Why the obsession with A-Gon? Considering other alternatives...

[Palodios]

I keep looking at the rumors going around today, and I'm really not liking where the adrian gonzalez situation is going.

 

Let's consider the facts. He's an all-star player on a low budget team, making roughly 11 million dollars in the next two years. Sure that's a bit chunk of their budget, but at the same time big stars are profitable and sell tickets. Jed Hoyer knows the Sox farm system, and we can't pawn off average prospects on him like lowrie, bowden, etc. By the sound of it, they want Buch and Ellsbury, which weakens the rotation and leaves us looking at another hole in the outfield.

 

Trading Ellsbury isn't the answer. San Diego has no reason to trade A-gon unless we overpay- he's worth every penny there for the amount of fans he puts into the seats.

 

So I say, we need to move on, look at other options. Because of Youkilis and VMart, the team is very flexible, and can find a big bat in either 1st base, 3rd base.... and catcher.

 

I'm just throwing some uninformed babble out there, but I want to talk about the twins. They have two incredible bats in Mauer and Morneau, and while who wouldn't want to keep them, let's look at the money. Between those two players, they are making 1/3 of the team's salary. That's a ton of money. Morneau has a few years left on his contract, although how is he any less viable than Miguel Cabrera?

 

Mauer however, is the big deal. He's putting up hall of fame numbers every year. The twins have only one year left on him, and its unlikely that they'll be able to give him the ARod-sized contract that he's clearly worth. Unless they have an incredible season and think they'll need him for the playoffs, odds are that he will be traded by the deadline.

 

 

What about talking with the angels? They're coming off some tough loses with Lackey and Figgens gone, maybe if they start thinking "rebuilding year" they might be willing to trade some players for mid-level sox prospects in part of a 3 team deal.

 

My point is, Theo isn't going to trade CK, CB, JE, or any ridiculous package for A-gon, and we need to stop listening to the silly rumors going around. There are quite a few great players out there.What other alternatives are there?

[Dipre]

In all fairness, since you're stating that there are suitable alternatives, couldn't you provide us with some yourself?

[jacksonianmarch]

My guess is that the most suitable alternative is to wait a yr and go after Mauer or deal for AdGon then since he'd probably come a bit cheaper

[Dipre]

My guess is that the most suitable alternative is to wait a yr and go after Mauer or deal for AdGon then since he'd probably come a bit cheaper

 

Waiting on Mauer doesn't seem like such a good idea. All signs (New stadium, him being the franchise player) point to his staying in Minnesota.

 

Also, how is waiting a year to trade for A-Gon a suitable alternative to trading for A-Gon?

[jacksonianmarch]

the price comes down and your prospects' stock could get higher

[Emmz]

He will stay in Minnesota. The Twins will give him a massive contract, I guarantee this.

[Dipre]

the price comes down and your prospects' stock could get higher

 

Yes, i know that, but it's still trading for the same player. When you speak of suitable alternatives to fix a problem, you're talking about a solution different than the one stated in the first place.

[Emmz]

the price comes down and your prospects' stock could get higher

 

The prospects' stock could go down, as well. I don't think the answer is to trade Ellsbury with Buchholz, but rather to trade Buchholz with a few other prospects as well. Kelly, Westy, etc.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is an option because it doesnt open up as many holes in the trade. I get your point, but it would be prudent for the sox to hold back a season if they think the price is too high

[Red Foreman]

I keep looking at the rumors going around today, and I'm really not liking where the adrian gonzalez situation is going.

 

Let's consider the facts. He's an all-star player on a low budget team, making roughly 11 million dollars in the next two years. Sure that's a bit chunk of their budget, but at the same time big stars are profitable and sell tickets. Jed Hoyer knows the Sox farm system, and we can't pawn off average prospects on him like lowrie, bowden, etc. By the sound of it, they want Buch and Ellsbury, which weakens the rotation and leaves us looking at another hole in the outfield.

 

Trading Ellsbury isn't the answer. San Diego has no reason to trade A-gon unless we overpay- he's worth every penny there for the amount of fans he puts into the seats.

 

So I say, we need to move on, look at other options. Because of Youkilis and VMart, the team is very flexible, and can find a big bat in either 1st base, 3rd base.... and catcher.

 

I'm just throwing some uninformed babble out there, but I want to talk about the twins. They have two incredible bats in Mauer and Morneau, and while who wouldn't want to keep them, let's look at the money. Between those two players, they are making 1/3 of the team's salary. That's a ton of money. Morneau has a few years left on his contract, although how is he any less viable than Miguel Cabrera?

 

Mauer however, is the big deal. He's putting up hall of fame numbers every year. The twins have only one year left on him, and its unlikely that they'll be able to give him the ARod-sized contract that he's clearly worth. Unless they have an incredible season and think they'll need him for the playoffs, odds are that he will be traded by the deadline.

 

 

What about talking with the angels? They're coming off some tough loses with Lackey and Figgens gone, maybe if they start thinking "rebuilding year" they might be willing to trade some players for mid-level sox prospects in part of a 3 team deal.

 

My point is, Theo isn't going to trade CK, CB, JE, or any ridiculous package for A-gon, and we need to stop listening to the silly rumors going around. There are quite a few great players out there.What other alternatives are there?

 

 

From SD's standpoint, they have to play a 300 pounder (Blanks) in the outfield just to get him in the line up while they wait for 1B to open up.

