Dice-K

[a700hitter]

I'm going to wear white after Labor Day too grandpa, I hope it doesn't strike your oh-so-politically-correct sensibilities the wrong way.

I didn't call you any name, but now you have called me a name. Making fun of the old is okay in your world? Will that be your rationalization? Liberals always start the name-calling while proclaiming their virtue.

[Dipre]

You shouldn't be encouraging me.

 

Apparently no i shouldn't.

[a700hitter]

Dice K gave up two HRs yesterday in AAA. It doesn't sound like he is going to be much help.

[example1]

Is Dice K a Seattle native? No' date=' he is not. Is he considered to be a Seattle hometown kid, because he is Japanese? You are digging a bigger hole. Stop shoveling. Try another rationalization.[/quote']

 

We can wait for others to jump in. One of us is right, the other is insane. We'll see if anyone else has opinions

 

My arguments:

 

1. Dice-K would have trade value to multiple teams because of his on field talent

2. Dice-K might have value particularly to Seattle because of his inherent value on the field and because he is extremely marketable in Japan, a country that their franchise has strong ties to.

3. If there is a deal for Felix, I could definitely see Dice-K being involved.

 

 

Your arguments:

 

1. Seattle having an interest in the Japanese market is racist.

2. If it isn't racist, it is some form of job discrimination

3. My mentioning Seattle's potential interest based on their involvement in Japan makes me a bigot.

 

Here's where you name called:

 

"I love to catch avowed self-righteous liberals being bigoted."

You called me self-righteous and you called me bigoted. Later you said

You have to get over the fact that even liberal doo-gooders like yourself can be racially insensitive at times or bigoted.

 

Bigotry isn't a benign thing. Wikipedia (and you can find it other places):

 

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who regards or treats members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.[1] Bigotry is the corresponding mindset or action.

 

The term bigot is often misused to pejoratively label those who merely oppose or disagree with the devotion of another. The correct use of the term, however, requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion."

 

By this definition (and all other definitions you will find) my statements do not fit the category. You are just plain wrong. I am preaching neither hatred nor intolerance. I did not say the Mariners should only hire Japanese players, nor did I say they would be better by doing so. I'm saying there is a benefit for them hiring a particular player, one of those benefits being that he will make them more money in a market they currently have a foothold in (whereas other teams do not).

 

I'm done arguing with you. I may have said an improper statement about your age, for that I apologize. I don't think it was inaccurate relative to the rest of the ages on this board, but I take it back.

 

Your refering to my post as racist and biggoted is something that definitely deserves an apology too. It was neither racist (about Japan, a country not a race) nor biggoted (it wasn't hateful or discriminatory).

 

I will wear white after labor day, however.

[example1]

I didn't call you any name' date=' but now you have called me a name. Making fun of the old is okay in your world? Will that be your rationalization? Liberals always start the name-calling while proclaiming their virtue.[/quote']

 

Way to let the prejudice fly. Labeling all people who have a certain political belief to be one way or another would fit under prejudging. I didn't bring up anything to do with your conservative beliefs, but everyone can see that this discussion is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bring politics (through "race") into a discussion that you don't like about Felix Hernandez. A weak, pathetic attempt by someone who is better than that.

 

I hope you have a very nice day.

[a700hitter]

Here's where you name called:

 

"I love to catch avowed self-righteous liberals being bigoted."

You called me self-righteous and you called me bigoted. Later you said

You have to get over the fact that even liberal doo-gooders like yourself can be racially insensitive at times or bigoted.

I never called you a bigot. An isolated act of racial insensitivity or bigotry doesn't make someone a bigot or racist, and I very clearly stated that I thought you certainly were not a racist. I did call you "self-righteous" and for that I apologize. I also called you a "do-gooder", but I don't think that is a bad thing. The world could use a few more do-gooders. I also called you a "liberal", but I noticed that you were not offended by that. I guess being a liberal is back in vogue.

[a700hitter]

Way to let the prejudice fly. Labeling all people who have a certain political belief to be one way or another would fit under prejudging. I didn't bring up anything to do with your conservative beliefs, but everyone can see that this discussion is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bring politics (through "race") into a discussion that you don't like about Felix Hernandez. A weak, pathetic attempt by someone who is better than that.

 

I hope you have a very nice day.

Don't go geting all pissy. Truth be told, I don't really disagree with you on this issue, but the law has evolved to an absurd state today. I work closely with employment lawyers, so I am very familiar with the state of the law. Unfortunately, it has evolved to its absurd state as the result of the efforts of liberal do-gooders. I would never call you a racist or bigot of any sort. I just couldn't resist pointing out that what you were suggesting could be actionable under the law, and in today's absurd legal system, good people like you can find themselves in court on the other side of such accusations. I enjoyed the back and forth, and I just wanted to have you help me illuminate the absurdity of the state of employment law. I sincerely apologize if I upset you. I wanted to ruffle your feathers a little and get a reaction, but I was trying to be clear that I was not impugning your character. Peace brother.

[Dipre]

You two seriously need to drop this.

