Your Offseason Plan

[Dojji]

I'll start:

 

Signings:

Nick Green, utility IF

 

Trades:

 

Paul Konerko to Boston

Manny Delcarmen and Ryan Kalish to Chicago.

 

The Chisox have been looking for a CF prospect for awhile, and Kalish is one of our better ones, boasting good speed and power even if he doesn't really show one incredible tool yet. Manny Delcarmen is the kind of power arm that teams like to gamble on in these kind of rental deals, and he's an upgrade on guys like Octavio Dotel.

 

Hanley Ramirez to Boston

Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel to Florida.

 

That's a LOT of talent, including at least one untouchable. If that price can't pry Hanley out of Florida, nothing will. For a shortstop of Hanley's sheer talent level though, it's a fair price to pay, especially if we're able to keep him around past the life of his current contract.

 

The trouble in dealing with Florida is that they're unlikely to be as interested in Buchholz, since they don't pay money for ballplayers and Clay's used up some arb time. So you really have to throw together a pupu platter of prospects before they'll really take you seriously, maybe add some money on top even. On the other hand, we might get a bit of grace here for taking a large contract off their hands that we wouldn't get with any other team when discussing a talent the likes of Hanley Ramirez, so perhaps I'm being too pessimistic.

 

Anywho, final roster

 

Lineup:

 

Ellsbury, CF

Pedroia, 2B

Hanley, SS

Youkilis, 3B

Martinez, C

Ortiz, DH

Konerko, 1B

Drew, RF

Cameron, LF

Scutaro, SS

 

Hermida, OF

Green, IF

Varitek, C

Kotchman, 1B

 

Beckett

Lester

Lackey

Daisuke

Buchholz

 

Papelbon

Oki

Ramram

Ram-a-ram*

Richardson*

Bowden*

Tazawa*

 

*these are just fill-in names for whoever we bring in to fill out the lower 4 spots in the bullpen. Those roles don't tend to be vastly important and can generally be filled well by a team with good scouting.

 

That said, shred away, good people!

[Rdsxmbnt]

Well we have two SS to begin with. If we ever did add Hanley then either Hanley or Scutaro moves over to 3B.

[Dojji]

If we got Hanley, what does anyone care what happens to Scutaro? I'll admit I forgot completely about him, I guess that'd make him a very well remunerated, #1 pick costing utility man but that's more what Scutaro's career role is anyway.

[Dipre]

As much as i'd love to get Hanley, i just don't think he's getting moved, and as Rdsxmbnt says, if you do get him, then Konerko doesn't fit.

[Dipre]

If we got Hanley' date=' what does anyone care what happens to Scutaro? I'll admit I forgot completely about him, I guess that'd make him a very well remunerated, #1 pick costing utility man but that's more what Scutaro's career role is anyway.[/quote']

 

If Scutaro's getting paid 5 million, he's starting somewhere.

[Plumpamania]

For me it's just a trade for Adrain Gonzalez. Hanley Ramirez is not projected to last at SS due to his horrible hands. He makes way too many errors and has never really hit well from the # 3 spot in a line up. Great/amazing talent, but he's not a good fit for the Red Sox currently.

[riverside sluggers]

As much as i'd love to get Hanley' date=' i just don't think he's getting moved, and as Rdsxmbnt says, if you do get him, then Konerko doesn't fit.[/quote']

 

Plus with his addition of Konerko, the Sox would be losing Ryan Kalish, Manny Delcarmen, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel

 

Theo, who loves his prospects, would slip into a coma if he gave up all those players

[Dipre]

For me it's just a trade for Adrain Gonzalez. Hanley Ramirez is not projected to last at SS due to his horrible hands. He makes way too many errors and has never really hit well from the # 3 spot in a line up. Great/amazing talent' date=' but he's not a good fit for the Red Sox currently.[/quote']

 

In all fairness, but from what i've seen, and what the stats show, Hanley has improved exponentially in the six position, to the point where he could be considered an average/slightly above average SS, also, remember that errors are subjective, Hanley gets to a lot of balls other players can't get to, and that results in errors for him, just because he has superior range. My problem with Hanley is that taking blind swings when you've got an obvious option, because there's really no indication that the Marlins are willing to move Hanley.

[Dipre]

Plus with his addition of Konerko, the Sox would be losing Ryan Kalish, Manny Delcarmen, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel

 

Theo, who loves his prospects, would slip into a coma if he gave up all those players

 

That would completely sacrifice the future for short-term success, specifically in the case of Konerko. I find it strange to read such a proposition from Doiji, to be honest. (This is not an attack, just pointing out he has always professed he wouldn't mind this being a "step back year" if it will for an improved club in the future).

[Dojji]

The fact is that if we gained Hanley, and kept Buchholz, there aren't too many places I can think of that would be in urgent need of replacement within the next 2 years. First base would be just about it, and that's not a difficult position to fill adequately. And I didn't even tough our catching depth, maybe one of those guys moves over.

 

Also, I was overbidding so I wouldn't derail the thread by someone pointing out "this guy's worth more than that!" I don't think either player would cost MORE than my posted price -- they might cost much less.

