Your Offseason Plan

[Dipre]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre' date=' unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.[/quote']

 

Lowell if the deal goes through.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Actually Ellsbury is not so appealing to low market teams like the Marlins' date=' because he's arb eligible after the season and is represented by Boras.[/quote']

 

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...

[Dipre]

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...

 

What i think he meant is that Ells could get really expensive through the arb process.

[Palodios]

My offseason plans

 

1. extending VMart asap is absolutely necessary. He's one of the top 3 offensive catchers, and if Mauer extends his contract with the twins it means that VMart will be the best catcher available in 2010, which is the same year Posada's contract is over. VMart will be much more expensive down the line if Mauer is unavailable.

 

2. Stop signing unproven foreign players to big contracts. Sometimes they're older than they say they are, language bariers frequently hurt the clubhouse, and so many other issues seem to pop up. Also avoid any players who put themselves above the team (Bartolo, Manny). Aka, no more dicey mistakes.

 

3. Hold on to the minor league players who dropped in value this year, ie LOWRIE Anderson, Bowden, and company. The team would be better off holding on to them and see if they can rebound rather than trading them for a bag of bricks.

 

4. Get Ortiz on steriods. hey, everyone is doing it now, and well, if he's going to be thought of as a steriod-user, he may as well be hitting like one.

 

5. Don't be overanxious for a big bat. A-gon is not worth Buch+Ells+Kelly. The team will need one for the playoffs, but it can wait until players become more available. Look into other options for the short term, check out Branyan's health, LaRoche, whatever. At all costs, avoid a long term contract on Beltre, defense is important, but its not worth .683 OPS AND the price Beltre is looking for.

[Dipre]

1) Agree.

 

2) The potential reward is worth the risk.

 

3) Agree.

 

4) Whose to say he stopped?

 

5) Adrian Beltre has a lifetime .779 OPS, and was injured last year, i doubt that .683 OPS is a real indication of what his actual offensive performance would be going forward, not to mention he's the best defensive 3B in the game today, as for A-Gon, Kelly shouldn't even be brought up, since he has been deemed untouchable by the organization, and moving Ellsbury would be a big, big mistake down the line.

[Palodios]

In the future, it might be worth taking more risks on foreign players. However, I think the organization has been doing it too much, and I wouldn't want the PR hit of another fiasco like this year's Dice-k situation.

 

Ortiz's numbers seem to indicate that he did stop.

 

I understand the significance of Beltre's defense and his injury. However, what if he's in decline, and its not just an injury? Any more than a one or two year deal would be too great of a risk. I've been reading San Diego Padres news, and the deal that they seem willing to accept was Buch + Ells+ Kelly which is the catalyst for my A-Gon other alternatives topic.

[Dipre]

In the future, it might be worth taking more risks on foreign players. However, I think the organization has been doing it too much, and I wouldn't want the PR hit of another fiasco like this year's Dice-k situation.

 

Ortiz's numbers seem to indicate that he did stop.

 

I understand the significance of Beltre's defense and his injury. However, what if he's in decline, and its not just an injury? Any more than a one or two year deal would be too great of a risk. I've been reading San Diego Padres news, and the deal that they seem willing to accept was Buch + Ells+ Kelly which is the catalyst for my A-Gon other alternatives topic.

 

I doubt Beltre's in decline, he busted a nut last year.....that's about all i'm going to say about that.

 

Buch+Ells+Kelly ain't happening. Kelly is untouchable.

[ORS]

He'd be under their control for the next 4 years...

You are missing his point. The teams on the lower end of the payroll spectrum don't even like those last 3 years, the arbitration years, of control. Depending on the talent in question, those years can start approaching free agent market value for their contributions, which is clearly something they aren't interested in paying.

[TheMino007]

So wow, we could be spending 18 million on two guys we don't have anymore, Lowell and Lugo. At this point the big spending is done and the Sox will focus on the bullpen and bench players.

[Palodios]

I doubt Beltre's in decline, he busted a nut last year.....that's about all i'm going to say about that.

 

Buch+Ells+Kelly ain't happening. Kelly is untouchable.

 

I've seen people arguing that its been about park factors, and injuries, but the truth of the matter is that Beltre has had only ONE above average season offensively at Safeco OR Dodger Stadium. The sox have Youk locked up for a long time, so if they sign Beltre, they lock an average player for multi-years at third when we could get a better or equal offensive player like Laroche for much cheaper and short term.1st base is such an extremely offensive position that having beltre on a corner instead of waiting for say.. Carlos Pena or Lance Berkman would be a waste. Do you really think the hit to the defense would be worth signing a 4y/30m deal? f*** Scott Boras.

 

 

And CB+JE+CK? That's roughly what the Padres want. I'm explicitly saying not to make the deal.

