Sox Considering Moving Pedroia to SS

[Gom]

Haha watching mlb network's hot stove. A quote from Dustin Pedroia

 

"Tell Derek Jeter to enjoy his gold glove and silver slugger awards while he can."

 

Finish the quote:

 

"When the idea of moving back to shortstop was floated to me, I welcomed it," Pedroia told ESPN.com. "I'm excited. Tell Derek [Jeter] to enjoy the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger awards while he can. Obviously, I'm not serious about the fun I have with Derek, but I'm never stopping believing in the goal. I believe I can play shortstop and help get the Red Sox back where they belong."

 

Your quote fragment makes him look like an *******. His full quote does not.

 

I can't believe I'm defending a f***ing Red Sox.

[TheMino007]

Beltre has something like a .320 OBP, since that is the stat the FO lives and dies by apparently, I don't think they feel he would be good fit in Boston. Playing at Fenway will spike his numbers, but there is still not much more upside that Beltre has over Lowell.

 

Anyway, can Chone Figgnins still play Shortstop?

[Dipre]

Beltre has something like a .320 OBP, since that is the stat the FO lives and dies by apparently, I don't think they feel he would be good fit in Boston. Playing at Fenway will spike his numbers, but there is still not much more upside that Beltre has over Lowell.

 

Anyway, can Chone Figgnins still play Shortstop?

 

.325 lifetime.

 

However, the power potential and defensive capabilities speak volumes about his potential "Fit" in Boston. He's also pretty healthy except for his (literally) busting a nut last year.

 

Figgins should not be a possibility for the Sox, he's going to get a lot of money and a lot of years and will become a liability at any position soon.

[BSN07]

Beltre has something like a .320 OBP, since that is the stat the FO lives and dies by apparently, I don't think they feel he would be good fit in Boston. Playing at Fenway will spike his numbers, but there is still not much more upside that Beltre has over Lowell.

 

Anyway, can Chone Figgnins still play Shortstop?

 

Lowell's OBP has been .337 and .338 the last two years. So in a 1000 AB's Lowell will get on base 18 more times then Beltre. OMG how could the Red Sox ever survive such an offensive drop off? Let's ignore also Beltre is what 5 years younger, has more power potential and at this point is probably the better defender in the field.

 

Figgins SS really? You don't think he would have already been marketing himself as one if that was the case? It would probably double(exaggeration) his contract demands.

[Dipre]

Lowell's OBP has been .337 and .338 the last two years. So in a 1000 AB's Lowell will get on base 18 more times then Beltre. OMG how could the Red Sox ever survive such an offensive drop off? Let's ignore also Beltre is what 5 years younger, has more power potential and at this point is probably the better defender in the field.

 

Figgins SS really? You don't think he would have already been marketing himself as one if that was the case? It would probably double(exaggeration) his contract demands.

 

Not only that, but please check his OBP away from Safeco.

 

If you adjust for what would be regular home/road splits for a player, Beltre is a fantastic candidate for a monster year at a stadium like Fenway or Citizens Bank Park.

[Dojji]

 

A) So there is virtually no offensive upside from Beltre to Lowell? Last i checked, defense is an integral part of a championship team, Beltre can provide the same level of offense and GG defense.

 

That's the reason I don't reject the idea out of hand. Add to that Beltre's demonstrated ability to have a monster year and it is appealing. But you can't pretend the guy has been anything resembling consistent.

 

B ) So he doesn't play all his games at Safeco? Did you take the time to check his splits before making that claim? And also, does Lowell walk AT ALL? No, but Beltre should hit for more power while, as stated above, provide better defense.

 

Lowell doesn't walk much, but he hits for high enough average to maintain a tolerable OBP. The last time Beltre had an OBP as good as Lowell's career average was his amazing, mostrous, no-way-in-hell-he-does-it-again breakout season in 2004.

His splits from 2007-2009:

 

Home: .703 OPS.

 

Road: .813 OPS.

 

He did the same thing with the Dodgers, and Dodger Stadium is on the big side, but not exactly as big as Safeco National Park.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2002&t=b

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2003&t=b

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2004&t=b

 

As you can see, even in his breakout year, Beltre hit better on the road. I don't think you can blame all of that on playing 19 games at pre-humidor Coors Field either.

