The John Lackey Thread

[ORS]

Scutaro

Pedroia

Adrian Gonzalez

Youkilis

Vic Martinez

Drew

Lowell

Ortiz

Ellsbury

LF?

 

Remove Lowell and add Holliday, then we are talking about a potential "best ever" Sox team, on paper, that is. These things have a funny way of not always ending up like the paper suggests they should.

[Dojji]

I think you'd almost have to put Youk in LF to make that lineup work wouldn't you? I mean otherwise you either have 3 1B's (Youk, Ortiz, Adrian Gonzalez) or two 3B's (Youk, Lowell)

 

And no way, no way, no freaking way is Scutaro leading off for this team. No. Just not happening. Ellsbury, Pedroia, and probably Drew lead off before Scutaro does.

[JimEdHOF2009]

They would be good' date=' but the best team ever? Cmon now, I dont think its enough to get back into the AL East, let alone the best team you have ever seen.[/quote']

 

The ABOVE team is MUCH better than the Yankees are.. MUCH better..and deeper.

 

Lester and CC is a wash

Beckett >Burnett

Lackey> Pettite

Dice K > Chamberlain(he sucks as a starter)

Wakefield > than whatever jobber the Yankees run out there.

 

HUGE staff advantage to Sox.

 

Pedroia > Granderson... one is an MVP..one is not.

Scutaro

Youkilis=Texeira

Gonzalez=Arod( When you adjust for Park Factors Gonzo was MUCH, MUCH better in 2009)

VicMart>Posada

Drew>Swisher

Ellsbury>>>>>>>>>WAY GREATER than Gardener

Ortiz ??? Who is Yankee DH??

Hermida WHO IS YANKEE Leftfielder? Hermida is as good as Melky..at least

 

Red Sox pen is MUCH deeper...

 

Sox will beat Yankees by 7 games minimum assuming they get Gonzo... Gonzo will TERRORIZE Yankee pitching ...especially the short porch in Right at Yankee Stadium! Gonzo is also very adept at going the other way which will have him leading the league in doubles as he dents the Mawnstuh repeatedly~!

[a700hitter]

I think you'd almost have to put Youk in LF to make that lineup work wouldn't you? I mean otherwise you either have 3 1B's (Youk' date=' Ortiz, Adrian Gonzalez) or two 3B's (Youk, Lowell)[/quote']It's the perfect Joe Maddon lineup.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I think you'd almost have to put Youk in LF to make that lineup work wouldn't you? I mean otherwise you either have 3 1B's (Youk' date=' Ortiz, Adrian Gonzalez) or two 3B's (Youk, Lowell)[/quote']

 

That may be EXACTLY what happens... Youk..given time to practice in ST.. is at least as good as BAY...which isn;t saying much. LF defense in Fenway doesn't matter too much.. it would be on the road at more spacious ballparks.. Which is fine.. we can throw Hermida..or some other scrub OF'er in late innings for defense. Cameron would be a good guy to get and move Ellsbury to left.

[CoachC.]

Youkilis=Texeira

 

I'd say Tex is slightly better.

 

 

Ellsbury>>>>>>>>>WAY GREATER than Crosby

 

 

Who is crosby?

[Dojji]

That may be EXACTLY what happens... Youk..given time to practice in ST.. is at least as good as BAY...which isn;t saying much. LF defense in Fenway doesn't matter too much.. it would be on the road at more spacious ballparks.. Which is fine.. we can throw Hermida..or some other scrub OF'er in late innings for defense. Cameron would be a good guy to get and move Ellsbury to left.

 

I'd like to hope we can move Lowell instead. This isn't going to help either Youk or the team.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I'd say Tex is slightly better.

 

 

 

Who is crosby?

 

sorry...Brett Gardener.. He is a much better hitter...and he is faster.

[arbitrary]

DAMNIT, I writting my last paper for finals. This is not the time for the sox to do this and distract me!!!

[yeszir]

Threads merged

[yankees228]

LF?

 

Remove Lowell and add Holliday, then we are talking about a potential "best ever" Sox team, on paper, that is. These things have a funny way of not always ending up like the paper suggests they should.

 

Wait a second. You continue to stand by your point that a great deal of the Yankees' success can be attributed to their ability to spend, suggesting that the Yankees are doing a lot of their winning on paper. When I mentioned, awhile ago, that the Yankees still need to win the games out on the field, you were quick to dismiss the notion.

