Dice-K

[Gom]

Care to elaborate?

 

I meant "as". In other words, both are done for the season.

[Dipre]

I meant "as". In other words' date=' both are done for the season.[/quote']

 

Meh.

 

I think Dice will pitch again to some extent this season.

[Spudboy]

Meh.

 

I think Dice will pitch again to some extent this season.

 

Care to elaborate champ?

[Dipre]

Care to elaborate champ?

 

Wang's injured.

 

He won't pitch anymore this year.

 

Dice is coming back early in September.

 

It's simple.

[Dojji]

Seems logical to me.

[RWTP24]

Wang's injured.

 

He won't pitch anymore this year.

 

Dice is coming back early in September.

 

It's simple.

 

Agreed.

[a700hitter]

Does Dice K pitch in AAA tonight?

[suns]

What is the timetable for dice-k to return?

[CrespoBlows]

Sept 8th, I believe.

[example1]

Dice-K has good trade value. Who care which writer wrote it or who has credibility.

 

You think Seattle wouldn't want Dice at 8m over, say, Carlos Silva (11.5 for two more years) or at least in ADDITION to Silva? You think a team like the Giants wouldn't want Dice-K for that price, given the success of Smoltz and Penny? The Dodgers? I think a lot of teams would be interested, and I don't need Cafardo to tell me that.

 

Yeah, he's had struggles this year, but not because he was injured per-se. He didn't do the traditional spring training, he threw his arm out in the WBC and the Sox couldn't tolerate crappy pitching and they shut him down.

 

He's not Peavy or Webb (at least, he's not Webb), but he's not Carlos Silva either. He has certainly held his own in the AL East over two seasons (not counting this year).

 

I think that the Red Sox would include Dice-K in a deal for Felix Hernandez and that deal would make a lot of sense for both teams, along with, like 5 or 6 other minor leaguers to Seattle. Let the "bash those who dream of Felix" posts commense, but Dice K would be a draw at Safeco and he definitely wouldn't hurt their rotation at his relatively cheap price.

[Dojji]

Good trade value he may have, but he's still an above average pitcher last time I checked, and THIS team has need of those too.

 

I don't think the minor league depth justifies dealing an asset like daisuke unless the return is larger than I think it will be. Just because he has SOME value doesn't mean we'll get anything immediately useful out of him, and we kind of need that to justify stripping our starting pitching depth by one healthy, above average, professional veteran starter. Even if he has some warts and flaws and wasn't quite worth what we paid for him, if he's still justifying his spot on the roster then he will be needed in Boston.

[a700hitter]

Dice K will start for Pawtucket on Friday.

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090902&content_id=6751816&vkey=news_t533&fext=.jsp&sid=t533

[a700hitter]

Dice-K has good trade value. Who care which writer wrote it or who has credibility.

 

You think Seattle wouldn't want Dice at 8m over, say, Carlos Silva (11.5 for two more years) or at least in ADDITION to Silva? You think a team like the Giants wouldn't want Dice-K for that price, given the success of Smoltz and Penny? The Dodgers? I think a lot of teams would be interested, and I don't need Cafardo to tell me that.

 

Yeah, he's had struggles this year, but not because he was injured per-se. He didn't do the traditional spring training, he threw his arm out in the WBC and the Sox couldn't tolerate crappy pitching and they shut him down.

 

He's not Peavy or Webb (at least, he's not Webb), but he's not Carlos Silva either. He has certainly held his own in the AL East over two seasons (not counting this year).

 

I think that the Red Sox would include Dice-K in a deal for Felix Hernandez and that deal would make a lot of sense for both teams, along with, like 5 or 6 other minor leaguers to Seattle. Let the "bash those who dream of Felix" posts commense, but Dice K would be a draw at Safeco and he definitely wouldn't hurt their rotation at his relatively cheap price.

How long are you going to beat this drum for King Felix? Can it wait until the off-season? Why would Seattle want damage goods in Dice K for a young up and coming stud. If they trade him at all, and I don't think that they will, they'll want the entire Farm System. They are not going to want some broken down two time WBC MVP.

[BSN07]

Dice-K has good trade value. Who care which writer wrote it or who has credibility.

 

You think Seattle wouldn't want Dice at 8m over, say, Carlos Silva (11.5 for two more years) or at least in ADDITION to Silva? You think a team like the Giants wouldn't want Dice-K for that price, given the success of Smoltz and Penny? The Dodgers? I think a lot of teams would be interested, and I don't need Cafardo to tell me that.

 

Yeah, he's had struggles this year, but not because he was injured per-se. He didn't do the traditional spring training, he threw his arm out in the WBC and the Sox couldn't tolerate crappy pitching and they shut him down.

