Red Sox 25 Man Roster for 2010

[Plumpamania]

So that's all you got with a response? How about I ask about Pedrioa to Knoblauch? How about from Spencer to Ellsbury? Brocius to Beltre?

 

I shouldn't expect more but ******* answers from ******* posters.

[Plumpamania]

Waiting for a logical response..

[jacksonianmarch]

Its not even close. You underestimate O'Neill, Williams, Jeter, etc. Not surprising though.

 

Tino had OPS's between .800 and .948 from 1996-2001. He hit 175 homers in those 6 seasons.

Bernie had OPS's between .917 and .997 for all 6 of those yrs. He hit 157 homers in those 6 seasons.

Jeter had OPS's between .775 and .989 through those 6 yrs. He had 4 seasons of .850 or over.

Paul O'Neill had OPS's between .760 and .912 in those 6 yrs. He had 3 seasons of .880 or over

Posada had 3 seasons in that stretch of .830 or more OPS and had one season of a .948OPS.

 

The Yankees had a bunch of players who put up career seasons during that time, and when one player was in a down yr, the other was in a career yr. Every yr, there was someone new stepping in with Bernie and Tino to be the big power and RBI threats. In a sense, they were just as lucky as they were good.

[Emmz]

Cameron is a offensive downgrade compared to Bay

Beltre is an offensive downgrade compared to Lowell

A full year of V-Mart will help

Scutaro will help a bit.

I don't see the offense getting better

 

Run. Differential.

 

Say it with me, it feels nice. Run. Differential.

 

Cameron is an offensive downgrade compared to Bay, but is a MASSIVE upgrade defensively.

 

Beltre is about the SAME, but with slightly better power than Lowell offensively, so if anything, he's an upgrade offensively, and a massive upgrade defensively.

 

V-Mart is a HUGE upgrade offensively, and neither one of them, Martinez or Varitek, were any good on defense.

 

Scutaro is a downgrade defensively from Gonzalez, but probably an upgrade from the others, and a massive upgrade offensively from Gonzalez.

 

Statistics agree with me on this, too.

 

We may not score more runs than last year, but we have a more consistent lineup, with a potential to score more runs than last season.

 

Also, you're focusing solely on how many runs we're going to score. Acknowledge that the lineup is more consistent, and has had several offensive upgrades to help take away from the loss of Jason Bay.

 

Not to mention, we've become what is probably one of the best defensive teams in baseball, if not THE best defensive team in baseball.

 

Add that to our stacked rotation, where Jacko's shiny new "number two" starter, Javier Vasquez, is nothing but a 5th starter, and you've got a team that is a legitimate contender.

 

Don't mind when Jacko tells us all that we'll be fighting for our wild card lives, or whatever. This team has what it takes to contend with the Yankees themselves.

[Dipre]

Cameron is a offensive downgrade compared to Bay

Beltre is an offensive downgrade compared to Lowell

A full year of V-Mart will help

Scutaro will help a bit.

I don't see the offense getting better

 

No one sees this offense getting better. Run-differential. Stop whining.

 

But the loss in runs scored is less than the gain in runs prevented.

 

and that is with the premise that Ortiz can still hit approx 30 bombs. If Ortiz continues his drop and lets say he goes for a .750OPS with 20HRs' date=' then this lineup will be absolutely powerless. I cannot believe that fans of a team that saw the devastating effects of having 2 prime players in the lineup lead them to two championships would settle for this and try to defend it. The sox were built with multiple .800 or so OPS players who had high OBPs surrounding 2 HOF caliber hitters. That model saw the sox return to greatness. Now, the lineup has one hitter who is truly dangerous, but not in the 40 homer 130RBI way, but in the 20+HR, 35+ double, 100+ walk way. Nobody in this lineup is a true blue offensive nightmare. Teams built on OBP need a guy who is their buzzsaw, who makes those baserunners hurt the other team. A guy who you want up with the game on the line every time. I though Youk and Bay were a poor man's tandem in that category in 2009, but they fit that mold nonetheless. This yr's model is Youk and who? Martinez and Youk? He's a great hitter for a catcher, but overall he's pretty good offensively, certainly not great. Drew? Well, he's more of an OBP, bat on the shoulder kind of guy who really doesnt fit the middle of the order player mold. Ortiz? In his youth, in his youth. This is the problem. The sox O will work counts and will have a bunch of guys in the above average OPS category. But they arent fearsome at all. And fearsome lineups are the ones that tear through any type of pitching. Good pitching is going to rifle through the sox this yr. Mark it.[/quote']

 

Blablablabla.

 

No one gives a s***.