[Dipre]

The fact is that if we gained Hanley, and kept Buchholz, there aren't too many places I can think of that would be in urgent need of replacement within the next 2 years. First base would be just about it, and that's not a difficult position to fill adequately.

 

Also, I was overbidding so I wouldn't derail the thread by someone pointing out "this guy's worth more than that!" I don't think either player would cost MORe than my posted price -- they might cost much less.

 

There's not way to know what Hanley would cost, of if the Marlins are willing to move him.

[italstallianion]

I'll start:

 

Signings:

Nick Green, utility IF

 

Trades:

 

Paul Konerko to Boston

Manny Delcarmen and Ryan Kalish to Chicago.

 

The Chisox have been looking for a CF prospect for awhile, and Kalish is one of our better ones, boasting good speed and power even if he doesn't really show one incredible tool yet. Manny Delcarmen is the kind of power arm that teams like to gamble on in these kind of rental deals, and he's an upgrade on guys like Octavio Dotel.

 

Hanley Ramirez to Boston

Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Daniel Bard, Kyle Weiland, Anthony Rizzo, and Stolmy Pimentel to Florida.

 

That's a LOT of talent, including at least one untouchable. If that price can't pry Hanley out of Florida, nothing will. For a shortstop of Hanley's sheer talent level though, it's a fair price to pay, especially if we're able to keep him around past the life of his current contract.

 

The trouble in dealing with Florida is that they're unlikely to be as interested in Buchholz, since they don't pay money for ballplayers and Clay's used up some arb time. So you really have to throw together a pupu platter of prospects before they'll really take you seriously, maybe add some money on top even. On the other hand, we might get a bit of grace here for taking a large contract off their hands that we wouldn't get with any other team when discussing a talent the likes of Hanley Ramirez, so perhaps I'm being too pessimistic.

 

Anywho, final roster

 

Lineup:

 

Ellsbury, CF

Pedroia, 2B

Hanley, SS

Youkilis, 3B

Martinez, C

Ortiz, DH

Konerko, 1B

Drew, RF

Cameron, LF

Scutaro, SS

 

Hermida, OF

Green, IF

Varitek, C

Kotchman, 1B

 

Beckett

Lester

Lackey

Daisuke

Buchholz

 

Papelbon

Oki

Ramram

Ram-a-ram*

Richardson*

Bowden*

Tazawa*

 

*these are just fill-in names for whoever we bring in to fill out the lower 4 spots in the bullpen. Those roles don't tend to be vastly important and can generally be filled well by a team with good scouting.

 

That said, shred away, good people!

 

 

 

 

Here's what I can think of that's wrong with your post. First of all, signing Nick Green. Second, you'd be giving up way too much for Hanley Ramirez, who plays a position that we just signed a player (and lost a draft pick) for. If we didn't sign Scutaro and gave up less in the trade to the Marlins, then your idea would make some sense, but since neither of those are true, you're f***** crazy. Third, your proposed lineup has 10 players. Fourth, you're raping our farm system for inefficient help to our major league team. And Fifth, you're absolutely raping our bullpen. We had a great bullpen last year and we're losing Saito and Wagner, and you propose trading Delcarmen and Bard? We'd only have Ramirez Oki and Papelbon left. There's no way that we'd have Bowden, Richardson, and Tazawa in the same bullpen until September callups. And Sixth, similar to point 3, your roster has 26 players when you're only allowed 25.

 

 

Other than all of that, your plan is pretty good. I like what you did with the rotation, that's probably the only thing you did right.

[Dojji]

OK, I screwed up on scutaro a couple different times. Let's get past that, and see your plan.

[italstallianion]

And 7th, unless you plan on stashing Max Ramirez in AAA, then you forgot about him.

 

 

 

Besides, I don't need to come up with a plan because Theo has already done most of his work. If this thread were made a few weeks ago, then it'd be a more opportune time to play the guessing game, but there's no point in playing the guessing game well into the off season. That's like filling out your March Madness bracket at the Sweet 16.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Here's my plan:

 

Trade for Hanley: Ellsbury, Kelly, Anderson, Kalish, Pimental

 

1. Scutaro 3B

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Ramirez SS

4. Youkillis 1B

5. Martinez C

6. Ortiz DH

7. Drew RF

8. Cameron CF

9. Hermida/Reddick LF

 

1. Lester

2. Beckett

3. Lackey

4. Matsuzaka

5. Buchholz

 

CL Papelbon

Set-up Bard

Set-up Okajima

MR Delcarmen

MR Ramirez

MR Richardson

LR Boof

 

Farm system still includes Westmoreland/Rizzo/Reddick/Tazawa/Iglesias/Bowden/etc

[Dipre]

Here's my plan:

 

Trade for Hanley: Ellsbury, Kelly, Anderson, Kalish, Pimental

 

1. Scutaro 3B

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Ramirez SS

4. Youkillis 1B

5. Martinez C

6. Ortiz DH

7. Drew RF

8. Cameron CF

9. Hermida/Reddick LF

 

1. Lester

2. Beckett

3. Lackey

4. Matsuzaka

5. Buchholz

 

CL Papelbon

Set-up Bard

Set-up Okajima

MR Delcarmen

MR Ramirez

MR Richardson

LR Boof

 

Farm system still includes Westmoreland/Rizzo/Reddick/Tazawa/Iglesias/Bowden/etc

 

I don't think Florida goes for that package. And you create a hole that forces Hermida/Reddick to be the LF tandem. You also propose a LHH/LHH platoon at LF.

