Boston Celtics 2009-2010 Thread

[SoxSport]

Bynum isn't anywhere close to the player Bosh is.

 

The Celtics look like an ageing team whose starters are getting too many minutes, and have nothing left to finish a game.

[Emmz]

"Sorry Honey"?

 

Are you talking to me?

 

No?

 

Knock it off and try to be civil. No one on this thread is an expert on Basketball, from what I've read.

 

Exactly.

 

Some people think it's okay to try and condescend to others based on their sex. It's pretty ridiculous. If you can't make an argument without using the words "honey" or "sweetheart" or "doll" or some condescending little bit like that in there, then just don't say it at all. It probably means that you have some sort of lack of substance, which is evident by the fact that nothing in his post pertains to what I said.

 

I said all roleplaying aside, Bosh is vastly superior to Bynum. Bosh is a SUPERSTAR. Bynum is SOLID. There's a massive difference in caliber between the two. If you're trying to put Bosh at Center, of course it's not going to work very well, about the same as trying to use Gasol at Center. Like I said, in a trade, the Raptors would not be benefitting by trading their franchise player for a guy who gets injured for about 40 games per year, and barely produces half of the offensive load that Bosh does.

 

If you can't see that, then I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Toronto has been a soft team lacking any formidable inside game since they've been in the league. Bosh is a subpar defender and offensively prefers the mid range jump shot. If they could trade Bosh, WHO THEY OTHERWISE ARE GOING TO LOSE THIS OFFSEASON FOR NOTHING, for one of the few quality true centers in the league today, and pair him with Bargnani, who moves to the 4 spot, why wouldn't they do that?

 

Bosh is a great player, and will be a huge prize for someone this summer. But the Raptors have playing him and Bargnani as their starting bigs for a few seasons now, resulting in them being probably one of the three worst inside teams in the league. Bynum is a good player who fits so so so much better with them. If salaries were no objection, I'd do that trade straight-up if I were the Raptors.

[Plumpamania]

Chris Bosh is far from a superstar IMHO. A big man who can't shoot past 15 feet consistently and has a bad post up game.

 

From my previous post, I'd like to state that Rondo is a much better fit for the Celtics than if Chris Paul was here.

 

Ideally the Raptors would love trade Bosh now since they have no shot at resigning him and getting Bynum to play with Bargnani would be exactly like a poor man's Perkins and Garnett.

 

The Celtics have played like old men and have had many injuries.

[Emmz]

Toronto has been a soft team lacking any formidable inside game since they've been in the league. Bosh is a subpar defender and offensively prefers the mid range jump shot. If they could trade Bosh, WHO THEY OTHERWISE ARE GOING TO LOSE THIS OFFSEASON FOR NOTHING, for one of the few quality true centers in the league today, and pair him with Bargnani, who moves to the 4 spot, why wouldn't they do that?

 

Bosh is a great player, and will be a huge prize for someone this summer. But the Raptors have playing him and Bargnani as their starting bigs for a few seasons now, resulting in them being probably one of the three worst inside teams in the league. Bynum is a good player who fits so so so much better with them. If salaries were no objection, I'd do that trade straight-up if I were the Raptors.

 

This is actually a really good point, about him going away in the offseason for some huge money.

 

He is a great offensive talent, IMO, the if the Knicks were to do the "two-star" deal, I think it would be in their best interest to go LeBron/Wade and Bosh, not LeBron and Wade. I think James and Wade would be two guys who are meant to be number one scorers trying to compete against each other. I don't think that Wade would like to be the second fiddle, whereas I could definitely see Bosh playing second fiddle.

[Emmz]

Chris Bosh is far from a superstar IMHO. A big man who can't shoot past 15 feet consistently and has a bad post up game.

 

From my previous post, I'd like to state that Rondo is a much better fit for the Celtics than if Chris Paul was here.

 

Ideally the Raptors would love trade Bosh now since they have no shot at resigning him and getting Bynum to play with Bargnani would be exactly like a poor man's Perkins and Garnett.

 

The Celtics have played like old men and have had many injuries.

 

I think you're really underrating Bosh's offensive talent. Chris Bosh is able to score about 23 points per game for a reason. He might not be an ideal inside scorer, but he gets it done. He'll give you 20+ per game pretty much every night.

 

He might not play great defense, but he does get lots of boards, which has to account for something.

