Unofficial Adrian Gonzalez thread.

[yankees228]

No.

 

You're putting words in my mouth.

 

This is not what is being argued here.

 

We're not arguing competitive disadvantages of the Yanks versus the Sox, the discussion is about whether or not the Red Sox spend to their capacity.

 

If we were going to the Yankees vs league argument, i would be quick to tell you that the sizable advantage they have is unfair, but they're simply taking advantage of a flawed system. This has always been my stance, and i highly doubt you can prove otherwise.

 

I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth, as I highlighted a specific quote, that if applied to one situation, in my opinion, should apply to another situation. If baseball is a business, which is what your quote leads me to believe is your opinion, then it should, in my opinion, apply to the example I provided.

[Dipre]

I don't think I'm putting words in your mouth' date=' as I highlighted a specific quote, that if applied to one situation, in my opinion, should apply to another situation. If baseball is a business, which is what your quote leads me to believe is your opinion, then it should, in my opinion, apply to the example I provided.[/quote']

 

It would if i had actually faulted the Yankees on actually taking advantage of their spending. I have always said it's the system's fault.

 

The issue here is that i said the Yanks "bought" the championship. They have an unfair advantage, but it's the system's fault, and it's their right to exercise it. Doesn't take away from the fact that it's unfair, and makes the league a laughingstock.

[yankees228]

Dipre, I understand that you were talking about the business aspect of the sport in a specific context (not the context of the example that I provided). I'm of the opinion that, if one is going to go by "baseball is a business stance" in one instance, then it should be applied in general. I might be called out for looking at things in black and white, but I just don't think you can pick and choose where you apply that statement. We simply disagree on this fact.

[Gom]

Is this really what you think? That they didn't sign Teixeira because of overall budget?

 

Did it occur to you that their offer to Teixeira would take them up to approximately the level they are at right now? Furthermore, is it possible that the budgeting allocation they were talking about was what they valued Teixeira's services to be worth, and not overall spending?

 

There are a lot of inaccurate assumptions in your thinking, but we've pretty much established that's regularly the case.

You don't remember Henry complaining about the Yankees signing Tex? Seriously?

[Dipre]

Dipre' date=' I understand that you were talking about the business aspect of the sport in a specific context (not the context of the example that I provided). I'm of the opinion that, if one is going to go by "baseball is a business stance" in one instance, then it should be applied in general. I might be called out for looking at things in black and white, but I just don't think you can pick and choose where you apply that statement. We simply disagree on this fact.[/quote']

 

That's your problem right there. You can't see things in black and white. Different contexts, different applications.

 

Agree to disagree. My point stands.

[yankees228]

It would if i had actually faulted the Yankees on actually taking advantage of their spending. I have always said it's the system's fault.

 

The issue here is that i said the Yanks "bought" the championship. They have an unfair advantage, but it's the system's fault, and it's their right to exercise it. Doesn't take away from the fact that it's unfair, and makes the league a laughingstock.

 

How in the world does it make the league a laughingstock? I would agree if the Yankees were winning every year, but, as I'm sure you know, that isn't the case. Clearly there is more to winning than just having the most money, as the results prove this.

[Dipre]

How in the world does it make the league a laughingstock? I would agree if the Yankees were winning every year' date=' but, as I'm sure you know, that isn't the case. Clearly there is more to winning than just having the most money, as the results prove this.[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, many non-baseball fans don't think the way you do. Besides, i'm not talking only about the Yankees financial advantage but overall league disparity. Poor choice of words on my behalf, i must admit.

[ORS]

You don't remember Henry complaining about the Yankees signing Tex? Seriously?

This does not address what I posted. I'll continue the discussion if you can stay on topic.

[yankees228]

Unfortunately' date=' many non-baseball fans don't think the way you do. Besides, i'm not talking only about the Yankees financial advantage but overall league disparity. Poor choice of words on my behalf, i must admit.[/quote']

 

Well, just because these non-baseball fans that you speak of see it as a laughingstock doesn't mean it is one. The results prove otherwise.

 

As for overall league disparity, in the last ten years, 23 of the 30 teams have made the postseason. Out of those ten years, we've had 8 different champions. When you consider that, out of the four major American sports, the MLB playoffs are the toughest to qualify for, I would say 23 is a solid number. Clearly, money plays a role, and it helps teams sustain success (some teams, not all), but there are a ton of other factors that must be considered.

[Dipre]

Well, just because these non-baseball fans that you speak of see it as a laughingstock doesn't mean it is one. The results prove otherwise.

