The John Lackey Thread

[yankees228]

I have, and the above is why I say you are taking my position to the extreme, to the only place where a contradiction can be found. I'm sorry, but I don't see the world in black and white. I see it in gray, which acknowledges takes some of the black and some of the white.

 

There's no double standard at play here. I think the Red Sox success is largely due to their financial advantage too, as I've communicated several times. So, no, you don't know what an attempt to portray two similar things differently is, because your accusation is incorrect.

 

In one instance you played up the importance of what a team looks like on paper.

 

In another instance you played down the importance of what a team looks like on paper.

 

Whatever, this clearly is going nowhere. I see that as an attempt to create a double standard, clearly you see things differently.

[MNSoxChief102]

Deal is done according to Heyman @ SI... 5 years, $85 mil

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/heyman.lackey.redsox/index.html

[MNSoxChief102]

ESPN reporting it as well...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4741437

[Red Foreman]

Umm Tex is way better than Youkilis... I don't understand that theory. Also' date=' I could see Youk playing LF at Fenway, but on the road that is a whole different story. You want to talk about range issues, well there ya go.[/quote']

 

 

What theory don't you get? Look at the numbers before dismissing Youk.

[26 to 6]

Is it 5 years/$85m or 5 years/$82.5m? I've heard both.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Are you 12? First of all, you are f***ing psycho if you think the red sox go out and get AGon and Lackey while NY just stands pat not reinforcing the rotation or filling the hole in LF. Psycho.

 

Second, you keep forgetting why your sox were in that predicament in the first place. Beckett fell apart down the stretch, the sox defense was putrid, and the offense went into a hole. Well, Beckett's still there, the defense is worse with Scutaro than with AGon and no better with Vmart taking over for Tek, and you essentially lose Lowell and Bay and replace them with Adrian Gonzalez and Jeremy Hermida, which IMO is a downgrade.

 

Third, you seem to forget just how big of a gap there is between the two. 8 games and it could have been 10-15 if the Yankees didnt ease off the pedal at the end.

 

Going by defensive spot since lineup is too hard to do right now since NY has a lot up in the air

 

C- Posada vs VMart- Posada has had a better OPS for 4 yrs running now

1B- Teixeira vs Gonzalez- Gonzo had a 10 point advantage over Tex in 2009, but Tex blew him away every yr prior to this one

2B- Cano vs Pedroia- Pedroia may have an MVP, but Cano has had a higher OPS 2 of the 3 yrs Pedroia has been in the game

SS- Jeter vs Scutaro- no contest

3B- Rodriguez vs Youkilis- Youkilis has been on par or better with ARod for the past 2 yrs, but ARod did slug more homers even though he missed a month

LF- Cabrera vs Hermida- they both had incredibly similar yrs last yr

CF- Granderson vs Ellsbury- This isnt even close. Grandy had an off yr in a bad ballpark for lefties and he still had a higher OPS and slugged 30 homers. Move him to the homerdome for 81 games and to the yankee lineup and Grandy is the much better offensive player

RF- Drew vs Swisher- Drew is the better hitter, although Swisher isnt too far behind him in OPS

DH- ??? vs Ortiz- OPS under .800 for Ortiz in a yr when he looked defeated and slow. Another yr of father time and this one could hurt. I fully expect either Matsui or Damon to be manning this role for 2010, and I would take both of them over Ortiz offensively.

 

C- advantage Posada

1B- even if you go back only one yr, although I think Tex is a better bet to maintain

2B- even, although Cano was better for 2 of the last 3 yrs

SS- advantage Jeter

3B- Youkilis with the better 2009 by a small margin, ARod now healthy is a winner IMO

LF- Hermida with the slight edge since he has more upside

CF- Granderson by far

RF- Drew wins that one

DH- Matsui or Damon over Ortiz

 

Sorry JimEd, still gotta fill another hole in LF to overtake the boys in pinstripes

 

Good luck scoring vs. Sox staff.......

[BoSox21]

Is it 5 years/$85m or 5 years/$82.5m? I've heard both.

 

does it matter?

[CoachC.]

5/85, AJ was 5/82.5 and they were just using that for comparison as a benchmark

[JimEdHOF2009]

Posada is not a better hitter than Victor Martinez...sorry... Martinez had virtually no protection in CLE....NONE! Posada has an All-Star or Former All-Star at every f***ing position! There is no end to a Yankee fan's myopia!

 

Victor Martinez is also a f***ing catcher while Posada is a DH now.. Martinez is so much more valuable than Posada at this point in THEIR careers it is hardly quantifiable..

 

I cannot wait to hear Yankee fans telling me how TEX is better than Adrian Gonzalez once we get him... If you adjust the numbers for Park Factors...which I will... A-Gone is better than TEX..and not by a small margin~! I cannot f***ing wait to pay all of the M-n-fers back!

[Gom]

I think you need to debate the AG versus Tex debate when you get him.