 

It's a good lineup, with fantastic defense and top-tier pitching. Many teams have won championships with exactly that model.

[jacksonianmarch]

Run. Differential.

 

Say it with me, it feels nice. Run. Differential.

 

Cameron is an offensive downgrade compared to Bay, but is a MASSIVE upgrade defensively.

 

Are you really buying the whole defense in LF at Fenway argument? f***ing seriously?

 

Beltre is about the SAME, but with slightly better power than Lowell offensively, so if anything, he's an upgrade offensively, and a massive upgrade defensively.

 

Are you also buying the argument that the sox end of season woes were due to defense at third? Really?

 

V-Mart is a HUGE upgrade offensively, and neither one of them, Martinez or Varitek, were any good on defense.

 

So let me get this straight. Upgrading in LF and 3b on defense was well worth it even with a significant loss on the offensive end, but the catcher position was okay to leave to a guy who is AWFUL on defense. Are you really buying this argument?

 

 

Scutaro is a downgrade defensively from Gonzalez, but probably an upgrade from the others, and a massive upgrade offensively from Gonzalez.

 

He's a modest upgrade offensively in any yr that wasnt his career season. If you think you are getting a guy who will reach base 38% of the time then you must be on some good s***.

 

We may not score more runs than last year, but we have a more consistent lineup, with a potential to score more runs than last season.

 

How did you get more consistent? You added a guy who OPS'd under .700 at 3b and a guy who carries the K ability of Jason Bay without any of his plus offensive capabilities. Have you even thought this through? The sox got swept in the playoffs because their offense was run through by good pitching. And you will seriously sit there and say that version 2010 is better suited to face the best of the best than the 09 version? Really.

 

Also, you're focusing solely on how many runs we're going to score. Acknowledge that the lineup is more consistent, and has had several offensive upgrades to help take away from the loss of Jason Bay.

 

I am sorry if I do not think that defense in LF and 3b are the key to winning a pennant. You upgraded at two non-prime positions while taking a MASSIVE downgrade offensively.

 

Not to mention, we've become what is probably one of the best defensive teams in baseball, if not THE best defensive team in baseball.

 

Congratulations on your defensive achievements. I am really happy for you. And I will be even happier when that #1 defense seats you #2 in the AL East. Which is all but a guarantee now.

 

Add that to our stacked rotation, where Jacko's shiny new "number two" starter, Javier Vasquez, is nothing but a 5th starter, and you've got a team that is a legitimate contender.

 

Don't mind when Jacko tells us all that we'll be fighting for our wild card lives, or whatever. This team has what it takes to contend with the Yankees themselves.

 

You have no clue what a 5th starter is. Even if he gives us EXACTLY what he gave in Chicago, 200+IP, 200+K, and a 4.5ERA, he'd be a #3 at worst. Regardless, think what you want. Drink the Kool Aid with the rest of them. Notice that none of the older posters who might have a bit more insight, a bit less pep, and a bit more levity have chimed in here. It's because they understand that this sox team is at best status quo from 2009 and most likely a downgrade. And that doesnt cut it when the Yankees are on top of the world. When the sox won the World Series, I felt like someone kicked me in the nuts on a continuous basis. I can only imagine what those who don't drink the Kool Aid must feel. NY is going into 2010 with a DECIDED advantage, and after the sox little spending spree, that is a damn shame for sox fans

[Dipre]

I don't know about you man, but last time i checked the key to winning a ballgame was scoring more runs than the other team.

 

That means that run prevention is just as important as the ability to score runs, therefore, the better you are at both scoring and preventing runs, the better your chances of winning ballgames. Also, iirc, only 81 games are played at Fenway Park AND there was an upgrade at CF were the Sox ranked dead last year in UZR and UZR/150.

 

Whine all you want. Engage in strawman all you want. Make up all the s*** you want.

 

It's.A. Better. Ballclub.

 

Also, i thought you were working? If you have enough time for a post as long as that one you have enough time to prove me wrong about Vasquez.

[jacksonianmarch]

The argument about run prevention can be made when you talk about Lackey. Not when talking about LF or 3B, especially when you take a massive hit offensively.

[Dipre]

The argument about run prevention can be made when you talk about Lackey. Not when talking about LF or 3B' date=' especially when you take a massive hit offensively.[/quote']

 

Read the edit.

 

And also CF was also upgraded.

 

That means D upgrades at LF, CF, and 3B, three positions where the Sox were in the lower 5 spots in UZR and UZR/150.

 

Whine away, logic eludes you.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't know about you man, but last time i checked the key to winning a ballgame was scoring more runs than the other team.