 

As for overall league disparity, in the last ten years, 23 of the 30 teams have made the postseason. Out of those ten years, we've had 8 different champions. When you consider that, out of the four major American sports, the MLB playoffs are the toughest to qualify for, I would say 23 is a solid number. Clearly, money plays a role, and it helps teams sustain success (some teams, not all), but there are a ton of other factors that must be considered.

 

However, there is no denying that baseball is the most flawed of any sport. The Wild Card has helped ease this issue, notably because, as we agree on, the playoffs are a crapshoot, but still, the system needs fixing.

[a700hitter]

Also, a700, re: the ticket prices... I think it is time for this argument to go away. If you don't like the ticket prices stop going to the games.

 

I go to rougly 1 game a year. I don't live in the area and don't really have the chance. When I get to go it is great but you need to realize that a huge portion of Sox $$ comes from TV revenue, and that for every night that there are 38,000 people in the stands there are millions watching at home.

Do you think that the Red Sox would be so stupid as to lump ticket purchasers in with the millions who watch TV? I doubt it. I purchased between $4,000 to $5,000 in regular season tickets last year. Are there millions of me? In 2008, total gate receipts were $176 million. Mathematically, there couldn't be more than $40,000 fans who spend more than me. The actual number is probably much closer to 10,000 fans. If I walk away, sure they don't miss me, but if a thousand fans (a modest number) like me walk away thats $4 million. There aren't enough of you once a year fans to close that gap. If 10,000 were to walk away, that would be a financial disaster of a loss of $40 million in revenue. My point is that losing interest in relatively small numbers of ticket buying fans can have a major financial impact.

[Gom]

This does not address what I posted. I'll continue the discussion if you can stay on topic.

 

In 2008...Yankees sign free agent. Red Sox FO cries, claim poverty. RSN buys it.

 

In 2008...Red Sox don't sign any impact players. Claim poverty. RSN buys it.

 

In 2009...Red Sox FO claim payroll contraints. RSN buys it. Red Sox then sign impact players. Increase payroll dramatically without any obvious increase in revenue stream. RSN buys it.

 

You honestly don't see the hypocrisy of the Red Sox FO and the idiocy of the fans?

[Gom]

However' date=' there is no denying that baseball is the most flawed of any sport. The Wild Card has helped ease this issue, notably because, as we agree on, the playoffs are a crapshoot, but still, the system needs fixing.[/quote']

 

Do you really want it fixed? Honestly, ask yourself this question. As it is, you only have to beat one team with more resources than you. You have an advantage over 28 teams, and a disadvantage against one.

[yankees228]

However' date=' there is no denying that baseball is the most flawed of any sport. The Wild Card has helped ease this issue, notably because, as we agree on, the playoffs are a crapshoot, but still, the system needs fixing.[/quote']

 

The system certainly has it's flaws, but based on the overall results, it's hardly a laughingstock. The results prove that while money, for the most part, helps, it's hardly the end all be all.

[Dipre]

The system certainly has it's flaws' date=' but based on the overall results, it's hardly a laughingstock. The results prove that while money, for the most part, helps, it's hardly the end all be all.[/quote']

 

The system is not as even as you imply. Even though different teams win year-in/year-out, how many low payroll teams aside from the 2003 Marlins have won the World Series since 1995?

[Dipre]

Do you really want it fixed? Honestly' date=' ask yourself this question. As it is, you only have to beat one team with more resources than you. You have an advantage over 28 teams, and a disadvantage against one.[/quote']

 

I'm not a "sheep" of the current system.

 

I want the system to be fixed so i, as a fan of baseball, can experience high-quality baseball all around the league and a much more competitive environment.

[yankees228]

The system is not as even as you imply. Even though different teams win year-in/year-out' date=' how many low payroll teams aside from the 2003 Marlins have won the World Series since 1995?[/quote']

 

I don't think it's even, but for whatever reason, it's no different in other sports. You have your teams that are legitimate championship contenders year in and year out. You have your teams that just aren't. And you have your exceptions.

 

People can say what they want about the inequities of baseball compared to other sports, but, where it matters, on the field, it just isn't too different.

[Dipre]

I don't think it's even, but for whatever reason, it's no different in other sports. You have your teams that are legitimate championship contenders year in and year out. You have your teams that just aren't. And you have your exceptions.

 

People can say what they want about the inequities of baseball compared to other sports, but, where it matters, on the field, it just isn't too different.

 

The problem is, that in other sports, the balance of power usually shifts somewhat from time to time, that does not happen with baseball. And when a low-end team manages to field a highly competitive team, they usually have a "window" before they have to dismantle the current core due to payroll constraints.

[Gom]

I'm not a "sheep" of the current system.

 

I want the system to be fixed so i, as a fan of baseball, can experience high-quality baseball all around the league and a much more competitive environment.