[Dipre]

I've seen people arguing that its been about park factors, and injuries, but the truth of the matter is that Beltre has had only ONE above average season offensively at Safeco OR Dodger Stadium. The sox have Youk locked up for a long time, so if they sign Beltre, they lock an average player for multi-years at third when we could get a better or equal offensive player like Laroche for much cheaper.1st base is such an extremely offensive position that having beltre on a corner instead of waiting for say.. Carlos Pena or Lance Berkman would be a waste. Do you really think the hit to the defense would be worth signing a 4y/30m deal? f*** Scott Boras.

 

 

And CB+JE CK? That's roughly what the Padres want. I'm explicitly saying not to make the deal.

 

I'm agreeing with this.

 

And no:

 

1) You're only looking at the offensive side of things, this is a crucial mistake, specially with LaRoche.

 

2) Beltre has had roughly the same OPS+ (which ignores park adjustments) as Lowell if you take out his completely fluke 2007 season during Beltre's time with Seattle and Lowell's time with Boston, and don't get me started on their respective ages and Lowell's current injuries..

 

3)No one is giving Beltre more than 2 years w/option at 9 per or less. If they are, the GM should be fired.

[Palodios]

My offseason plans

 

....

 

At all costs, avoid a long term contract on Beltre

 

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix, clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense already had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?

[Dipre]

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix' date=' clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?[/quote']

 

I believe Tex's contract was more of a respect issue.

 

I also don't believe Beltre wouldn't be able to provide above-average production by positional standards for the next 3-4 years at the hot corner. Agree to disagree, i guess.

[BSN07]

I'm saying that LaRoche would be a short-term fix' date=' clearly an upgrade to Kotchman. If Beltre can be an affordable short-term solution, fine. However, the team's pitching and defense already had some serious upgrades this offseason, and putting in someone who would hurt the team's offensive for the long haul just doesn't make a lot of sense if you're planning on him staying around for multiple (read- more than two) years. This is Boras we're talking about. Varitek got paid 5 million last year, and well, considering his offense AND defense, how much did he really deserve?[/quote']

 

How? He is said to be looking for a 3 year deal. And will probably get it from someone.

[SoxSport]

For the most part we'll be replacing those contracts with other similar contracts. IIRC only the Lugo money is really freed up. That'd cover Beltre' date=' unless we need it to keep one of our relievers (read: Papelbon) happy.[/quote']

 

Off Pap's performance last year, I would say Pap will not get a big contract here. Bard is waiting in the wings, and the Red Sox are not the type organization to give big money to a closer.

[Dipre]

Off Pap's performance last year' date=' I would say Pap will not get a big contract here. Bard is waiting in the wings, and the Red Sox are not the type organization to give big money to a closer.[/quote']

 

Arbitration.

[flinch]

Saw this on another forum and I like the idea: Sign Bengie Molina for two years and have Vmart play first. Bengie still gets it done. What do you guys think? Varitek becomes the third catcher

[riverside sluggers]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million, that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings

[BSN07]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million' date=' that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings[/quote']

 

^ This

 

We are on the same page this morning

[bsox0407]

I just dont think the Sox have another big signing in them. Heard on weei that their current payroll sits at $162 million' date=' that doesnt account for raises in salary for the younger players. This is the highest the payroll has been since 2007. Going forward it will be trades and small signings[/quote']

 

I hope that this isn't true. IMO we need to pick up a LF. Going into the Season with Cameron and Ellsbury in CF and LF.

[BSN07]

I hope that this isn't true. IMO we need to pick up a LF. Going into the Season with Cameron and Ellsbury in CF and LF.

 

I hate to be the one to let you know. But LF is filled. The only moves the Sox will be making, is fo a utility IF, 5th OF, possibly a BP arm or 2. And possibly moving Lowell at a later date.

[bsox0407]

I hate to be the one to let you know. But LF is filled. The only moves the Sox will be making' date=' is fo a utility IF, 5th OF, possibly a BP arm or 2. And possibly moving Lowell at a later date.[/quote']

 

Last year we had 5 outfielders. IF it was me in FO but we all know that would never happen. I would sign Bay and have Hermida and CAmeron as backups and i know that Cameron is an expensive back up but he could really Help Ellsbury if he stays in CF. Plus I know it prolly won't happen its just a blind Hope.

 

I would really like to get Gonzo but would not like to give up Buchholz or Ells. I am willing to give up Kelly if we keep Buchholz.

 

If Lowell gets the surgery in the next few days he will be ready by Spring Training. If he is healthy i would be willing to him being a 3b or as the Sox said they were gonna teach him to be a 1B he could play 1B and switch Youk to 3b.

 

I know these things prolly won't happen but can't a man hope.

[Dipre]

Last year we had 5 outfielders. IF it was me in FO but we all know that would never happen. I would sign Bay and have Hermida and CAmeron as backups and i know that Cameron is an expensive back up but he could really Help Ellsbury if he stays in CF. Plus I know it prolly won't happen its just a blind Hope.