 

That means that run prevention is just as important as the ability to score runs, therefore, the better you are at both scoring and preventing runs, the better your chances of winning ballgames. Also, iirc, only 81 games are played at Fenway Park AND there was an upgrade at CF were the Sox ranked dead last year in UZR and UZR/150.

 

Whine all you want. Engage in strawman all you want. Make up all the s*** you want.

 

It's.A. Better. Ballclub.

 

Also, i thought you were working? If you have enough time for a post as long as that one you have enough time to prove me wrong about Vasquez.

 

 

I have the night off there Dipre. Rough month in December. BTW, you are one to make a comment about working. Also, I told you exactly why the Vazquez argument was wrong. It is all about year to year variability. It's right there in your "research". I know, you are proud of it. But it proves nothing aside from the fact that Vazquez gives up a lot of homeruns. That isnt rocket science

[Dipre]

I have the night off there Dipre. Rough month in December. BTW' date=' you are one to make a comment about working. Also, I told you exactly why the Vazquez argument was wrong. It is all about year to year variability. It's right there in your "research". I know, you are proud of it. But it proves nothing aside from the fact that Vazquez gives up a lot of homeruns. That isnt rocket science[/quote']

 

Then debunk it. You have free time, just like me.

[jacksonianmarch]

Read the edit.

 

And also CF was also upgraded.

 

That means D upgrades at LF, CF, and 3B, three positions where the Sox were in the lower 5 spots in UZR and UZR/150.

 

Whine away, logic eludes you.

 

And how many runs, real actual runs, did the defense of Lowell and Bay cost you? And how many runs will the drop off from Bay and Lowell cost you offensively. These nice sabermetric numbers are useful when put into the right context. If you cling to them with all of your heart, then you're bound to be disappointed. I can hear it right now. "The Yankees spend more and that's why they win...." Oh, and when the sox go out and sign a big ticket FA next offseason, will it be with defense in mind?

[Dipre]

And how many runs' date=' real actual runs, did the defense of Lowell and Bay cost you? And how many runs will the drop off from Bay and Lowell cost you offensively. These nice sabermetric numbers are useful when put into the right context. If you cling to them with all of your heart, then you're bound to be disappointed. I can hear it right now. "The Yankees spend more and that's why they win...." Oh, and when the sox go out and sign a big ticket FA next offseason, will it be with defense in mind?[/quote']

 

It probably will be someone who excels at both sides of the ball. Try again.

[jacksonianmarch]

After you lose in the first round of the playoffs and the fan base figures out they were duped by the FO's defensive push.

[Dipre]

After you lose in the first round of the playoffs and the fan base figures out they were duped by the FO's defensive push.

 

*Yawn*

 

You friends with Nostradamus there?

[jacksonianmarch]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

[Dipre]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

Of course i do.

 

If you think otherwise, i have a bridge i'd like to sell you......

[bsox0407]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

Offensively: 2009

 

Defensively: 2010

 

Rotation: 2010

 

Bullpen: 2010 (I really hate Saito in the Pen.)

 

Overall i love the upgrades in they did this offseason and are more excited than last year.

[Dojji]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

Darn tootin'. I think any expectation decline from Matsuzaka is made up for and then some from a combination of Lackey and Buchholz, we went into 2009 wondering how well our catching held up and we're going into 2010 with VMart, plus the emergence of Bard and Ramon Ramirez really gives us bullpen depth most teams would kill for. I'll also measure Scutaro up against Lugo and count us a winner, even though I didn't like the Scutaro signing, and similarly with Beltre and Lowell

 

Also most of our underperformers from '09 are either not on the roster anymore, or are strong rebound candidates whose performance we're in a position not to need to rely on this year. I count Matsuzaka, Lowrie, Varitek and Delcarmen in that group.

 

My biggest concern is that we've maybe lost some OBP, but I think our fielding should keep the other team off base enough to make up for that.

[Dipre]

Darn tootin'. I think any expectation decline from Matsuzaka is made up for and then some from a combination of Lackey and Buchholz, we went into 2009 wondering how well our catching held up and we're going into 2010 with VMart, plus the emergence of Bard and Ramon Ramirez really gives us bullpen depth most teams would kill for. I'll also measure Scutaro up against Lugo and count us a winner, even though I didn't like the Scutaro signing, and similarly with Beltre and Lowell

 

Also most of our underperformers from '09 are either not on the roster anymore, or are strong rebound candidates whose performance we're in a position not to need to rely on this year. I count Matsuzaka, Lowrie, Varitek and Delcarmen in that group.

 

My biggest concern is that we've maybe lost some OBP, but I think our fielding should keep the other team off base enough to make up for that.