 

He's not Peavy or Webb (at least, he's not Webb), but he's not Carlos Silva either. He has certainly held his own in the AL East over two seasons (not counting this year).

 

I think that the Red Sox would include Dice-K in a deal for Felix Hernandez and that deal would make a lot of sense for both teams, along with, like 5 or 6 other minor leaguers to Seattle. Let the "bash those who dream of Felix" posts commense, but Dice K would be a draw at Safeco and he definitely wouldn't hurt their rotation at his relatively cheap price.

 

I got crushed for this theory. Just a heads up:D

[jacksonianmarch]

DiceK has NO trade value right now. None. He's been injured with shoulder woes all yr long and he seems to have an attitude problem. He costs 8 mil and he has a no trade. If he doesnt come back in Sept strong and then barnstorm in the playoffs, the sox would be dealing him as a salary dump rather than as an active piece. Its like me saying we are gonna get something for Wang this offseason.

[BSN07]

DiceK has NO trade value right now. None. He's been injured with shoulder woes all yr long and he seems to have an attitude problem. He costs 8 mil and he has a no trade. If he doesnt come back in Sept strong and then barnstorm in the playoffs' date=' the sox would be dealing him as a salary dump rather than as an active piece. Its like me saying we are gonna get something for Wang this offseason.[/quote']

 

Wang probably has some value. In the NL for sure. Smoltz and Penny looked like human pinata's in the AL East, just like Wang. Now both are pitching strong.

 

St. Louis would be smart to move on him. You might not get a premiere package, but you could get something of value in return. Same goes for Dice-K. Especially if he is part of a deal that also includes prospects.

[a700hitter]

I agree with Jacko on this one. The only way Dice K moves in the off season would be if the Sox eat his salary.

[BSN07]

I agree with Jacko on this one. The only way Dice K moves in the off season would be if the Sox eat his salary.

 

This should have been the first clue you were wrong?

[Spudboy]

I agree with Jacko on this one. The only way Dice K moves in the off season would be if the Sox eat his salary.

 

So do I.

 

Dice has not done anything since last year. The only way he could be moved now is if the Sox were willing to swallow his contract and an Asian market (Seattle, San Francisco) had a need for a RHP for next year.

[example1]

How long are you going to beat this drum for King Felix? Can it wait until the off-season? Why would Seattle want damage goods in Dice K for a young up and coming stud. If they trade him at all' date=' and I don't think that they will, they'll want the entire Farm System. They are not going to want some broken down two time WBC MVP.[/quote']

 

They may get the entire farm system. Dice-K is a Japanese star, regardless of his current value, he is a big draw in Japan. The Mariners are owned by the owners of Nintendo. Their games are on in the mornings in Japan because ichiro is also a star. The Mariners' owners get this.

 

Dice-K is not expensive. The Mariners are paying both Carlos Silva and Miguel Bautista more than 8m per season and Dice-K is worth more than both of them combined.

 

Felix is getting into his arbitration years and will be a FA eventually. He will probably not sign with Seattle.

 

The Sox and Mariners discussed a deal that would have sent Adrian Gonzalez + to Seattle in exchange for Felix. Clearly Theo thinks there is SOME reason for those discussions. Of course, Theo is an idiot who spends lots of time exploring needless and silly trades for no reason, right?

 

For a team like the Mariners it makes a lot more sense than you are giving it credit for (dealing Felix for a King's ransom, that is... no pun intended).

 

Dice-K also makes sense for a team like Seattle. He's a veteran. He's cheap (whether you agree or not Jacko, 8m is what CC earns in 10 starts or so) and he's actually a commodity in that market.

 

 

When am I going to stop beating the drum for Felix? When the Sox get him. Theo has said that there are two players he would choose to start a franchise with. One of them is Miguel Cabrera, the other is Felix Hernandez. The Sox will need another pitcher and have the pieces to make it work, either this year or next.

 

I'm not crazy. I've said for a long time it feels like a perfect fit for me and I think the Sox would drop $20m-ish per-year to have him longterm.

 

 

I only brought it up this time because everyone is saying Dice-K has no value. I think that's BS. There are plenty of teams that would take him alone or as part of a larger deal. You are just jumping ship too early and underestimating the value of an 8m type A pitcher.

[Dojji]

you sound like I do sometimes when I'm trying to defend a pet theory that I know deep down is at least a little unreasonable.

[example1]

you sound like I do sometimes when I'm trying to defend a pet theory that I know deep down is at least a little unreasonable.

 

except that I have a track record of knowing what I'm talking about.