 

And I agree with you that Rondo is a better fit in Boston than Paul. We already have three scorers, and a fourth probably would mean too many egos competing for points against one another, whereas Rondo is willing to pass first. In general, as I said before, Paul is vastly superior to one Rajon Rondo, in a similar fashion to Bosh's superiority over Andrew Bynum.

[YanksHater213]

Chris Bosh is far from a superstar IMHO. A big man who can't shoot past 15 feet consistently and has a bad post up game.

 

From my previous post, I'd like to state that Rondo is a much better fit for the Celtics than if Chris Paul was here.

 

Ideally the Raptors would love trade Bosh now since they have no shot at resigning him and getting Bynum to play with Bargnani would be exactly like a poor man's Perkins and Garnett.

 

The Celtics have played like old men and have had many injuries.

 

I agree with you that Bosh is far from a superstar, but I'm not sure what you're talking about with not shooting past 15 feet. His true strengths as an offensive player come from his ability to face up and hit a jump shot out to 18-20 feet (and he's more recently been able to extend that out to around the 3 point line) and use his athleticism to go through and past defenders while driving to the hoop.

 

Also your Bargnani/Bynum to Perkins/Garnett comparison is pretty awful. Bynum and Perkins are both pretty similar players, but Perkins excels defensively and is simply efficient offensively while Bynum excels offensively and is a guy you can built your offense around while providing slightly above average defense. Then Garnett and Bargnani are polar opposites. Garnett's a defensive minded guy while Bargnani doesn't play a lick of defense, and really doesn't have a solid position defensively. He's not strong enough to guard 5s, and he's not quick enough to guard 3s or 4s.

[Emmz]

I don't think Bynum's a guy you build your offense around. Like I said, his health is an issue, as he's not yet proven it not to be an issue, and offense? He averages 12-14 PPG. I don't see it at all.

 

You're basically taking a guy, who's pretty unproven for having played 5 years, and valuating him based on his potential and upside.

[YanksHater213]

I think you're really underrating Bosh's offensive talent. Chris Bosh is able to score about 23 points per game for a reason. He might not be an ideal inside scorer, but he gets it done. He'll give you 20+ per game pretty much every night.

 

He might not play great defense, but he does get lots of boards, which has to account for something.

 

And I agree with you that Rondo is a better fit in Boston than Paul. We already have three scorers, and a fourth probably would mean too many egos competing for points against one another, whereas Rondo is willing to pass first. In general, as I said before, Paul is vastly superior to one Rajon Rondo, in a similar fashion to Bosh's superiority over Andrew Bynum.

 

Bosh's offensive talent is awesome, but offense isn't everything. Look at Garnett in '07, he took a huge hit in his numbers across the board, but he upped his defense level a notch (which I thought was impossible) and won us a championship. Bosh is a very good and unique offensive player due to his inside/outside threat, but again his defense has been awful. Rebounds really don't mean much in terms of defense. He's an average man defender at best, which really is the most important part of defense. His rebound numbers are high, but you have to take into account that he's by far been the biggest and most athletic player on a team that has never had a standout rebounder since Bosh was drafted. He's pretty much pulling in boards by default right now. I'm not trying to take away from his rebounding skills, but put him on a team with bigs who can rebound and bang down low and I don't think he breaks 10 boards a game.

[YanksHater213]

I don't think Bynum's a guy you build your offense around. Like I said, his health is an issue, as he's not yet proven it not to be an issue, and offense? He averages 12-14 PPG. I don't see it at all.

 

You're basically taking a guy, who's pretty unproven for having played 5 years, and valuating him based on his potential and upside.

 

It's easy to look at the numbers and make assumptions.

 

He's only missed 2 games this year, and putting 15 points a game up while shooting an efficient 56% as a THIRD OPTION is very good. He's a guy you can build around because he commands a double team in the post when he touches the ball, and he's got a great repertoire of post moves for a kid who is only 22. He's only getting healthier and only getting better. You don't need to be LeBron James or Kobe Bryant to have an offense be built around you.

 

Like I've said before, Bosh is a guy who has pretty much hit his ceiling in terms of development - he is what he is. Bynum is a very good player right now who has the potential to become a 25/12 guy in the not so distant future.