 

Wow.

 

I agree with this post 120%.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Poof! He's gone.

[riverside sluggers]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

2009 opening day rotation (with savior John Smoltz coming in June)

Josh Beckett

Jon Lester

Daisuke Matsuzaka (tired arm from WBC)

Brad Penny

Tim Wakefield

 

2010 opening day rotation

Jon Lester

Josh Beckett

John Lackey

Clay Buchholz

Daisuke Matsuzaka

 

Wakefield as the long man out of the pen, spot start if need be

[Imperial59]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

The Red Sox are clearly a better team going into next year. They replaced Varitek with the second best hitting catcher in baseball. They replaced Brad Penny with John Lackey. They replaced Julio Lugo/Nick Green with Marco Scutaro, they'll have a healthy Daisuke Matsuzaka and much improved defense in center, left and at third.

 

If you don't think the Red Sox are a better team, could you make a statistical, objective case otherwise. None of your bull, subjective smear campaigns please.

[Imperial59]

After you lose in the first round of the playoffs and the fan base figures out they were duped by the FO's defensive push.

 

Was there any purpose to this comment, other than to bait on a Red Sox forum?

 

It's more than a little bit sad that you're favorite team won the World Series, and you spend your free time (which you claim you don't have much of) baiting on a Red Sox site. Either you have a major inferiority complex, or you took the 2004 ALCS REALLY hard.

[Imperial59]

I need you to answer a question honestly.

 

Do you think that the 2010 Red Sox are a better team than the 2009 Red Sox were entering the season last yr. I need an honest answer here.

 

I have a question for you Jacko. Do you honestly think the Yankees (ages included) going into this year are any better than they were last year? They took some major hits in OPS+ going from Damon to Granderson, Matsui to Johnson and Cabrera to Gardner.

[TheMino007]

If everyone stays healthy this team is better than last years team, but as we know that is never the case. Injuries could hit the pitching staff, and then we are croaked. Lackey is coming off of two years of less than 200 innings and injuries, Beckett is always hurt and has disappeared down the stretch run the last two years. You never know what goes on with Nancy Drew in RF, but at least we have options for the OF. I'm assuming Dice-K will have a bounce back year, but Ortiz is a mystery, the true wild card in the offense. I'm not projecting him to hit 30 homers, I predict he'll put up numbers like he did last year, except he will be more consistent and less streaky so people won't notice his slumps and streaks as much as they did in 09. You lose Beckett or Lackey for an extended amount of time and the team is in trouble. The Sox couldn't win or hit on the road last year, and with the offense declining, all the run prevention in the world won't matter when they score a whopping 2 runs a game on the road. Preventing runs is good, but you can't win a game 0-0 if you don't score any runs. 4 years of Jason Bay and Theo growing some balls and trading for Adrian Gonzalez is what this team needed to win a championship. Now granted, this defense/pitching run prevention team is great, but it is easy to see that this roster the way it is currently assembled won't be taking the Sox to the World Series. Sox are better off now than last year b/c other teams are getting weaker (Tigers, Angels) and mediocre teams aren't getting good enough to compete with the Sox (Rangers, Mariners). I'd probably have to say the Sox have the 2nd best team in the AL right now. But the buck stops at the ALCS for the Sox.

[Emmz]

Ahhhhhh! My eyes. Paragraphs man!

[Emmz]

The Red Sox are clearly a better team going into next year. They replaced Varitek with the second best hitting catcher in baseball. They replaced Brad Penny with John Lackey. They replaced Julio Lugo/Nick Green with Marco Scutaro, they'll have a healthy Daisuke Matsuzaka and much improved defense in center, left and at third.

 

If you don't think the Red Sox are a better team, could you make a statistical, objective case otherwise. None of your bull, subjective smear campaigns please.

 

It's pointless. You don't say anything, he'll say "SEE I TOLD YOU, YOU CAN'T EVEN MAKE AN ARGUMENT". If you respond with "Yes, and here's why..." He'll simply tell you something to the effect of "Well then, you're cracked".

 

There's rarely logic attached to these things.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a question for you Jacko. Do you honestly think the Yankees (ages included) going into this year are any better than they were last year? They took some major hits in OPS+ going from Damon to Granderson' date=' Matsui to Johnson and Cabrera to Gardner.[/quote']

 

If Gardner does EXACTLY what he did last yr, and I expect him to be better, then he will be worth more than Melky. Melky's OPS was in the .740 range last yr. Gardner's was .724. That 16 point drop is offset by the steals. Gardner had about a half season worth of ABs and stole 26 bases in his first real test in the bigs. He's gonna be a 50 steal kind of guy. A guy who reaches base around 35% of the time and can steal at will is pretty valuable. And disagreeing with that statement knocks your own guy. Gardner is a poor man's Ellsbury. Gardner has a better eye, worse contact skills and less power. Both bring very similar skillsets to the table. Plus, seeing as you guys are buying it, IT BRINGS BETTER DEFENSE TO LF ROFL.