 

Which "theory" are you speaking of?

 

--We know the Red Sox want Felix

--There is reason to believe that Dice-K for $8m in this economy is an excellent value, regardless of what others here say.

 

Their combination is only one example of his potential value in a trade, it's not where I'm saying he'll go.

 

I provided a list of other teams who may take Dice-K off the Sox hands without them paying a dime in his salary. I believe the Dodgers, Giants and Mets are all options (especially with the recent success of AL --> NL pitchers).

[a700hitter]

When am I going to stop beating the drum for Felix? When the Sox get him. Theo has said that there are two players he would choose to start a franchise with. One of them is Miguel Cabrera, the other is Felix Hernandez. The Sox will need another pitcher and have the pieces to make it work, either this year or next.

Fine, but could you start beating the drum in the off season. Nothing is going to happen in the next two months except clinching a playoff spot and the play offs and world series. Could you give it a rest until the Hot Stove Season?

[Dojji]

except that I have a track record of knowing what I'm talking about.

 

Which "theory" are you speaking of?

 

--We know the Red Sox want Felix

--There is reason to believe that Dice-K for $8m in this economy is an excellent value, regardless of what others here say.

 

Their combination is only one example of his potential value in a trade, it's not where I'm saying he'll go.

 

I provided a list of other teams who may take Dice-K off the Sox hands without them paying a dime in his salary. I believe the Dodgers, Giants and Mets are all options (especially with the recent success of AL --> NL pitchers).

 

I'm sorry, we just don't have the pieces to go after Felix while he's still cost-controlled. We'd probably have a better shot at Ubaldo Jimenez.

[example1]

Fine' date=' but could you start beating the drum in the off season. Nothing is going to happen in the next two months except clinching a playoff spot and the play offs and world series. Could you give it a rest until the Hot Stove Season?[/quote']

 

You seem to have no problem with people who are discussing trading Matsuzaka next year, or resigning Bay or whatever else people want to write about. No, I will discuss potential offseason plans whenever I feel like it. You can choose to ignore it until the offseason if you wish.

 

 

We'd probably have a better shot at Ubaldo Jimenez.

 

I hope you didn't spend too long thinking this one up. The reason Jimenez would be more available is because he's not nearly as good.

[a700hitter]

You seem to have no problem with people who are discussing trading Matsuzaka next year' date=' or resigning Bay or whatever else people want to write about. No, I will discuss potential offseason plans whenever I feel like it. You can choose to [i']ignore[/i] it until the offseason if you wish.

You leftout: "and so there.'

[Dojji]

I hope you didn't spend too long thinking this one up. The reason Jimenez would be more available is because he's not nearly as good.

 

Yes, I was aware.

 

I have a hard time believing the Mariners can't buy out at least a couple years of free agency from Felix Hernandez. That makes the nearest possible non-insane acquisition of King Felix probably 4 years from now.

 

If you didn't like the Jimenez mention, we probably have a crack at Zack Greinke before Felix.

 

I would happily deal Expo, Kalish, Bard, Anderson, and Kelly for Greinke. Debatable whether that's enough from KC's perspective -- true aces are expensive.

[example1]

Yes, I was aware.

 

I have a hard time believing the Mariners can't buy out at least a couple years of free agency from Felix Hernandez. That makes the nearest possible non-insane acquisition of King Felix probably 4 years from now.

 

 

He will make a fair amount in arbitration next year and the year after, then he's a FA. Do you think the Mariners will pay him $18-20m for the final 6 years of his deal? Otherwise, he will be in the same spot contract-wise as Roy Halladay was this year by July, except that he's just entering his prime and he's more naturally gifted.

[Dojji]

Do you think the Mariners will pay him $18-20m for the final 6 years of his deal?

 

Sure, I think they will in fact do exactly that. True aces are all but impossible to come by. If you have the resources, spending them on keeping an ace is one of the best possible uses of those resources. Even cash strapped or confused teams do what it takes to hold onto them as long as they can. Seattle is a midcap team; they can afford to hold onto a few prime talents, and it would shock me more if they decided Felix WASN'T one of those.

 

Maybe if the old regime was still in place you could have acquired Felix Hernandez from them but I doubt the new GM fails to appreciate the unique talent that this guy is and I have confidence that Seattle WILL pay a high price to hold on to him.

 

Besides that, the Mariners have some bad money coming off the books in the next couple years, freeing up some cash to hold onto true assets. Unless there's some serious bad blood between King Felix and the Mariners, he will be a Mariner through 2012 at least IMHO.

[CrespoBlows]

except that I have a track record of knowing what I'm talking about.