10/9 - ALDS GAME 2 BOS @ LAA

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

"And' date=' he wanted to play for the Yanks anyway."[/quote']

No, he wanted to play for the most money.

[Dojji]

call Ripley's. A Red Sox catcher just threw out a baserunner.

[SCM33]

Well, let the Matt Holliday sweepstakes begin.

[Dojji]

But Dojj' date=' you gotta admit the lineup and the pinch hitting moves smack of not hurting certain players' feelings. That needs to change in game 3.[/quote']

 

Frankly we've got about 5 hitters in the middle of our lineup (Drew, Papi, Lowell, youkilis, Bay) that are pretty interchangeable and one (Lowell) who probably would be in the same group if he played enough games. Putting people where they're comfortable is part of the manager's job IMHO.

[Dojji]

Well' date=' let the Matt Holliday sweepstakes begin.[/quote']

 

I want no part of Holliday. Bay has his flaws, but changing him out for Holliday isn't worth the effort, especially with the chance we wind up with neither.

[Dipre]

I want no part of Holliday. Bay has his flaws' date=' but changing him out for Holliday isn't worth the effort, especially with the chance we wind up with neither.[/quote']

 

I advise you stay away from the "Teixeira" posts from now on,

 

Just a thought.

[rhet]

I don't actually believe that. that's sour grapes.

 

What IS true though is that once Giambi hit free agency, the Yankees had a hole at 1B and the best available free agent 1B by a mile was Teixeira.

 

Beyond any gamesmanship with the Sox, the Steinbrenners genuinely wanted Teixeira themselves. Keeping him away from us represented what might be called a pleasant bonus.

 

Whatever the reason, it was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that Mark Teixeira was a MAJOR Yankee offseason priority and what's more, he SHOULD have been. It made too much sense to NYY to get Teixeira for me to have any real hope that they were going to let us beat them to the guy.

 

Sour grapes? Hardly.

 

The take home pay in Boston would have been at least as much as he got in NY. When he says he wanted NY all along, I believe him.

[SCM33]

I want no part of Holliday. Bay has his flaws' date=' but changing him out for Holliday isn't worth the effort, especially with the chance we wind up with neither.[/quote']

 

Ahh, yeah it is worth the effort. Bay will not be worth the pricetag he will demand. DH's shouldnt be paid the amount of money he will want.

[rhet]

yook

[Dojji]

I advise you stay away from the "Teixeira" posts from now on,

 

Just a thought.

 

This situation is by no means equivalent. To make room for Teixeira we would have had to make some subsequent moves (most likely, jettisoning Lowell). The position was already covered, we were looking for an upgrade from a strong fallback position.

 

With Holliday, the only way to get in on him is to let Bay walk. If the Yankees sign Bay and a wildcard third team (say the Tigers and their LF platoon) sign Holliday, we're screwed. Our fallback option in that situation is either Baldelli, Reddick, or a trade for an average corner outfielder. Not pleasant to contemplate by any means.

[Dipre]

Ahh' date=' yeah it is worth the effort. Bay will not be worth the pricetag he will demand. DH's shouldnt be paid the amount of money he will want.[/quote']

 

Even with the power numbers, i simply think Bay, as a hitter, is too vulnerable. I'd rather get Holliday and his superior speed and defense.

[SCM33]

This situation is by no means equivalent. To make room for Teixeira we would have had to make some subsequent moves (most likely, jettisoning Lowell). The position was already covered, we were looking for an upgrade from a strong fallback position.

 

With Holliday, the only way to get in on him is to let Bay walk. If the Yankees sign Bay and a wildcard third team (say the Tigers and their LF platoon) sign Holliday, we're screwed.

 

Ok, so what if the Yankees sign Holliday and Bay signs with a wildcard team? Your logic makes zero sense. Go after the better player and hopefully it works out for us.

[SCM33]

Even with the power numbers' date=' i simply think Bay, as a hitter, is too vulnerable. I'd rather get Holliday and his superior speed and defense.[/quote']

 

You are right. He is not a 3, 4 or even really 5 hitter. He is a 6 hitter with plus power for that lineup slot.

[Dipre]

You are right. He is not a 3' date=' 4 or even really 5 hitter. He is a 6 hitter with plus power for that lineup slot.[/quote']

 

K's too much and a lot of weak contact against upper-level pitching.