 

So this is hardly a phenomenon reserved to his Mariners days. the guy is apparently just a road warrior. And before you try that hard to put your interpretation on the numbers, and especially before you mock people about the numbers, you might try looking at ALL of them.

 

C) His highest strikeout number is 118, how does that constitute an obscene amount?

 

2007-2009 K totals:

 

104

 

90.

 

74.

 

I don't mean to be a dick, but seriously, check the stats.

 

And take a look at his bb/k while you're at it. Rarely better than 1:3. The guy walks maybe 40 tiimes a season in a good year.

[Dipre]

That's the reason I don't reject the idea out of hand. Add to that Beltre's demonstrated ability to have a monster year and it is appealing. But you can't pretend the guy has been anything resembling consistent.

 

However, he's healthy, and can play defense.

 

Lowell doesn't walk much, but he hits for high enough average to maintain a tolerable OBP. The last time Beltre had an OBP as good as Lowell's career average was his amazing, mostrous, no-way-in-hell-he-does-it-again breakout season in 2004.

 

Throw Lowell at Safeco for 81 games then get back to me.

 

He did the same thing with the Dodgers, and Dodger Stadium is on the big side, but not exactly as big as Safeco National Park.

 

Take the road splits, and then adjust home splits thinking he was playing at Fenway.

 

You don't see it yet?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2002&t=b

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2003&t=b

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=beltrad01&year=2004&t=b

 

As you can see, even in his breakout year, Beltre hit better on the road. I don't think you can blame all of that on playing 19 games at pre-humidor Coors Field either.

 

So this is hardly a phenomenon reserved to his Mariners days. the guy is apparently just a road warrior. And before you try that hard to put your interpretation on the numbers, and especially before you mock people about the numbers, you might try looking at ALL of them.

 

Dodger stadium is murder on RHH as well,the fact that you're mentioning yet another enormous stadium doesn't help your argument, it helps mine. The only thing you need to interpret is the potential in taking the guy out of Safeco (Or Dodger stadium for that matter) and putting them in righty-friendly Fenway with his road splits.

 

It's also hilarious you're telling me to go look at "All the numbers" when you hadn't looked at any of them and just "stated your mind" in the first place.

 

And take a look at his bb/k while you're at it. There's bad, and then there's Beltre bad. The guy walks maybe 30 tiimes a season in a good year.

 

Save-face attempt.

 

Your point was he struck out an "Obscene amount of times", i looked up the stats and concluded otherwise. What does his k/bb have to do with anything?

 

 

You hype every s***** player in the universe (Nick Green) but when presented with a good player that might be realistically acquired and would help improve the ballclub (Tex, Beltre) you have an objection.

 

What is wrong with you?

[jacksonianmarch]

Beltre is a wild card. He is coming off an injury that limited him to 111 games and divided his manhood in half. Now, one could hope and wish on a prayer that he returns to his 2004 form when he had an OPS over 1 and hit 48 homers. But I have to think that that player is long gone.

 

He's been in the bigs for 11 full seasons. He's had an OPS over .800 3 times (..835, .801, 1.017). He's put up 20 homers or more 7 times with one season at 19. He's walked 50PAs or more only 4 times in his career and has K'd in over 100ABs 5 times. His BA has been over .280 twice in his career, the last being his ridiculous 2004 season.

 

So, he is what he is. He's had chronic injuries that he can play through (his ankles have been operated on a few times now) and he's had one big injury that shouldnt be chronic (contused testicle). He plays a good D. He's good for a line of .265 20HR 85RBI regularly with an OPS in the high .700s. In Fenway, maybe he's .275 25HR 90RBI with an OPS right around .800. He wont all of a sudden regain 2004 form by ballpark alone. But at the same time, his D plus his O makes him valuable as a bottom third of the order stick in the lineup.

[Dipre]

Beltre is a wild card. He is coming off an injury that limited him to 111 games and divided his manhood in half. Now, one could hope and wish on a prayer that he returns to his 2004 form when he had an OPS over 1 and hit 48 homers. But I have to think that that player is long gone.

 

He's been in the bigs for 11 full seasons. He's had an OPS over .800 3 times (..835, .801, 1.017). He's put up 20 homers or more 7 times with one season at 19. He's walked 50PAs or more only 4 times in his career and has K'd in over 100ABs 5 times. His BA has been over .280 twice in his career, the last being his ridiculous 2004 season.