[Dojji]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

 

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

 

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

 

Ellsbury is the center piece of the trade (cost-controlled, and a top offensive CF) so substituting Bard and Weiland doesn't really work.

 

And we already are spending 5-6mil on Scutaro, he HAS to play somewhere so Beltre is clearly not an option if we got Hanley.

[Dojji]

Not from the Marlins' perspective. From their perspective they'll control him less long because we've burnt arb clock. They might go after him anyway because he's a unique talent, but they won't value him as much as teams that actually pay their ballplayers would.

[Dipre]

Swap Ellsbury with Bard and Weiland and it might work though.

 

And given the choice between Scutaro and Beltre as the everyday 3B I want Beltre. And I've made no secret of my feelings about Adrian Beltre.

 

You're forced to play Scutaro as a starter somewhere. Besides that, you both underestimate what Florida could ask for Hanley, they know he's the best offensive SS in the league, so they probably ask for a package more impressive than for Gonzo, and the 5 years he has left on his contract with a max salary of 16 million is literally a bargain.

[BSN07]

First of all we should wait and see if the Lowell trade goes through. With Ramirez in the fold the 1B/C rotation should be set.

 

I'm pretty good with what they have going forward(assuming the Lowell deal gets done). They need to add a 5th OF(Baldelli would be fine by me).

 

The need a utility IF. Carroll signed already, so I guess Nick Green would be ok for that role.

 

I'd like to see them sign Sheets to a 1 year deal. But the rotation seems to be set(if Buchholz is not traded).

 

Outside of that I think this will be the team going into ST. I can deal with Kotchman at 1B for now. He fits well with the Defensive/SP course the Red Sox appear to be taking this off season. It would probably be better to see what's available more towards the TDL anyways.

[example1]

It's pretty easy to start throwing ideas around when a good portion of the offseason is already over. Where were these predictions a month ago?

 

Look into acquiring Adrian Gonzalez if the price is too high (Buchholz or Ellsbury is too high, IMO) then wait.

Sign Aroldis Chapman

Sign more good relievers

Sign a backup 1B if Kotchman is the only option to start there.

[Plumpamania]

Sign Aroldis Chapman ---- Forgot about that one, as the rest of you did.

 

Also looking into things, I'd also like to think about if the Lowell trade goes through forgetting about Kotchman, he's a back up..Martinez at 1B and Ramirez behind the plate...

[jacksonianmarch]

You just signed Scutaro. You arent trading for Hanley.

[SoxSport]

I think Konerko is too expensive and too old for the Red Sox' tastes. He's close to becoming a DH. Hanley R. is farther off the radar screen than AdGon. I doubt Bard is going anywhere.

 

Beltre looks like the preference to me, if the price is right. Consistent with what they have done so far. And Theo doesn't have to give up any of his valued young talent. They are probably waiting for Lowell before they do anything. I think they will use AdGon as leverage with Boras.

[BSN07]

I don't think Beltre is an option anymore at this point IMO. Like it's been said, the Sox are nearing the luxury tax threshold. And probably aren't going to spend any more big $ until some contracts are shed. Don't forget, Beckett and Martinez need to extended, so honestly I'm not sure the Sox can spend a ton going forward.

 

It's going to be Youk/Martinez/Lowell rotation ,or Youk/Martinez/Ramirez. I don't expect any large moves until the TDL at the earliest, unless Agon's price comes down, which there is no reason to think it will.

[SoxSport]

Rolen just extended for 3 yrs at $8 mil per (MLBTradeRumors.com). Beltre isn't worth much more than that, and I doubt he'll get more than 9 or 10 mil. I think they can afford another 8-10 mil without paying the luxury tax--if they can do the Lowell deal. They can always backload Beckett and VMart extensions.

[Dipre]

I don't think Beltre is an option anymore at this point IMO. Like it's been said' date=' the Sox are nearing the luxury tax threshold. And probably aren't going to spend any more big $ until some contracts are shed. [b']Don't forget, Beckett and Martinez need to extended, so honestly I'm not sure the Sox can spend a ton going forward.[/b]

 

It's going to be Youk/Martinez/Lowell rotation ,or Youk/Martinez/Ramirez. I don't expect any large moves until the TDL at the earliest, unless Agon's price comes down, which there is no reason to think it will.

 

Over 50 million are coming off the books next year, so that's not a point of concern.

[Dojji]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre, unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.

[diony]

Ellsbury is the center piece of the trade (cost-controlled' date=' and a top offensive CF) so substituting Bard and Weiland doesn't really work.[/quote']

 

Actually Ellsbury is not so appealing to low market teams like the Marlins, because he's arb eligible after the season and is represented by Boras.