 

Nice move on getting Lackey. I didn't think you guys had a shot at getting him. This gives you guys the best starting rotation in the game right now.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Teixeira led the league in HR' date=' [b']RBI[/b], and TB. He had a more productive season.

 

/your credibility

[arbitrary]

How does this affect Beckett's contract year? or is that another thread?

[Dojji]

Not much, prolly.

[Rdsxmbnt]

probably sets a benchmark for where a Beckett deal should be since they are extremely similar players in terms of output

[arbitrary]

less likely to resign Beckett now?

[CoachC.]

less likely to resign Beckett now?

 

Just as likely I'd say. We now have a fallback plan though in case Beckett doesn't sign an extension.

[farmball]

Lackey for $17/year seems to be appropriate value given his recent track record and the few options in the market but the Sox still need a cog to replace Bay.

 

Lackey will help just as much as a good hitter over the course of the regular season but once you get to the postseason, having that much talent, Buchholz and Daisuke, in the 4th and 5th rotation slots seems a bit wasteful. IIRC, James' projections have them both as low-4 era pitchers this year. Especially if you're going with Kotchman and a Hermida platoon to replace Bay. Just doesn't make sense.

 

Taking a peak at the Sox' payroll going into next year. If they commit to all the remaining players on the books for 09, I'm estimating they will be at $130-135 mil (taking Lowell trade into account). Add Lackey (let's say the contract is spread evenly) and that goes to $147-$152 a year. That gives you about $20 mil to work with before you hit the luxury tax threshold. The Sox hit that threshold in 2004 so they would be penalized 30% for every dollar spent over $170 mil.

 

I'd love to see them sign Holliday. He is the jewel of this year's free agent class but it will take $20 mil/yr to get him. The Sox hiking up payroll $50 mil in a single offseason (from $121-170) would be unprecedented for the Sox, even in the Duquette era. It seems more likely that the team is preparing to package Buchholz for a young hitter. It seems counter-intuitive that the Sox would trade a young pitcher but given they are reportedly trying to re-sign Beckett, Buchholz' role would be less important with three "aces" signed to long-term deals and Daisuke on the books through 2012.

[Gom]

Ever notice how people flock to the board when the Sox do something big?

[arbitrary]

Ever notice how people flock to the board when the Sox do something big?

 

Its distracting me from my final paper comparing "Order" and "Control" economic theory. I suppose I'm in a thinking mode.

[redsoxrules]

Ever notice how people flock to the board when the Sox do something big?

 

its the same way when something big happens to the yankees

[Gom]

What happened to "not being able to compete with the Yankees"?

 

More proof of the front office's pulling the wool over the eyes of their fans. Remember that the Sox have made the biggest contract move of the off-season so far, and probably the second-biggest this off-season when all is said and done. If this was the Yankees...cries of the evil empire, financial inequities...gotta love hypocrisy.

[TedWilliams101]

Ever notice how people flock to the board when the Sox do something big?

 

It makes sense to be less active during the offseason when nothing is happening and come back when there is actually something to talk about. These Holliday vs Bay threads can only go so far before everyone is just repeating themselves.

[Rdsxmbnt]

It makes sense to be less active during the offseason when nothing is happening and come back when there is actually something to talk about. These Holliday vs Bay threads can only go so far before everyone is just repeating themselves.

 

At which point everyone begins name calling and natural selection weeds out some of the people

[farmball]

Just as likely I'd say. We now have a fallback plan though in case Beckett doesn't sign an extension.

 

Hard to say. If you go down the line and look at Sox commitments in 2010 vs. 2011, about 28 mil comes off the books. (I'm new so I cant post the link to the contracts).

 

That doesn't take into account the addition of Lackey at let's say 17 (85/5), a new DH, and our corner infield replacement.

 

It would seem really odd that the Sox are bringing in Lackey, who is virtually the same/maybe slightly lesser than Beckett, to replace Beckett...instead of just focusing on extending Beckett.

 

Buchholz appears to be gone.

[Gom]

Why is Buchholz gone? Why not just keep him?

[Dojji]

Why is Buchholz gone? Why not just keep him?

 

I agree with Gom.

[yankees228]

Why is Buchholz gone? Why not just keep him?

 

Right, I don't get this. Buchholz may very well be traded, but signing Lackey is hardly proof that it's going to happen.

[bsox0407]

Right' date=' I don't get this. Buchholz may very well be traded, but signing Lackey is hardly proof that it's going to happen.[/quote']

 

If the sox can sign a 3b and keep what we have in the Pitching Rotation it would be awesome.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm not thrilled that its five years, but I'll take it. Lester, Beckett, Lackey is a great front three and potential playoff rotation.

[bsox0407]

I'm not thrilled that its five years' date=' but I'll take it. Lester, Beckett, Lackey is a great front three and potential playoff rotation.[/quote']

 

Just gotta sign an extension with Beckett it would be even better.