 

On the other hand, when presented with the possibility of the Red Sox having a great offseason, one in which they would have to spend a significant amount of money, you're very quick to say that what a team is on paper doesn't necessarily reflect what they're going to be on the field. In my opinion, that's a contradiction.

[TheMino007]

Umm Tex is way better than Youkilis... I don't understand that theory. Also, I could see Youk playing LF at Fenway, but on the road that is a whole different story. You want to talk about range issues, well there ya go.

[CoachC.]

John Lackey traveled to Boston for a physical exam Monday, and a baseball source said the Red Sox are making progress toward an agreement with the free agent right-hander.

 

A source said that it is "not likely" that an agreement would be in place or an announcement would be made by the end of Monday

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4741437

[ORS]

Wait a second. You continue to stand by your point that a great deal of the Yankees' success can be attributed to their ability to spend, suggesting that the Yankees are doing a lot of their winning on paper. When I mentioned, awhile ago, that the Yankees still need to win the games out on the field, you were quick to dismiss the notion.

 

On the other hand, when presented with the possibility of the Red Sox having a great offseason, one in which they would have to spend a significant amount of money, you're very quick to say that what a team is on paper doesn't necessarily reflect what they're going to be on the field. In my opinion, that's a contradiction.

And that's a faulty opinion. With these types of moves, expectations can rightly be raised, with raised expectations comes a diminishment of the accomplishment if it is realized. All I'm saying is, in the words or Warner Wolf, "Let's not go sucking each others dicks just yet." Sure, raise the expectations, but don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

 

My comment still fits with what I've posted on the subject before. It only doesn't fit if you take me comments to the extreme, which you appear to be doing.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I'd say Tex is slightly better.

 

 

 

Who is crosby?

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. but fortunately numbers don't lie....

 

Youks 2009 .306(BA)/.413(OBP)/.961(OPS)

TEX 2009 .292(BA)/.383/.958

 

***Given the fact that Youks had very little protection compared to Tex... Youks was more than a PUSH with Tex..he was BETTER in 2009!

 

 

Youks 2008 .312/.390/.958

TEX 2008 .308/.410/.962

 

 

So explain to me again..why Tex is better?

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you 12? First of all, you are f***ing psycho if you think the red sox go out and get AGon and Lackey while NY just stands pat not reinforcing the rotation or filling the hole in LF. Psycho.

 

Second, you keep forgetting why your sox were in that predicament in the first place. Beckett fell apart down the stretch, the sox defense was putrid, and the offense went into a hole. Well, Beckett's still there, the defense is worse with Scutaro than with AGon and no better with Vmart taking over for Tek, and you essentially lose Lowell and Bay and replace them with Adrian Gonzalez and Jeremy Hermida, which IMO is a downgrade.

 

Third, you seem to forget just how big of a gap there is between the two. 8 games and it could have been 10-15 if the Yankees didnt ease off the pedal at the end.

 

Going by defensive spot since lineup is too hard to do right now since NY has a lot up in the air

 

C- Posada vs VMart- Posada has had a better OPS for 4 yrs running now

1B- Teixeira vs Gonzalez- Gonzo had a 10 point advantage over Tex in 2009, but Tex blew him away every yr prior to this one

2B- Cano vs Pedroia- Pedroia may have an MVP, but Cano has had a higher OPS 2 of the 3 yrs Pedroia has been in the game

SS- Jeter vs Scutaro- no contest

3B- Rodriguez vs Youkilis- Youkilis has been on par or better with ARod for the past 2 yrs, but ARod did slug more homers even though he missed a month

LF- Cabrera vs Hermida- they both had incredibly similar yrs last yr

CF- Granderson vs Ellsbury- This isnt even close. Grandy had an off yr in a bad ballpark for lefties and he still had a higher OPS and slugged 30 homers. Move him to the homerdome for 81 games and to the yankee lineup and Grandy is the much better offensive player

RF- Drew vs Swisher- Drew is the better hitter, although Swisher isnt too far behind him in OPS

DH- ??? vs Ortiz- OPS under .800 for Ortiz in a yr when he looked defeated and slow. Another yr of father time and this one could hurt. I fully expect either Matsui or Damon to be manning this role for 2010, and I would take both of them over Ortiz offensively.