[Emmz]

This is what I mean by when I say I think you're over-evaluating him based on potential. Once he proves he can handle a good 70 or so games per year, then I'll be convinced he's a full-season guy. He hasn't done that yet. And 56% is much easier when you're seeing fewer touches, and you score the bulk of your points in the paint. Shaq used to put up %'s like that as a number one guy, who was seeing a shitload of touches.

[Plumpamania]

I think you're really underrating Bosh's offensive talent. Chris Bosh is able to score about 23 points per game for a reason. He might not be an ideal inside scorer' date=' but he gets it done. He'll give you 20+ per game pretty much every night.[/quote']

 

Danny Granger can do 23 ppg, Nate Robinson did close to 20 ppg..when you're the only scoring option on a team you can do 20 ppg. Do you think Nate the Great gets 20 on a team where he can't hoist up 20 plus shots?

 

He might not play great defense, but he does get lots of boards, which has to account for something.

 

They do, if they are moreso on the offensive end, which his aren't. He's a DEF Reb pro.

 

And I agree with you that Rondo is a better fit in Boston than Paul. We already have three scorers, and a fourth probably would mean too many egos competing for points against one another, whereas Rondo is willing to pass first. In general, as I said before, Paul is vastly superior to one Rajon Rondo, in a similar fashion to Bosh's superiority over Andrew Bynum.

 

 

Three years ago, I'd agree with vastly superior, today, not so much.

[Plumpamania]

I agree with you that Bosh is far from a superstar, but I'm not sure what you're talking about with not shooting past 15 feet. His true strengths as an offensive player come from his ability to face up and hit a jump shot out to 18-20 feet (and he's more recently been able to extend that out to around the 3 point line) and use his athleticism to go through and past defenders while driving to the hoop.

 

Also your Bargnani/Bynum to Perkins/Garnett comparison is pretty awful. Bynum and Perkins are both pretty similar players, but Perkins excels defensively and is simply efficient offensively while Bynum excels offensively and is a guy you can built your offense around while providing slightly above average defense. Then Garnett and Bargnani are polar opposites. Garnett's a defensive minded guy while Bargnani doesn't play a lick of defense, and really doesn't have a solid position defensively. He's not strong enough to guard 5s, and he's not quick enough to guard 3s or 4s.

 

 

Bynum is a defensive strength, and I can easily see blocking 3 shots per game, he's steadily improving much like Perkins did. Remember Perkins didn't get good until Garnett came. And moreso I was comparing the offensive stand offs with Perkins/Garnett and Bynum/Bargnani. Bynum and Perkins work exclusively around the basket. Bargnani and Garnett love the mid range game and don't usually use any sort of low post offense.

[Plumpamania]

Bosh's offensive talent is awesome' date=' but offense isn't everything. Look at Garnett in '07, he took a huge hit in his numbers across the board, but he upped his defense level a notch (which I thought was impossible) and won us a championship. Bosh is a very good and unique offensive player due to his inside/outside threat, but again his defense has been awful. Rebounds really don't mean much in terms of defense. He's an average man defender at best, which really is the most important part of defense. His rebound numbers are high, but you have to take into account that he's by far been the biggest and most athletic player on a team that has never had a standout rebounder since Bosh was drafted. He's pretty much pulling in boards by default right now. I'm not trying to take away from his rebounding skills, but put him on a team with bigs who can rebound and bang down low and I don't think he breaks 10 boards a game.[/quote']

 

Put him even with a Perkins and he's not pulling down 10 rpg. What I'd love to see is what he averages even against Dirk Nowitski or something of that calibur in terms of rpg.

[YanksHater213]

Bynum is a defensive strength' date=' and I can easily see blocking 3 shots per game, he's steadily improving much like Perkins did. Remember Perkins didn't get good until Garnett came. And moreso I was comparing the offensive stand offs with Perkins/Garnett and Bynum/Bargnani. Bynum and Perkins work exclusively around the basket. Bargnani and Garnett love the mid range game and don't usually use any sort of low post offense.[/quote']

 

Fair, I get your point now.

[Emmz]

Danny Granger can do 23 ppg' date=' Nate Robinson did close to 20 ppg..when you're the only scoring option on a team you can do 20 ppg. Do you think Nate the Great gets 20 on a team where he can't hoist up 20 plus shots?[/quote']

 

FG% says Bosh also shoots around 50%, Granger does not. I think Chris Bosh could definitely average 20 points on a team with other scoring options. I think with the Lakers, he becomes their second option. In that scenario, yeah, his averages would go down definitely, because there are a few legit scorers on their starting five as it is. Question, on the Lakers, how many would you expect Bosh to score per game?

