obscure franchise, a number of very good players played there, including Gary Carter, Tim Raines, Dennis Martinez, Andres Galaraga, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, John Wettland, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Vlad Guerrero.

 

Having them represented a bit in the Hall honors the fact that they were a team in Major League Baseball for 35 years. Interestingly they were the Expos for 10 years longer (1969-2004) than the "Dodgers" were Brooklyn's team (1932-1957). Of course the Dodgers were more influential.

[Imperial59]

I think this is a good thing. The Expos are not a team anymore, but they were at one point, and the HOF is about both achievement and history.

 

The Expos were always my second favorite team as a youngster and I went to a number of games in Montreal. For a relatively obscure franchise, a number of very good players played there, including Gary Carter, Tim Raines, Dennis Martinez, Andres Galaraga, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, John Wettland, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Vlad Guerrero.

 

Having them represented a bit in the Hall honors the fact that they were a team in Major League Baseball for 35 years. Interestingly they were the Expos for 10 years longer (1969-2004) than the "Dodgers" were Brooklyn's team (1932-1957). Of course the Dodgers were more influential.

 

I think it's a good thing as well. Dawson played almost twice as many years in Montreal as he did in Chicago. To me, it makes sense that he goes in as an Expo.

 

An the Expos are a historical part of MLB history. There are a good many people in Montreal who miss having a baseball team. It's interesting when you go there how many Expos hats you see for sail. Obviously, you see a lot more Canadiens hats. But the Montreal logo has taken on an iconic status for Montreal pride.

[26 to 6]

I'm with Youk. Don't be mad at the Hall' date=' be mad at Wade Boggs![/quote']

Word...f***ing Devil Rays, what a joke!

 

But I don't disagree with the Hall here, he spent almost twice as much time with the Expos than he did with the Cubs and IMO is remembered as more of an Expo than a Cub. And as much of an embarrassment as the Expos are, a lot of people still have a soft-spot for them, including me, so it's good to see them recognizing their history.

[a700hitter]

Montreal was more significant to baseball history because it was the AAA Affiliate to the Brooklyn Dodgers and Jackie Robinson first broke the color barrier game there before they brought him to Brooklyn. The Expos were an embarrassment of a franchise. As has been pointed out, they had man great players, but yet they could never draw fans or make money and they ended up as a MLB welfare case. Every major league franchise that has existed is represented in other exhibits in the Hall. There's no reason to make Dawson wear a hat of a defunct and failed franchise that never had many fans. When he is inducted there will probably be more people that will make the trip from Chicago than Montreal

[26 to 6]

Well idk, you might be surpried Montreal's not too far from Cooperstown.

 

But I agree and there's no denying the Expos failure as a franchise, but they were a franchise nonetheless and their great players should be recognized as such. When/if Vlad gets inducted into Cooperstown I would make a case for him to don an Expos cap on his plaque as well.

[a700hitter]

Interestingly they were the Expos for 10 years longer (1969-2004) than the "Dodgers" were Brooklyn's team (1932-1957). Of course the Dodgers were more influential.

This is one of those cases where the written words and statistics fail to convey an accurate picture. Personal histories and experiences need to fill the gaps to give an accurate picture. Saying what you said above is like people who are not from Massachusetts mispronouncing Worcester, Ma, or people not from NY pronouncing Houston Street like the City of Houston. Let me set the record straight. My Dad grew up walking distance from Ebbetts Field and he spent a lot of his youth there. He was born in 1918. I asked him about this Brooklyn Robins thing years ago. The Brooklyn team became the Dodgers in 1911. In 1913 or 1914, Wilbert Robinson was hired to be the manager. The franchise renamed themselves the Robins in his honor. Not surprisingly, the fans still called them the Dodgers, because no one likes the manager after all. I don't know how the newspaper accounts treated things in those days, but the community never took to the "Robins" name. The important fact to note in making the comparison to the Expos is that, whether they were called the Superbas, Dodgers, Trolley Dodgers, or Robins, it was the same franchise in Brooklyn from 1890 to 1955. They had a lot more history in the community than the Expos had in Montreal.

[Dojji]

Eventually baseball will return to Montreal, I feel. Realistically the city and surrounding area are more than big enough to support a team. I don't think it's nearly weak enough as a market to become the first town, ever, that baseball abandoned and didn't come back to.