 

This is fair. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it...and I respect you for it.

 

I for one, do not want it fixed. I like my team winning. I also invest heavily in my team. I buy 10 season tickets, and sell them. This basically is my spending cash for the year. In a normal season, I profit around 7-8 thousand. In a World series year, it jumps to over 20 thousand.

 

Why would I want that to go away? Fair play?

 

Funny concept.

 

I told you Dipre...trust me, I understand the business side of this better than anyone here.

[Dipre]

This is fair. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it...and I respect you for it.

 

I for one, do not want it fixed. I like my team winning. I also invest heavily in my team. I buy 10 season tickets, and sell them. This basically is my spending cash for the year. In a normal season, I profit around 7-8 thousand. In a World series year, it jumps to over 20 thousand.

 

Why would I want that to go away? Fair play?

 

Funny concept.

 

I told you Dipre...trust me, I understand the business side of this better than anyone here.

 

Unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority.

[Palodios]

If you really want to talk league disparities, lets talk NFL. Right now 7 teams have won 70% or more of their games. 5 Teams have 4 or less wins.

 

In the NFL, when the Saints play the Lions, the Saints will always win. In the mlb, teams like Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Colorado can go to the playoffs.

 

Better yet, how about we talk the New Jersey Nets?

[Dipre]

If you really want to talk league disparities, lets talk NFL. Right now 7 teams have won 70% or more of their games. 5 Teams have 4 or less wins.

 

In the NFL, when the Saints play the Lions, the Saints will always win. In the mlb, teams like Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Colorado can go to the playoffs.

 

Better yet, how about we talk the New Jersey Nets?

 

A couple years ago, the Nets were year-in /year-out playoffs visitors. The balance of power switches hands.

[Gom]

Unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority.

 

Not at all. I just understand the business side of it, as in my own way, I'm in business with the Yankees. Their product on the field directly impacts me financially.

[Dipre]

Not at all. I just understand the business side of it' date='[b'] as in my own way[/b], I'm in business with the Yankees. Their product on the field directly impacts me financially.

 

Case in point.

 

No sense talking to you about it.

[Tyler Durden]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/adrian-gonzalez-rumors-saturday.html

 

9:04pm: This morning, ESPN's Jayson Stark told WJAB Radio in Portland, Maine that he was told by sources all throughout the winter meetings not to buy into any talk of Adrian Gonzalez being dealt this winter.

[yankees228]

The problem is' date=' that in other sports, the balance of power usually shifts somewhat from time to time, that does not happen with baseball. And when a low-end team manages to field a highly competitive team, they usually have a "window" before they have to dismantle the current core due to payroll constraints.[/quote']

 

If a different does exist, I really think you're exaggerating it.

 

Lets take a look at the NBA. Over the ten years, 5 teams have won a title. Now, this is up for debate, but all things considered, a significant amount of those teams, within this ten years period, have never been championship contenders, or have only been for one or two seasons.

[Dipre]

If a different does exist, I really think you're exaggerating it.

 

Lets take a look at the NBA. Over the ten years, 5 teams have won a title. Now, this is up for debate, but all things considered, a significant amount of those teams, within this ten years period, have never been championship contenders, or have only been for one or two seasons.

 

The point is up for debate, because you know that under that scenario, baseball and basketball cannot be considered an apples to apples comparison.

[yankees228]

The point is up for debate' date=' because you know that under that scenario, baseball and basketball cannot be considered an apples to apples comparison.[/quote']

 

You said baseball is the most flawed of any sport. You began the comparisons, and I don't believe the facts support that.

[SoxSport]

I'm reading a bunch of posts trying to put the Red Sox in the same spending class as the Yankees.That's impossible, since most revenue in sports these days comes from TV and marketing. And NY is by far the biggest market. The Red Sox cannot compete with the Yankees dollar for dollar. Period.

 

The only team in baseball that can come close to the Yankees in spending is the other NY team, the Mets, now that they also have their own cable network. But their owner, Wilpon, is in financial hot water due to the Madoff scandal, and they have backed off some in their spending.

[yankees228]

I'm reading a bunch of posts trying to put the Red Sox in the same spending class as the Yankees.That's impossible, since most revenue in sports these days comes from TV and marketing. And NY is by far the biggest market. The Red Sox cannot compete with the Yankees dollar for dollar. Period.

 

The only team in baseball that can come close to the Yankees in spending is the other NY team, the Mets, now that they also have their own cable network. But their owner, Wilpon, is in financial hot water due to the Madoff scandal, and they have backed off some in their spending.

 

Only one poster is trying to contend that the Red Sox can compete dollar for dollar with the Yankees.