 

Now, if you are going to compare offensive players, then you have to compare where they will sit in the lineup. So I compare Damon to Johnson and Matsui to Granderson. Offensively, the switch from Damon to Johnson is a wash. Using OPS for that is where you fail. Johnson will be in the 2 spot in the order IMO. And his .420OBP is worth more than the gain in SLG that you get from Damon. Plus, with Damon's speed game essentially gone, the difference closes. Add in the fact that Damon was built for Yankee Stadium and Johnson played all of last yr in pitchers parks, then one should expect Johnson's power to pick up. I dont expect him to hit 24 homers like Damon did, but he'll probably hit 15-20 over the course of the season, which is something he has proven he is more than capable of doing.

 

The Matsui for Granderson thing is where the difference is. Now, comparing the 2009 Matsui to the 2009 Granderson shows a pretty big gap in OPS mostly based on Matsui's improvement in the OBP and AVG category. Curtis will not give the same kind of eye that Matsui did even prior to 2009. But Curtis' 2007 and 2008 numbers show he is a better player than he was in 2009, even though his 2009 was still solid. Move him to NY where the porch in RF is ridiculous and he could be a 35+ homer kind of guy. Surround him with a better lineup and he should get that OPS over .800 again. He's my wild card. But the other thing that he brings is health. Matsui's knees stayed intact for 2009, but they let him go because they dont think he will in 2010. I tend to agree with them, mostly because he kept needing them drained throughout the season. Having a guy who doesnt need his knees drained every 3 weeks is a boon.

 

So, if everyone plays to their 2009 totals even with the massive change in venue, then it is a minor dropoff offensively, and it is only in the Matsui to Granderson drop. But I think the venue change and the rebound from a poor 2009 from Granderson will get this lineup to even or better than 2009.

 

And since you guys buy into this whole defense in LF thing, having Granderson and Gardner interchangeably between LF and CF especially in death valley would show that we improved as well. See, DEFENSE IN LF IS AWESOME!

 

The kicker for 2010 is the addition of Vazquez. That is where this team is CLEARLY better than 2009. Last season, we had Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre starting in the 5 hole with Aceves throwing a game here and there. Now Gaudin did pretty well, but Mitre was awful to bad last yr. Replacing that spot with Vazquez' continuous 200IP 200K performance will be a HUGE boon for the team, especially the pen, which gets to have a clear cut setup guy in either Hughes or Joba. The rotation is head and shoulders better for 2010 and the pen with Marte's resurgence after injury and one of the young kids out there should be even to better.

[Dipre]

If everyone stays healthy this team is better than last years team' date=' but as we know that is never the case. Injuries could hit the pitching staff, and then we are croaked. Lackey is coming off of two years of less than 200 innings and injuries, Beckett is always hurt and has disappeared down the stretch run the last two years. You never know what goes on with Nancy Drew in RF, but at least we have options for the OF. I'm assuming Dice-K will have a bounce back year, but Ortiz is a mystery, the true wild card in the offense. I'm not projecting him to hit 30 homers, I predict he'll put up numbers like he did last year, except he will be more consistent and less streaky so people won't notice his slumps and streaks as much as they did in 09. You lose Beckett or Lackey for an extended amount of time and the team is in trouble. The Sox couldn't win or hit on the road last year, and with the offense declining, all the run prevention in the world won't matter when they score a whopping 2 runs a game on the road. Preventing runs is good, but you can't win a game 0-0 if you don't score any runs. 4 years of Jason Bay and Theo growing some balls and trading for Adrian Gonzalez is what this team needed to win a championship. Now granted, this defense/pitching run prevention team is great, but it is easy to see that this roster the way it is currently assembled won't be taking the Sox to the World Series. Sox are better off now than last year b/c other teams are getting weaker (Tigers, Angels) and mediocre teams aren't getting good enough to compete with the Sox (Rangers, Mariners). I'd probably have to say the Sox have the 2nd best team in the AL right now. But the buck stops at the ALCS for the Sox.[/quote']

 

Nancy Drew?

 

Can you trade for a player if the other team doesn't to?

 

Do you have a crystal ball?

 

Can you divide the post into paragraphs?

 

What team is not in trouble is they lose one of their best starters?