 

So, he is what he is. He's had chronic injuries that he can play through (his ankles have been operated on a few times now) and he's had one big injury that shouldnt be chronic (contused testicle). He plays a good D. He's good for a line of .265 20HR 85RBI regularly with an OPS in the high .700s. In Fenway, maybe he's .275 25HR 90RBI with an OPS right around .800. He wont all of a sudden regain 2004 form by ballpark alone. But at the same time, his D plus his O makes him valuable as a bottom third of the order stick in the lineup.

 

What exactly are you trying to say?

 

When did i ever imply he would "Return to '04 form".

 

This is what i said:

 

A) If taken out of Safeco, Beltre could improve his numbers across the board, specially at Fenway or Citizens Bank.

 

B ) The Sox need defense, Lowell can't provide it, Beltre can.

 

Can you debate either of those points?

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I cannot. I think he'd be a better overall value than Lowell.

[Dipre]

No' date=' I cannot. I think he'd be a better overall value than Lowell.[/quote']

 

That's all i'm trying to convey here.

[jacksonianmarch]

No problem.

[Dojji]

Meh, I feel the difference is minor, but there's no way I can convey that to you in a way you'll actually agree with. personally, I think our next longerm 3B is Youks.

[Dipre]

Meh' date=' I feel the difference is minor, but there's no way I can convey that to you in a way you'll actually agree with. personally, I think our next longerm 3B is Youks.[/quote']

 

I would agree with you if the difference (defensively) between Beltre, Youkilis and Lowell wasn't so massive.

 

Defensively:

 

Beltre>>>>>>>>Youk>>>>>>>Lowell.

 

Offensively:

 

Youk>>>>>>>>Beltre= Lowell.

 

Notice the point?

[Dojji]

I noticed the point where that's dead wrong. Even dealing with a chronic hip injury, Lowell has been a better hitter for average and OBP than Beltre and their power has been roughly equal.

 

Also this is the first year where Lowell's D has even been bad. Even gimping around 3B for half the year in 2008 he still put up decent season numbers defensively. He might not have good range but Lowell is smart, aggressive and handsy, and he positions well -- a lot like Alex Gonzalez at short, who also doesn't have the greatest range but makes up for it well. With a full offseason to work on rehabbing that hip, I don't think it's totally insane to expect Lowell to regain at least some of his defense next year.

[Dipre]

I noticed the point where that's dead wrong. Even dealing with a chronic hip injury, Lowell has been a better hitter for average and OBP than Beltre and their power has been roughly equal.

 

Also this is the first year where Lowell's D has even been bad. Even gimping around 3B for half the year in 2008 he still put up decent season numbers defensively. He might not have good range but Lowell is smart, aggressive and handsy, and he positions well -- a lot like Alex Gonzalez at short, who also doesn't have the greatest range but makes up for it well.

 

How about this?

 

Why don't you put Lowell at Safeco field for 81 games and tell me if he's better offensively.

 

See, the problem with you is that you're failing to apply logic, you refuse to take things into context in order to defend an argument that is easily countered.

 

It's simple:

 

Adrian Beltre is a better overall value than Mike Lowell.

 

2009 RAR/WAR for Adrian Beltre (23.9, 2.4) Mike Lowell (11.9,1.2) they were both injured, lost a chunk of games, and with Beltre playing half his games as Safeco, his performance was still more valuable than Lowell's.

[Dojji]

You keep holding onto Safeco as your lifeline. You ahead and do that. Personally I think you're badly overstating the effects of park factors. Other than the really insane ones, like NYS on leftanded hitters, or pre-humdor Coors, the effects of stadium on offense tend to get lost in the noise.

 

It's amazing that every player you want to bring to the Sox tends to play in outer space with walls 500 feet from home plate.

[ORS]

So, what you are saying is, despite Beltre being the superior defender now, that doesn't count against Lowell because he was better in the past......this being in a discussion about who will be better....now. Really?

 

Then, to the other point, Dipre is saying the park will have some impact on the offensive numbers, making them roughly equivalent. He's right. Aside from his very good '07, Lowell has been about a 105 OPS+ hitter in Boston, and Beltre has a career 105 OPS+.