 

I would really like to get Gonzo but would not like to give up Buchholz or Ells. I am willing to give up Kelly if we keep Buchholz.

 

If Lowell gets the surgery in the next few days he will be ready by Spring Training. If he is healthy i would be willing to him being a 3b or as the Sox said they were gonna teach him to be a 1B he could play 1B and switch Youk to 3b.

 

I know these things prolly won't happen but can't a man hope.

 

None of those things will happen.

 

1) Mike Cameron is a 25-30 HR bat being paid 7.5 AAV.He's also a better outfielder and hitter than Ellsbury. He's simply not a backup.

 

2)Getting Gonzales without Bucholz and/or Ells is impossible.

 

3) Lowell can no longer play defense at 3B, the FO knows this, and doesn't want him manning 3B next year, he has also never played 1B in the Majors, so it would be a risky experiment for the Sox.

 

Blind hope is never a good thing, my friend.

[bsox0407]

None of those things will happen.

 

1) Mike Cameron is a 25-30 HR bat being paid 7.5 AAV.He's also a better outfielder and hitter than Ellsbury. He's simply not a backup.

 

2)Getting Gonzales without Bucholz and/or Ells is impossible.

 

3) Lowell can no longer play defense at 3B, the FO knows this, and doesn't want him manning 3B next year, he has also never played 1B in the Majors, so it would be a risky experiment for the Sox.

 

Blind hope is never a good thing, my friend.

 

I know, just let me have this one.

 

But Cameron could help Ellsbury defensively. which in the Future will make Ellsbury better defensively.

[Dipre]

I know, just let me have this one.

 

But Cameron could help Ellsbury defensively. which in the Future will make Ellsbury better defensively.

 

I agree with this though. Cameron could probably "mentor" Ellsbury.

[BSN07]

I think Lowell get's dealt at some point anyways. If not he could see time at 1B and DH. He would probably be better against tough LHP then Ortiz.

 

The Sox may be lacking in "star" power in places, but I would wager they have one of the more solid 1-25 rosters in the league. Most of their back ups are starters somewhere else.

[TheMino007]

The loss of Bay's bat hurts the offense, but if you can't improve the offense, then improve the pitching and defense. If your losing runs scored, at least your increasing your run prevention. Ellbury in LF, Cameron in CF, and Drew in RF is a damn good defensive OF. The only complaint I have about moving Ellsbury to LF is that in Fenway his range will be wasted, the guy could cover a lot of ground and got to a lot of balls I don't think Cameron would have. Youk is an upgrade over Lowell at third and Scutaro is a steadying force at SS, nothing spectactualar, but he'll make the routine plays. You have a 1-2-3 of Beckett, Lester, Lackey and you have three guys who should post ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Dice-K will be better than last year. Kotchman will be a fine defensive firstbaseman.

[Dipre]

The loss of Bay's bat hurts the offense' date=' but if you can't improve the offense, then improve the pitching and defense. If your losing runs scored, at least your increasing your run prevention. Ellbury in LF, Cameron in CF, and Drew in RF is a damn good defensive OF. The only complaint I have about moving Ellsbury to LF is that in Fenway his range will be wasted, the guy could cover a lot of ground and got to a lot of balls I don't think Cameron would have. Youk is an upgrade over Lowell at third and Scutaro is a steadying force at SS, nothing spectactualar, but he'll make the routine plays. You have a 1-2-3 of Beckett, Lester, Lackey and you have three guys who should post ERA's in the low to mid 3's. Dice-K will be better than last year. Kotchman will be a fine defensive firstbaseman.[/quote']

 

For one, "range" is not the main factor on the quality of an Outfielder IMO.

 

Juan Pierre had much more speed and range than Jim Edmonds, but who was the better CF?

 

Also, i firmly believe Kotchman is a WCS.

[TheMino007]

WCS? Can i be informed to what that his hahaa? Anyway, range isn't the most important thing, but it can be beneficial granted a player doesn't believe too heavily in their ability to get every ball that his hit near them. If you got a a guy diving around for balls he has no business going for instead of just playing it safe, singles can turn into triples. But if you have a guy who takes the right angles to the ball and who covers a lot of ground, that seems like good run prevention to me.

[Dipre]

WCS? Can i be informed to what that his hahaa? Anyway' date=' range isn't the most important thing, but it can be beneficial granted a player doesn't believe too heavily in their ability to get every ball that his hit near them. If you got a a guy diving around for balls he has no business going for instead of just playing it safe, singles can turn into triples. [b']But if you have a guy who takes the right angles to the ball and who covers a lot of ground, that seems like good run prevention to me.[/b]

 

Worst-case scenario.

 

The bolded part describes Mike Cameron.