 

C- advantage Posada

1B- even if you go back only one yr, although I think Tex is a better bet to maintain

2B- even, although Cano was better for 2 of the last 3 yrs

SS- advantage Jeter

3B- Youkilis with the better 2009 by a small margin, ARod now healthy is a winner IMO

LF- Hermida with the slight edge since he has more upside

CF- Granderson by far

RF- Drew wins that one

DH- Matsui or Damon over Ortiz

 

Sorry JimEd, still gotta fill another hole in LF to overtake the boys in pinstripes

[TheMino007]

Tex is a better power hitter than Youk for his career, higher slugging, higher OPS, more home runs.

[yankees228]

And that's a faulty opinion. With these types of moves, expectations can rightly be raised, with raised expectations comes a diminishment of the accomplishment if it is realized. All I'm saying is, in the words or Warner Wolf, "Let's not go sucking each others dicks just yet." Sure, raise the expectations, but don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

 

My comment still fits with what I've posted on the subject before. It only doesn't fit if you take me comments to the extreme, which you appear to be doing.

 

I'm not taking your comments to the extreme at all. The fact of the matter is that you were very quick to acknowledge how an excellent offseason isn't necessarily equal to success, because the games need to be won on the field.

 

When it comes to the Red Sox, you were very quick to point this out. The same thing applies to the Yankees, and in the context of a discussion in which it was relevant, you made no mention of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

And that's a faulty opinion. With these types of moves, expectations can rightly be raised, with raised expectations comes a diminishment of the accomplishment if it is realized. All I'm saying is, in the words or Warner Wolf, "Let's not go sucking each others dicks just yet." Sure, raise the expectations, but don't be surprised if it doesn't happen.

 

My comment still fits with what I've posted on the subject before. It only doesn't fit if you take me comments to the extreme, which you appear to be doing.

 

ORS, he's called you out a few times on here and has been right.

[Teddyballgame10]

They would be good' date=' but the best team ever? Cmon now, I dont think its enough to get back into the AL East, let alone the best team you have ever seen.[/quote']

 

We would be better but the Yankees still have the edge. If we get another bat though its game on.

[CoachC.]

This is stupid. The Yankees are better right now, but the difference is not as much as Jacko would want us to believe. Let's keep this conversation to John Lackey and the Red Sox rotation.

[Tyler Durden]

You guys should wait to compare lineups until spring... Yankees and Sox aren't done making moves.

[Tyler Durden]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. but fortunately numbers don't lie....

 

Youks 2009 .306(BA)/.413(OBP)/.961(OPS)

TEX 2009 .292(BA)/.383/.958

 

***Given the fact that Youks had very little protection compared to Tex... Youks was more than a PUSH with Tex..he was BETTER in 2009!

 

 

Youks 2008 .312/.390/.958

TEX 2008 .308/.410/.962

 

 

So explain to me again..why Tex is better?

 

Teixeira led the league in HR, RBI, and TB. He had a more productive season.

[Dojji]

You guys should wait to compare lineups until spring... Yankees and Sox aren't done making moves.

 

Agreed. This kind of talk is just pointless right now. Too much is liable to change.

[BoSox21]

Jacko's just upset cause he knows Lackey makes the Sox rotation considerably better than last year

[jacksonianmarch]

Lackey makes any rotation better

[BoSox21]

Right, but in this case it appears he's going to the rotation belonging to the Yankees' direct rival

[ORS]

I'm not taking your comments to the extreme at all. The fact of the matter is that you were very quick to acknowledge how an excellent offseason isn't necessarily equal to success, because the games need to be won on the field.

 

When it comes to the Red Sox, you were very quick to point this out. The same thing applies to the Yankees, and in the context of a discussion in which it was relevant, you made no mention of it.

You are reaching.

 

I've said all along that winning, even with an advantage, is an accomplishment, but the accomplishment is diminished by the advantage.

 

Here's an idea, show me where I have said otherwise, and I'll continue this discussion. Short of that, I'm not interested.

 

ORS, he's called you out a few times on here and has been right.

No, he hasn't. He continually misrepresents my position. You can't be right when you can't get the idea you are attempting to counter right.

[jacksonianmarch]

It happens. Being two big market clubs, both teams are going to make big acquisitions.

[Tyler Durden]

In his career, Lackey is 5-7 with a 4.66 ERA vs. the Yankees in 16 starts.

 

I would have thought he had done better.