Catch-All Papelbon Thread

[example1]

We need a catch-all Papelbon thread (searched 3 pages, couldn't find one). I wanted to ask specifically:

 

Where has Papelbon's splitter gone? Can anyone fill me in about some decision not to use it anymore?

 

Pitch f/x doesn't have a single recorded split in 2009:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5975&position=P&pitch=FS

 

or it says he's throwing it 10.3% of the time, exactly the same as his slider. F/X seems confused. It was his best secondary pitch and he's not using it... any ideas where it has gone?

[SCM33]

it seems hes been behind in a lot of counts and battling back. As closers go, they never want to be beat on a secondary pitch, maybe this is the reason we have not seen it much, because hes always falling behind in counts.

[TheKilo]

His mechanics are out of whack. His walk rate has more than doubled since last season.

 

I'm concerned about an arm injury.

[Dipre]

His mechanics are out of whack. His walk rate has more than doubled since last season.

 

I'm concerned about an arm injury.

 

I think he's just failing to repeat his delivery consistently.

 

It wouldn't be shocking, since his mechanics are quite high-maintenance.

[bostonule25]

it's because tek is catching him now when Cash did he threw more splitters

[Cocos Disciples]

^ Is that actually true?

[ms_sox]

There's been some articles where Pap said he's been changing his mechanics on purpose to try and ensure his long term longevity. ie, I don't think he has injury now, but he's looking to avoid potential injury by finding other ways to toss that aren't as hard on his arm.

 

Maybe whatever he's doing ... isn't working very well ...

[BoSox21]

yea, I saw an article about that. He said he altered his mechanics so his legs absorb more of the punishment of his delivery as opposed to his arm. Setting himself up for that big FA pay day....

[Dipre]

yea' date=' I saw an article about that. He said he altered his mechanics so his legs absorb more of the punishment of his delivery as opposed to his arm. Setting himself up for that big FA pay day....[/quote']

 

Or current season FAIL apparently.

[WhiskeyBreath]

His control is very sporadic. I don't know if it's injury, mechanics or what but if he doesn't get it back he can't be the insanely dominant closer that he can be.

[BSN07]

Anyone see the Sox dealing Paps in a blockbuster type deal? Hypothetically, what does everyone see the Sox getting in return?

 

I really like him, but we all know he's going to hit Free Agency within the next couple seasons. There could because for concern for his arm long term. Is he a great sell high candidate, or should the Sox hold onto him for 2 more years and watch him sign with the Yankees and the backlash that would ensue?

[ORS]

You have a real hard-on for trade proposal mental diarrhea, don't you?

[Rdsxmbnt]

papelbon for fielder

[BSN07]

You have a real hard-on for trade proposal mental diarrhea' date=' don't you?[/quote']

 

Yup I enjoy kicking around ideas. You learn a lot about what others on the board think. Or how they value certain people and why. If you don't like it, you don't have to participate.

[ORS]

But I am participating. My contribution is sharing the opinion that I think your endless trade suggestions are tiresome and stale. Or is it only participating if you play by your rules?

[example1]

It could be a godsend for the Sox that he was unwilling to get a medium sized extended payday because he wants Rivera money. He may be just stupid enough to screw himself over, unwilling to relinquish the candy bar to get his hand out of the vending machine.

[example1]

All this...

 

it seems hes been behind in a lot of counts and battling back. As closers go' date=' they never want to be beat on a secondary pitch, maybe this is the reason we have not seen it much, because hes always falling behind in counts.[/quote']

 

His mechanics are out of whack. His walk rate has more than doubled since last season.

 

I'm concerned about an arm injury.

 

I think he's just failing to repeat his delivery consistently.

 

It wouldn't be shocking, since his mechanics are quite high-maintenance.

 

it's because tek is catching him now when Cash did he threw more splitters

 

His control is very sporadic. I don't know if it's injury' date=' mechanics or what but if he doesn't get it back he can't be the insanely dominant closer that he can be.[/quote']

 

Anyone see the Sox dealing Paps in a blockbuster type deal? Hypothetically, what does everyone see the Sox getting in return?

 

I really like him, but we all know he's going to hit Free Agency within the next couple seasons. There could because for concern for his arm long term. Is he a great sell high candidate, or should the Sox hold onto him for 2 more years and watch him sign with the Yankees and the backlash that would ensue?

 

... and nobody really comments on the fact that he basically stopped throwing his splitter in the middle of 2008. That's a pretty big loss in terms of his 'stuff', as I'm sure people remember some of the games over the past few years where he was throwing splits that just fell off the table.