[Dipre]

It is an option because it doesnt open up as many holes in the trade. I get your point' date=' but it would be prudent for the sox to hold back a season if they think the price is too high[/quote']

 

This is sensible, however, i believe mid-season to be the more likely scenario.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Clay + Ellsbury for Hanley

 

But really I'd rather we don't waste our valuable chips on a 1B since they are a dime a dozen

[Dipre]

Clay + Ellsbury for Hanley

 

But really I'd rather we don't waste our valuable chips on a 1B since they are a dime a dozen

 

Give me three more productive 1B than Adrian Gonzales or Miguel Cabrera.

[THE ARS]

Mark Texeira.

 

Albert Pujols.

 

Ryan Howard.

 

Prince Fielder.

 

 

Tom

[jacksonianmarch]

There are a few guys who fit inbetween the two. Gonzalez has had one really good yr, and that was 2009. Cabrera has been a top hitter for yrs

[Rdsxmbnt]

Pujols, Fielder, Youkillis, Howard, Tex are all definitely up to par along with Berkman, Helton, Lee, Morales, and Votto.

 

That's nine names of very productive 1B, add Cabrera and Gonzalez and that's 11.

 

Even if you don't need the superstar at the position, 17 guys posted OPSs over .850.

 

There are FAR fewer SS/C/CF out there so if we are going to trade someone like Ellsbury or Buchholz it should be for Hanley/Tulo/Zimmerman type.

[jacksonianmarch]

How about Teixeira

[Jasonbay44]

Mark Texeira.

 

Albert Pujols.

 

Ryan Howard.

 

Prince Fielder.

 

 

Tom

 

I wouldn't say Tex and Fielder are better then Miggy, their career OPS, OBP and slg% is almost identical, if anything, those guys are as good, but I wouldn't say their better.

[Cocos Disciples]

Mark Texeira.

 

Albert Pujols.

 

Ryan Howard.

 

Prince Fielder.

 

 

Tom

 

Disagree on Howard. You could make an argument for either Teixeira or Gonzalez. Pujols is a given. Fielder, probably.

 

Tom is not better than Gonzalez.

[Dipre]

Pujols, Fielder, Youkillis, Howard are all definitely up to par along with Berkman, Helton, Lee, Morales, and Votto.

 

That's nine names of very productive 1B, add Cabrera and Gonzalez and that's 11.

 

Even if you don't need the superstar at the position, 17 guys posted OPSs over .850.

 

There are FAR fewer SS/C/CF out there so if we are going to trade someone like Ellsbury or Buchholz it should be for Hanley/Tulo/Zimmerman type.

 

I asked for "More productive" first basemen, on both offense and defense.

 

The only 1B that was clearly more productive than Gonzales and Cabrera last season was Albert Pujols.

[Cocos Disciples]

There are FAR fewer SS/C/CF out there so if we are going to trade someone like Ellsbury or Buchholz it should be for Hanley/Tulo/Zimmerman type.

 

None of whom are available.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are talking one season and you are talking two players who are pretty far apart in ability. As good as Gonzo was for 2009, Cabrera is light yrs ahead of him in ability and reputation IMO.

[Dipre]

You are talking one season and you are talking two players who are pretty far apart in ability. As good as Gonzo was for 2009' date=' Cabrera is light yrs ahead of him in ability and reputation IMO.[/quote']

 

Four seasons with an OPS+ of over 125 while hitting in the Padres' lineup.

[Red Foreman]

Pujols, Fielder, Youkillis, Howard, Tex are all definitely up to par along with Berkman, Helton, Lee, Morales, and Votto.

 

That's nine names of very productive 1B, add Cabrera and Gonzalez and that's 11.

 

Even if you don't need the superstar at the position, 17 guys posted OPSs over .850.

 

There are FAR fewer SS/C/CF out there so if we are going to trade someone like Ellsbury or Buchholz it should be for Hanley/Tulo/Zimmerman type.

 

I'm all for Zimmerman but he isn't a SS/C/CF type, he's a 3B.

[Rdsxmbnt]

None of whom are available.

 

That's my point, the players we should be targeting in aren't available, so here's an idea: don't do anything, or at least something to the level of using all your chips on a 1B.

[Dipre]

That's my point' date=' the players we should be targeting in aren't available, so here's an idea: don't do anything, or at least something to the level of using all your chips on a 1B.[/quote']

 

I don't think the position matters when we're talking about a player who's capable of putting up a near 1.000 OPS, but i see where you're coming from.

[jacksonianmarch]

.865, .849, .871, .948. Three of those are above average for 1b's. The last one is stellar.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think the position matters when we're talking about a player who's capable of putting up a near 1.000 OPS' date=' but i see where you're coming from.[/quote']

 

I wouldnt put him in the near 1.000OPS category since he was 42 points away from 1.000 in his best season

[Dipre]

.865' date=' .849, .871, .948. Three of those are above average for 1b's. The last one is stellar.[/quote']

 

Petco Park.

 

That's why you use OPS+. It negates park factors.

 

Also, away OPS on those four seasons:

 

06: 905

 

07:.928

 

08:.946

 

09:.1.045 (!)

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think we can all agree Gonzalez is definitely in the upper tier of 1B...there just happens to be A LOT of company with him.

 

IMO it's not a wise investment to trade someone like Buchholz or Ellsbury for a 1B unless he is other-worldly like Pujols.