 

They do, if they are moreso on the offensive end, which his aren't. He's a DEF Reb pro.

 

10 rebounds/game is a good stat, regardless of how you want to spin it.

 

Three years ago, I'd agree with vastly superior, today, not so much.

 

Who, CP3 over Rondo, or Bosh over Bynum?

 

I think it's the case in both scenarios.

[Keeper]

Three years ago' date=' I'd agree with vastly superior, today, not so much.[/quote']

 

Defensively, they're about a wash now. Rondo has closed the gap there. But Rondo has no outside game whatsoever, lacks a consistent mid-range jumper, and he can't make free throws to save his life. As an all-around point guard, Rondo is easily in the Top 5. Maybe even Top 3. Paul is the best point guard in the game. And it's not even close. Deron Williams and Steve Nash are also elite, but they're completely offensive-minded.

[Emmz]

Defensively' date=' they're about a wash now. Rondo has closed the gap there. But Rondo has no outside game whatsoever, lacks a consistent mid-range jumper, and he can't make free throws to save his life. As an all-around point guard, Rondo is easily in the Top 5. Maybe even Top 3. Paul is the best point guard in the game. And it's not even close. Deron Williams and Steve Nash are also elite, but they're completely offensive-minded.[/quote']

 

Exactamundo.

 

It's one of those cases where the number one is immensely superior to the rest of the pack. Chris Paul is that guy. He's Rajon Rondo meets Deon Williams, with a little more sparkle.

[Spudboy]

The Celt's are doing their best to make it 4 in a row.

 

Jeepers.

[msubulldogs21]

http://bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1236549&position=1

 

Can we not do this? Please? Already the oldest team in the league...

[WhiskeyBreath]

Doesn't really matter either way. This season is done.

[YanksHater213]

Doesn't really matter either way. This season is done.

 

It's not done til they're knocked out of the playoffs.

 

I have a feeling that we're coasting right now, and it'd be better for us to finish in 4th than 2nd/3rd (we wouldn't have to play Atl/Orl until ECF). It's possible we're just that bad, but as of right now, I feel like we're coasting and trying to stay healthy.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If there's no rebounders out there, then fine. Anyone but Tony Allen.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It's not done til they're knocked out of the playoffs.

 

I have a feeling that we're coasting right now, and it'd be better for us to finish in 4th than 2nd/3rd (we wouldn't have to play Atl/Orl until ECF). It's possible we're just that bad, but as of right now, I feel like we're coasting and trying to stay healthy.

I sort of agree... I think they are taking it easy and banking on the whole 'regular season means nothing' idea, but they're pushing it. It's time to wake up. Hopefully the Nets game got that message across. Good luck winning anything when you're 4th seed in the playoffs. Especially when having to deal with Cleveland tiring you out in the 2nd round before you go up against Orlando or Atlanta.

[Spudboy]

Doesn't really matter either way. This season is done.

 

Yup. This team does not have it.

[YanksHater213]

The 06-07 Spurs went through a similar rough patch/identity crisis, and they won the title.

 

It's not over til it's over.

[WhiskeyBreath]

The 06-07 Spurs went through a similar rough patch/identity crisis, and they won the title.

 

It's not over til it's over.

 

Ok, but was Tim Duncan playing on one leg?

[Spudboy]

Celts are blowing out Charlotte.

 

What is up with those Bobcat unis? They are just plain fugly.

 

I almost did not recognize that they were the Charlotte Bobcats. Why do teams change uni designs so often? I know the common reasons . I just don't get it. Anyone with a marketing degree would wonder too, I believe. Keep a uniform for a while and establish a product identity. Even if your team sucks.

 

The NBA is weak in so many areas. Strange.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Yes they are.

 

I heard that now that Jordan is going to be controlling the Bobcats he is considering a name change so expect another different uniform haha.

[msubulldogs21]

Yes they are.

 

I heard that now that Jordan is going to be controlling the Bobcats he is considering a name change so expect another different uniform haha.

 

That is, if MJ can get off the golf course and pay a little attention to his team. That remains to be seen.