[example1]

Don't go geting all pissy. Truth be told' date=' I don't really disagree with you on this issue, but the law has evolved to an absurd state today. I work closely with employment lawyers, so I am very familiar with the state of the law. Unfortunately, it has evolved to its absurd state as the result of the efforts of liberal do-gooders. I would never call you a racist or bigot of any sort. I just couldn't resist pointing out that what you were suggesting could be actionable under the law, and in today's absurd legal system, good people like you can find themselves in court on the other side of such accusations. I enjoyed the back and forth, and I just wanted to have you help me illuminate the absurdity of the state of employment law. I sincerely apologize if I upset you. I wanted to ruffle your feathers a little and get a reaction, but I was trying to be clear that I was not impugning your character. Peace brother.[/quote']

 

It's all good man. I take words like bigot and racist very strongly, even when mentioned in my general direction (and not at me directly).

 

I think an interesting discussion could be had about when that type of hiring practice does not apply. I think that with icons and media symbols (and to a lesser degree sports stars) that does not apply. If Nike wants to hire Usane Bolt to be a spokesman specifically for an ad campaign in Jamica I don't think that is illegal and I don't think anyone would argue it. Similarily, if the Sox want to sign a player because, among lots of other things (like actually being qualified to play baseball at a high level) he is from New England, then that makesesense. Adrian Gonzalez in San Diego? Sure, makes sense.

 

I appreciate your ability to turn this back into a non-prickly subject and end the conversation appropriately.

 

 

Also, I didn't take offense to "liberal" because I think that I actually am one. "Do-gooder implies a sens of derision or naivity that wasn't much appreciated, given that most people would probably see themselves as doing good in one way or another (even people who specifically don't support public programs because they enable people to 'live off of the system' see themselves as doing something good).

 

Alright, enough of that topic.

[SoxSport]

Unless he has some shoulder damage, he should come back OK very soon--maybe the next start. Wake pitched OK today, so with Buchholz and Dice-K, they should be OK. But Beckett has to get back to form if they are going to do anything in the playoffs. He has to be lights out.

[example1]

I'm not convinced that he will come back great this year. I think he still has plenty left in the tank for next year but I would bank on Buchholz being the better starter right now. In fact, I don't believe Dice will be much better than Smoltz or Penny would have been. If he comes back and is even average then that's a great win for the Sox down the stretch.

[Spudboy]

I'm not convinced that he will come back great this year. I think he still has plenty left in the tank for next year but I would bank on Buchholz being the better starter right now. In fact' date=' I don't believe Dice will be much better than Smoltz or Penny would have been. If he comes back and is even average then that's a great win for the Sox down the stretch.[/quote']

 

This post is realistic.

 

I hope there is no lingering animosity from all that has transpired in this thread.

 

Peace to all Talksox members.

[example1]

This post is realistic.

 

I hope there is no lingering animosity from all that has transpired in this thread.

 

Peace to all Talksox members.

 

a700 and I have gone at it numerous times. In a lot of ways we are polar opposites who see the world very differently. I hope that, to some degree, it is a model of how other people can have hard discussions without it getting too ugly.

 

Generally, one of us gets insulted by something the other says. We then spar for awhile about whether the offense was valid or not and then agree that we like each other enough to not let us say more than we should. We crack some jokes, put in a smiley face or two, and 5-pages later we either end the discussion or it goes in another direction. Par for the course. I always leave knowing that we will inevitably spar again soon.

[a700hitter]

This post is realistic.

 

I hope there is no lingering animosity from all that has transpired in this thread.

 

Peace to all Talksox members.

I missed Example when he went on hiatus from TalkSox, and i am glad that he has come back and stayed.

[SCM33]

a700 and I have gone at it numerous times. In a lot of ways we are polar opposites who see the world very differently. I hope that, to some degree, it is a model of how other people can have hard discussions without it getting too ugly.

 

Generally, one of us gets insulted by something the other says. We then spar for awhile about whether the offense was valid or not and then agree that we like each other enough to not let us say more than we should. We crack some jokes, put in a smiley face or two, and 5-pages later we either end the discussion or it goes in another direction. Par for the course. I always leave knowing that we will inevitably spar again soon.

 

I would like to think that most of here are the same way, here at talksox we are pretty vocal and stubborn, but at the end of the day, we are all here for the same reason.

[SoxSport]

My advice to posters is to stay on the thread subject, and never criticize a poster personally--just the post and the ideas. It's important to know the difference.

[Dipre]

Yeah but this thread brings the lulz.

 

Kudos to example and Clint.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but this thread brings the lulz.

 

Kudos to example and Clint.

There you go encouraging me again.

[Dipre]

There you go encouraging me again.

 

What else can i do?

 

This thread brought the lulz.

[Spudboy]

Soooooo...... Dice-K is aces in single A.

 

I'm so comforted with this knowledge.

[RWTP24]

Does anyone know if Dice-K will Start for the Sox next weds. or are they going to pitch a four man rotation here on out?

[Cocos Disciples]

Definitely not the four man rotation because we don't have any off days after Monday.

[RWTP24]

Oh really?? Damn, 22 games with out a day off. It's going to be a long last month.