[Dipre]

You keep holding onto Safeco as your lifeline. You ahead and do that. Personally I think you're badly overstating the effects of park factors. Other than the really insane ones, like NYS on leftanded hitters, or pre-humdor Coors, the effects of stadium on offense tend to get lost in the noise.

 

It's amazing that every player you want to bring to the Sox tends to play in outer space with walls 500 feet from home plate. You know, it just kinda tickles my funnybone somehow.

 

Oh?

 

Allow me to further illustrate my point, since as usual, you run your mouth, but don't do the research to back it up, which tickles my MY funny bone..

 

2009 Park Factors Fenway and Safeco:

 

Safeco Field:

 

 

RUNS HR H 2B 3B BB

0.947 0.886 0.984 0.911 0.842 1.085

 

As you can see, Safeco field was below average in every category except BB's.

 

Fenway Park:

 

RUNS HR H 2B 3B BB

1.072 0.964 0.994 1.370 1.080 0.884

 

Fenway was comfortably a better hitter's park in every category except BB, even though it wasn't a "Clear hitter's park",but this doesn't include a split, of course, so the neutralizing factor is Fenway's difficulty for LHH.

 

HR/game is also a useful tool to asses a stadium's impact on hitters, since both home and away HR's are counted, a stadium that is comfortably below the league average could be considered a bad stadium for hitters.

 

Average AL stadium HR/Game: 2.24.

 

Fenway Park: 2.30: Just a bit above average.

 

Safeco Field: 1.93: Comfortably below average.

 

So you see, the only person clinging to a lifeline here (The lifeline of making unsubstantiated claims) is you.

 

When i say Safeco is hell on hitters, i've got the data to prove it, all you've got is your mouth and a hand full of air.

 

Again, save me the grief of having to prove you wrong and do some research before you make your claims.

 

Thanks.

[Gom]

Dipre...did you make up these numbers or did you actually research them? Can you quote a source? Just curious.

[BSN07]

Dipre...did you make up these numbers or did you actually research them? Can you quote a source? Just curious.

 

Nice attempt at turning another thread into a "Gom" bashing s*** storm...<_>

[Dipre]

Dipre...did you make up these numbers or did you actually research them? Can you quote a source? Just curious.

 

Now i shall, as usual, destroy your "credibility".

 

2009 park factors.

 

Hit tracker online stadium HR tracker.

 

See, unlike you, not only do i not make s*** up, but i also know what i'm talking about.

 

So shut your mouth, and know your role.

[BSN07]

Now i shall, as usual, destroy your "credibility".

 

2009 park factors.

 

Hit tracker online stadium HR tracker.

 

See, unlike you, not only do i not make s*** up, but i also know what i'm talking about.

 

So shut your mouth, and know your role.

 

[italstallianion]

And once again, Gom picks his head up from the molehill to namedrop himself into a thread, only to be hit with a mallet and return back to the slums of anonymity where he came from, until people forget about his shaming before he rises from the ashes sometime later.

[Dipre]

And once again' date=' Gom picks his head up from the molehill to namedrop himself into a thread, only to be hit with a mallet and return back to the slums of anonymity where he came from, until people forget about his shaming before he rises from the ashes sometime later.[/quote']

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Holy s***, this is one of the best posts i have read in a while.

[BSN07]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Holy s***, this is one of the best posts i have read in a while.

 

Co-signed

 

That s*** was funny

[bsox0407]

Co-signed

 

That s*** was funny

 

Tri-signed:lol::lol:

 

Hope he has fun in his cab.

[Gom]

Sorry Dipre....but I had to ask. See, you're the only one who has lied and claimed others have. That's all. A simple "no, I researched it" or "yes, you got me would have sufficed". I didn't claim you were lying, I was just asking. You're the only one here we can't be sure of.

 

That is all.

[Dojji]

OK, what, exactly, was that supposed to be?

[Dipre]

Sorry Dipre....but I had to ask. See, you're the only one who has lied and claimed others have. That's all. A simple "no, I researched it" or "yes, you got me would have sufficed". I didn't claim you were lying, I was just asking. You're the only one here we can't be sure of.

 

That is all.

 

Well half the board states otherwise (and i'm not claiming half the board PM'd me when it was only one guy trying to make fun of me because that would be lying, oh wait.....) so if i was you, i would check myself.

 

Again, you talking about credibility is like Bill Clinton talking about the benefits of being faithful while on a monogamous relationship: Complete and utter ********.