[Dojji]

Ok' date=' so what if the Yankees sign Holliday and Bay signs with a wildcard team? Your logic makes zero sense. Go after the better player and hopefully it works out for us.[/quote']

 

I must have made that less than clear. Your scenario is the one I want to avoid. that means concentrating on Bay, who we have a chance of being able to sign before the free agent posting period.

 

if you have to wait for free agency, then you're no worse off for pursuing Bay aggressively if he walks than you were if you ignored Bay and kept an eye on Holliday, and if you CAN sign Bay, I don't see how the opportunity to compete with a number of other teams for Holliday's services is worth turning down a solidly above average LF.

[SCM33]

I must have made that less than clear. Your scenario is the one I want to avoid. that means concentrating on Bay, who we have a chance of being able to sign before the free agent posting period.

 

if you have to wait for free agency, then you're no worse off for pursuing Bay aggressively if he walks than you were if you ignored Bay and kept an eye on Holliday, and if you CAN sign Bay, I don't see how the opportunity to compete with a number of other teams for Holliday's services is worth turning down a solidly above average LF.

 

Bay isnt signing any deal before the free agent posting period. This is Bays one and probably only opportunity to cash in. He will sign the biggest contract he can. He has no allegiances here.

[Dojji]

K's too much and a lot of weak contact against upper-level pitching.

 

I don't buy it. Upper level pitching dominates everyone. That's why it's upper level pitching.

[Dojji]

Bay isnt signing any deal before the free agent posting period.

 

Mike Lowell did.

 

If you have to offer Jason Bay a competitive deal to solidify left field and make it a nonproblem, then do it. Bay is a good enough hitter and LFer to keep a hold of.

[Dipre]

I don't buy it. Upper level pitching dominates everyone. That's why it's upper level pitching.

 

********.

 

Even though good pitching is more prone to dominance (of course) than good or average pitching, very good-elite hitters will still manage solid contact at an above average rate.

 

Bay's contact% is dramatically lower this year than any other year in his career, and he's been very prone to weak contact.

[SCM33]

Mike Lowell did.

 

If you have to offer Jason Bay a competitive deal to solidify left field and make it a nonproblem, then do it. Bay is a good enough hitter and LFer to keep a hold of.

 

Mike Lowell and Jason Bay are two completely different scenarios. This is Bays last opportunity to cash in after a career power year. You only think Bay will sign a deal here, because you really really want him to, and something inside you believes that the magic of Boston and Fenway Park will lure him in to signing the deal. He is just like everyone else, a greedy professional baseball player who will only look out for his own best interests. Its not a game/sport anymore......its a business, its a job.

[User Name]

Pathetic game, pathetic series. This season sucks ass.

[Dipre]

Mike Lowell and Jason Bay are two completely different scenarios. This is Bays last opportunity to cash in after a career power year. You only think Bay will sign a deal here' date=' because you really really want him to, and something inside you believes that the magic of Boston and Fenway Park will lure him in to signing the deal. He is just like everyone else, a greedy professional baseball player who will only look out for his own best interests. Its not a game/sport anymore......its a business, its a job.[/quote']

 

This.

[Dojji]

Mike Lowell and Jason Bay are two completely different scenarios. This is Bays last opportunity to cash in after a career power year. You only think Bay will sign a deal here' date=' because you really really want him to, and something inside you believes that the magic of Boston and Fenway Park will lure him in to signing the deal. He is just like everyone else, a greedy professional baseball player who will only look out for his own best interests. Its not a game/sport anymore......its a business, its a job.[/quote']

 

You're slightly missing the point.

 

It doesn't matter whether you think you can sign him, you still make the effort because it makes sense to make that effort.

 

You absolutely make the offer to Bay in earnest. You make him offers he should accept. If he turns them down until free agency, you offer arbitration and review your options. If your best option at that point is going full-bore after Holliday, do it. But Matsui and Damon will both potentially be FA's as well so you'll be matching wallets with the left-fielder-less Yankees, so bear that in mind.

 

what you absolutely do not do is IGNORE the chance to sign Bay before free agency JUST because you want Holliday.