 

Did anyone think there was any reason for him to change from the FB/SPLIT combination that he had in 07 and the first part of 08? I thought, at the time, that those two pitches could be enough for him to be successful for the rest of his career (a la Rivera with the FB and the CUTTER).

 

Now, suddenly--and without much fanfare at all--he is throwing occasional sliders and hardly ever throwing a split.

 

We can talk mechanics all we want, but if Beckett suddenly stopped throwing his curve, or if Oki stopped throwing his okey-dokey changeup would we be discussing mechanics and control, or would we be discussing why he changed the pitches he offers?

 

I think there is something injury-related. Either the split was one of the reasons that his shoulder supposedly tired at the end of seasons, or they saw weakening and had him stop, or he decided to stop to get that big FA contract in a few years. I don't buy that it wasn't effective (I thought it was one of the best pitches in baseball), or that he was worried that Tek couldn't catch it (there is nothing to support that).

 

Overall, I would say that Papelbon without his splitter is a MUCH less valuable pitcher than he was with it. He is still an elite closer, but for how long none of us can be sure.

[jacksonianmarch]

The split is notoriously tough on the elbow, not the shoulder. But also, his splitter was getting batted around last season. It became an inconsistent pitch. I remember him giving up a homer to us on it and then I havent seen him throwing it again.

[BSN07]

I talked to my pitching coach yesterday. He said the the split finger is the single most damaging pitch a pitcher can throw. So maybe that could be a reason he stopped throwing it. If this is the case, then he better develop a second pitch or he falls back to the pack some as far as closers go.

[BSN07]

But I am participating. My contribution is sharing the opinion that I think your endless trade suggestions are tiresome and stale. Or is it only participating if you play by your rules?

 

Sorry that you feel this way. But I am who I am, and I do what I do. And if you don't know this by now, or haven't blocked me out yet, then I'm not sure what I can say.

 

Trade banter is one of my favorite thing to do pre TDL and off season. I'm sorry if it effects you in a negative way. I still contend that it is a great way to see how people really value players. So I'm sure I will continue to do so.

 

I guess I could start my post with a "spoiler" alert of sorts. A sort of "don't read this if your not into talking hypothetical trade scenario's" type of deal? Would that help? Or would it be better for you personally if I didn't post all together?

[Dojji]

I talked to my pitching coach yesterday. He said the the split finger is the single most damaging pitch a pitcher can throw. So maybe that could be a reason he stopped throwing it. If this is the case' date=' then he better develop a second pitch or he falls back to the pack some as far as closers go.[/quote']

 

He's got a nice little slider that he's shown a few times.

[BSN07]

He's got a nice little slider that he's shown a few times.

 

He needs to show it more often, or develop a change-up or something. Hitters are sitting on his FB. They don't respect his secondary pitches it seems.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

But I am participating. My contribution is sharing the opinion that I think your endless trade suggestions are tiresome and stale. Or is it only participating if you play by your rules?

lol come on ORS he's not hurting anyone.

[example1]

The broadcasters on YES during last night's game kept mentioning that they were "waiting for Papelbon to bring that splitter" after he threw a number of FBs.

 

Apparently they don't know that he doesn't throw it any more... I assume the Yankees know he doesn't.

 

His splitter lives on reputation alone.

[YAZMAN]

26IP, 23H, 13BB. He lives on the edge, like Righetti used to.

[BoSox21]

Papelbon threw at least one splitter last night, it was 91 MPH. I'm not positive who he threw it to though, I think it was the first pitch thrown to Posada

[Dojji]

"I felt pretty good physically," said Papelbon, who was nearly taken to the hospital for dehydration during Tuesday's game, in which he didn't pitch. "I just had to take my time between each pitch. I'm sure I got a handful of 'pacing the game' violations tonight, but it is what it is. I was just breathing a little heavy. The big thing was I made it through it. Obviously, yeah, I was sick, but I was able to bounce back and come help the ballclub."

 

Deserves mention that he pitched his save last night while dealing with the aftereffects of food poisoning.

[BoSox21]

amazing that he hit 98 on the gun

[a700hitter]

amazing that he hit 98 on the gun

I think the gun was a little juiced last night. Wang hit 96 on a pitch. There is no way that he throws that hard at this point. The gun was fast by at least 3 mph. The gun has been juiced for Yanks-Sox games this season. In the last series at yankee Stadium, the gun showed Lester hitting 99 and 101.

[Dojji]

That's disappointing in light of Bard's three-digit cheese last night. I suppose the worst that could have been was 97 though.