 

If they do come back I feel they'd to best as an American League team. As the Expos of the National League, they really had no immediate neighbors and had to really work to find rivalries to get people excited about. In the AL they'd benefit from immediate regional rivalries with Toronto and Boston, as well as the Camden Yards Effect for both Sox and Yankee fans, which would help buoy up the franchise while it started over trying to build a local fanbase.

[a700hitter]

Eventually baseball will return to Montreal, I feel. Realistically the city and surrounding area are more than big enough to support a team. I don't think it's nearly weak enough as a market to become the first town, ever, that baseball abandoned and didn't come back to.

 

If they do come back I feel they'd to best as an American League team. As the Expos of the National League, they really had no immediate neighbors and had to really work to find rivalries to get people excited about. In the AL they'd benefit from immediate regional rivalries with Toronto and Boston, as well as the Camden Yards Effect for both Sox and Yankee fans, which would help buoy up the franchise while it started over trying to build a local fanbase.

I really wouldn't hold my breath on this. The ending there was quite ugly. Other than Milwaukee, that set attendance records in the 1950's and led in attendance for several years, what city has baseball returned to after it left and been successful? I don't count Seattle. The Pilots lasted 1 year. That was a complete botch job. I don't count NY either, because baseball never entirely left NY, and the Dodgers left because of stadium issues with NYC, not because the franchise could not succeed. Washington has had two failed franchises and they seem to be in the midst of a third failure. Kansas City is the only one that I can think of.

[Imperial59]

Eventually baseball will return to Montreal, I feel. Realistically the city and surrounding area are more than big enough to support a team. I don't think it's nearly weak enough as a market to become the first town, ever, that baseball abandoned and didn't come back to.

 

If they do come back I feel they'd to best as an American League team. As the Expos of the National League, they really had no immediate neighbors and had to really work to find rivalries to get people excited about. In the AL they'd benefit from immediate regional rivalries with Toronto and Boston, as well as the Camden Yards Effect for both Sox and Yankee fans, which would help buoy up the franchise while it started over trying to build a local fanbase.

 

I doubt it. With the way they feel about the Habs, there's really only room for one team there.

[26 to 6]

This is one of those cases where the written words and statistics fail to convey an accurate picture. Personal histories and experiences need to fill the gaps to give an accurate picture. Saying what you said above is like people who are not from Massachusetts mispronouncing Worcester' date=' Ma, or people not from NY pronouncing Houston Street like the City of Houston. Let me set the record straight. My Dad grew up walking distance from Ebbetts Field and he spent a lot of his youth there. He was born in 1918. I asked him about this Brooklyn Robins thing years ago. The Brooklyn team became the Dodgers in 1911. In 1913 or 1914, Wilbert Robinson was hired to be the manager. The franchise renamed themselves the Robins in his honor. Not surprisingly, the fans still called them the Dodgers, because no one likes the manager after all. I don't know how the newspaper accounts treated things in those days, but the community never took to the "Robins" name. The important fact to note in making the comparison to the Expos is that, whether they were called the Superbas, Dodgers, Trolley Dodgers, or Robins, it was the same franchise in Brooklyn from 1890 to 1955. They had a lot more history in the community than the Expos had in Montreal.[/quote']

Thank you, when I saw that I was going to say exactly everything u said, but I was ate for class and didn't have time. The Dodgers played in Brooklyn since 1883 (they moved to the NL from the American Association for the 1890 season) and have always been unofficially referred to as the Dodgers (or Trolley-Dodgers) despite their official nickname. Upon further research though, I learned that they never even had an official name until '32, prior to that all their names were "unofficial" nicknames. Their official name until 1932 was the Brooklyn National League Baseball Club, but regardless to the people of Brooklyn and baseball fans they were always the Dodgers.

[a700hitter]

Thank you' date=' when I saw that I was going to say exactly everything u said, but I was ate for class and didn't have time. The Dodgers played in Brooklyn since 1883 (they moved to the NL from the American Association for the 1890 season) and have always been unofficially referred to as the Dodgers (or Trolley-Dodgers) despite their official nickname. Upon further research however, they never even had an official name until '32, prior to that all their names were "unofficial" nicknames. Their official name until 1932 was the Brooklyn National League Baseball Club, but regardless to the people of Brooklyn and baseball fans they were always the Dodgers.[/quote']Sometimes the best research about baseball is an old man that lived near the ballpark.