[Spudboy]

Mike Lowell and Jason Bay are two completely different scenarios. This is Bays last opportunity to cash in after a career power year. You only think Bay will sign a deal here' date=' because you really really want him to, and something inside you believes that the magic of Boston and Fenway Park will lure him in to signing the deal. He is just like everyone else, a greedy professional baseball player who will only look out for his own best interests. Its not a game/sport anymore......its a business, its a job.[/quote']

 

This post makes sense to me.

 

Bay is gone.

 

Time to move on.

[Dojji]

This post makes sense to me.

 

Bay is gone.

 

Time to move on.

 

Then you lose nothing from going hard after the guy anyway, because the worst case scenario is the spot you wanted to start from.

[SCM33]

You're slightly missing the point.

 

It doesn't matter whether you think you can sign him, you still make the effort because it makes sense to make that effort.

 

You absolutely make the offer to Bay in earnest. You make him offers he should accept. If he turns them down until free agency, you offer arbitration and review your options. If your best option at that point is going full-bore after Holliday, do it. But Matsui and Damon will both potentially be FA's as well so you'll be matching wallets with the left-fielder-less Yankees, so bear that in mind.

 

what you absolutely do not do is IGNORE the chance to sign Bay before free agency JUST because you want Holliday.

 

I am not missing the point. I didnt say offer him nothing, I simply said he is not going to be worth the money he will eventually accept, which will not be an offer from Boston. You are missing the point, if it becomes a matter of money, and both players are asking for the bank, I go with Holliday. My decision about which LF I want is not affected by the Yankees and their LF situation. Go for Holliday, if you dont get him there are still options available.

 

I am so sick of people thinking that we need to sign players to offset/balance what the Yankees needs are/will be. Baseball is not won by going in to every offseason trying to out-do the Yankees in the FA market, if so....the Yankees would have won a few WS titles since 2000 as that was the Yankees team building philosophy during that period. Its about building the best team. Matt Holliday makes them a better team.

[Keeper]

f***, these first two games have been hard to watch.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Mike Lowell and Jason Bay are two completely different scenarios. This is Bays last opportunity to cash in after a career power year. You only think Bay will sign a deal here' date=' because you really really want him to, and something inside you believes that the magic of Boston and Fenway Park will lure him in to signing the deal. [b']He is just like everyone else, a greedy professional baseball player who will only look out for his own best interests.[/b] Its not a game/sport anymore......its a business, its a job.

 

And this makes him greedy?

[Dojji]

I am not missing the point. I didnt say offer him nothing' date=' I simply said he is not going to be worth the money he will eventually accept, which will not be an offer from Boston. [/quote']

 

Seems to be pointing that way, but a low probability of success all by itself is no reason not to try. even if he costs a bit Bay sure beats a hole in LF.

 

You are missing the point, if it becomes a matter of money, and both players are asking for the bank, I go with Holliday. My decision about which LF I want is not affected by the Yankees and their LF situation. Go for Holliday, if you dont get him there are still options available.

 

Not too many good ones. I think the best one left if Bay and Holliday both go is Hideki Matsui.

 

Try as I might I just can't quite picture that.

 

I am so sick of people thinking that we need to sign players to offset/balance what the Yankees needs are/will be. Baseball is not won by going in to every offseason trying to out-do the Yankees in the FA market, if so....the Yankees would have won a few WS titles since 2000 as that was the Yankees team building philosophy during that period. Its about building the best team. Matt Holliday makes them a better team.

 

You can be sick of them being there all you want to. It doesn't make them any less there. The Yankees are a reality of baseball. dealing with them and taking them seriously is something we have to do. And recognizing that no matter how much money we have to throw at a player, they have about half again as much? Also something you need to get used to.

 

Building the best team sometimes involves playing it safe when the downside is real enough and significant enough. In this case, I think you can make that argument.

[SCM33]

And this makes him greedy?

 

Im not saying I wouldnt do that same if I were not from Boston, but dont assume he will feel some sort of remorse about leaving Boston. I am sure he will make it sound like he wanted to stay here and all that, and that is what will irk me. Thats what will make him greedy. The fact he had to take 18M rather than 14M....bc 14M certainly wasn't good enough to support his family. Its a slap in the face to people who make 40,000 and scrape by, or those who dont have jobs at all