[26 to 6]

Eventually baseball will return to Montreal, I feel. Realistically the city and surrounding area are more than big enough to support a team. I don't think it's nearly weak enough as a market to become the first town, ever, that baseball abandoned and didn't come back to.

 

If they do come back I feel they'd to best as an American League team. As the Expos of the National League, they really had no immediate neighbors and had to really work to find rivalries to get people excited about. In the AL they'd benefit from immediate regional rivalries with Toronto and Boston, as well as the Camden Yards Effect for both Sox and Yankee fans, which would help buoy up the franchise while it started over trying to build a local fanbase.

I agree with all of that, they just need to get some local support behind the idea. Montreal is a beautiful city and could definitely support a team if there was interest. Even though they didn't draw much, walk through Montreal today and you'll see tons of people still wearing Expos hats (part of which is a fashion statement, but still). I think a big thing is getting a stadium in place. I figure people got tired of going to the O to watch games, and I can't blame them.

 

As for the AL, I agree with that notion to an extent. I've heard the argument several times before and have a hard time deciding which would be best. Geographically it would be best with Toronto, Cleveland, Boston, the Yanks, and O's not too far, but it would be impossible for them to compete in the AL East, especially at first, which is going to draw fans away.

[26 to 6]

Sometimes the best research about baseball is an old man that lived near the ballpark.

I couldn't agree more, and it's also the most enjoyable as well. I love hearing old stories from my relatives about going to the Stadium or hopping on the train and heading over to the Polo Grounds for games. I think the thing I love most about baseball is the way it connects generations as the love of the game gets passed down through families. I know I fell in love when I was 4 years old sitting with my uncle sorting out his thousands of baseball cards.

[26 to 6]

I really wouldn't hold my breath on this. The ending there was quite ugly. Other than Milwaukee' date=' that set attendance records in the 1950's and led in attendance for several years, what city has baseball returned to after it left and been successful? I don't count Seattle. The Pilots lasted 1 year. That was a complete botch job. I don't count NY either, because baseball never entirely left NY, and the Dodgers left because of stadium issues with NYC, not because the franchise could not succeed. Washington has had two failed franchises and they seem to be in the midst of a third failure. Kansas City is the only one that I can think of.[/quote']

I think it may be too early to call the Nats a failure, I think the organization has some promise.

 

As for other cities, you could say Baltimore after the Yankees left after 1902, but they never had a problem supporting their minor league Orioles before the Browns moved there. But other than KC and Miwaukee, you're right there really are no other good examples. I would include Seattle too though.

[26 to 6]

I doubt it. With the way they feel about the Habs' date=' there's really only room for one team there.[/quote']

I love that they have all the Expos banners and retired numbers hanging from the rafters there though.

[Keeper]

I can't disagree with the decision to put Dawson in as an Expo, but it's s***** for him in the sense that he'll lose money-making opportunities.

 

Baseball in Canada was a stupid idea to begin with. For the most part, Canadians only care about hockey.

[a700hitter]

I think it may be too early to call the Nats a failure, I think the organization has some promise.

 

As for other cities, you could say Baltimore after the Yankees left after 1902, but they never had a problem supporting their minor league Orioles before the Browns moved there. But other than KC and Miwaukee, you're right there really are no other good examples. I would include Seattle too though.

It took them along time to return to Baltimore-- more than 50 years.

[26 to 6]

Yeah but Baltimore did very well supporting them as a minor league team for most of that time.

[Imperial59]

I can't disagree with the decision to put Dawson in as an Expo, but it's s***** for him in the sense that he'll lose money-making opportunities.

 

Baseball in Canada was a stupid idea to begin with. For the most part, Canadians only care about hockey.

 

That's not true. I've seen plenty of games in Toronto, and they get pretty into the Blue Jays. I think a large issue in Montreal was the language barrier with half the city. There simply isn't French baseball lingo. They had to kind of make up cheesy, often confusing terms to describe the game. And there's also the fact that the team was so bad. They only won one playoff series in 30 years.

[Imperial59]

I love that they have all the Expos banners and retired numbers hanging from the rafters there though.

 

I LOVE the Bell Center. It's an incredible place to see a hockey game.

[Dojji]

I can't disagree with the decision to put Dawson in as an Expo, but it's s***** for him in the sense that he'll lose money-making opportunities.

 

Baseball in Canada was a stupid idea to begin with. For the most part, Canadians only care about hockey.

 

You realize that they feel the same way about hockey in the United States -- especially outside the Northeast.