Papi

[stinge]

Papi will get a little better when other players around him start having their hits find holes. Right now we have 4 players in severe BABIP doldrums -- Tek' date=' Lowell, Ellsbury, Pedroia.[/quote']

 

I think Pedroia gets off to a slow start every season. As far as Varitek,, I don't think anyone was expecting too much form him after his slumping season last year. I think I heard talks of the red sox having their concerns about Ellsbury at the plate. It almost makes me wish they would've kept coco crisp around and give him another shot. Mike lowell may take some time to get started after being hurt last year.

 

But forget the hitting, their pitching isn't that great right now. That's more of a problem for me. Dice-k had one great year, and all of a sudden he's a stud. I'm still not 100% sold on this guy.

[stinge]

I am not sure since we have also lost Manny. He can still be a good player - but how would you account for that lost production? It is not like you have improved other offensive positions. To make it worse - the other teams in the division have improved their offense.

 

Other teams improving their offense doesn't bother me. It's the pitching that I'm always concerned about. The sports gurus been talking so much about how good and deep the sox rotation is this year. That's just on paper. Penny hasn't proved anythng yet. Smoltz has yet to even throw a pitch. Both of these guys coming off arm injuries. Concerns me a bit. sometimes I wish the sox would've spent some money and took a chance on AJ Burnett. He seems to be the best thing the Yankees got going for them right now. Him and Nick Swisher.

[stinge]

Maybe it's me' date=' but to me he looks completely different at the plate now. From 03-07 he had a much deeper squat in his stance and seemed to drive the ball with his lower body.....now he seems to be higher in his stance and trying to compensate with more upper-body through the swing.[/quote']

 

As a native new Yorker and living in the big apple, I don't get to see any red sox games except when they play the yanks. But form what I heard Peter Gamons from espn radio say yesterday, was tha Ortiz is trying to pull everything when he swings. And he's out in front of a lot of the change-up pitches.

[stinge]

I agree that Bay absolutely pales in comparison to Manny. Its not like we gave Manny away' date=' but Bay just isn't in the same universe.[/quote']

 

You can't replae greatness with greatness. Bay wasn't brought here to be or do what Manny does. Everyone talked about Bay not having the type of power Manny has. He still hits 28-30 homeruns a season. Is that not power? Manny made it clear he didn't want to be here. The problem with sports is everyone is always comparing and looking for the next version of someone. Who's the next Jordan? who's going to be the next Lebron? I can't wait until it's Derek Jeters time to hang it up. NY media is going to be all over the guy who replaces him.

[stinge]

Boston, and still did better in a Sox uniform in 08 than Bay did.

 

Manny, in his Dodger days - .489 OBP, .743 SLG%, 1.23 OPS. Annhilates Bay's numbers.

 

In his dodger days. That's just it. When Manny got to La, he was Mr. teamate of the year. All smiles, atitude change, hustling out ground balls! He's going to be on his best behavior because he knows he's pretty much playing for a contract for the rest of his life.

[Dipre]

I've seen double an triple posting......but sixtuple posting?

 

My hat goes off to you,sir, i salute you.......

 

 

On the subject of Papi, as long as he has that upright stance he's never gonna be able to drive the ball with it because he simply can't generate enough momentum from his time-step with his body type, he needs to bend the knees a little bit more, and stop cheating fastball, because bat-speed is not the issue, it's mechanics and pitch selection, since he's not used to seeing such an inordinate amount of breaking pitches (specially curveballs) early in the count.

 

IMHO, Papi gets it back before May and a lot of the people who were calling for his head will say "I knew the Big Papi of old would be back", and i will laugh at them.

[SCM33]

4/19/09

0-4, 2 K's

 

Season:

47 AB .170 AVG, .255 OB, .191 SLG, 0 HR...getting blown away by 89 MPH fastballs.

 

 

Starting to get nervous.

[a700hitter]

4/19/09

0-4, 2 K's

 

Season:

47 AB .170 AVG, .255 OB, .191 SLG, 0 HR...getting blown away by 89 MPH fastballs.

 

 

Starting to get nervous.

I was at the game, and I had a good seat on the third base side near home plate. He was early on most pitches or just under them. His bat didn't look slow at all. He seemed to be getting the bat through the zone quickly. I'm not worried about his bat speed.

[Binga46]

He's done. Time to trade some talent...lets get Hamilton!

[BSN07]

I was at the game' date=' and I had a good seat on the third base side near home plate. He was early on most pitches or just under them. His bat didn't look slow at all. He seemed to be getting the bat through the zone quickly. I'm not worried about his bat speed.[/quote']

 

I haven't seen him get on a ball so far this season. If his bat speed is ok, then he just not seeing it well and can't square it up. Can he bounce back? Yes. But there might be a cause for concern.

[ORS]

I was at the game' date=' and I had a good seat on the third base side near home plate. He was early on most pitches or just under them. His bat didn't look slow at all. He seemed to be getting the bat through the zone quickly. I'm not worried about his bat speed.[/quote']

I haven't had the chance to see him live, but this is what it looks like to me on the tube. His timing is way off. I don't know how long it takes him to find it, but he needs to play through it. The bench is not where you find your timing.

 

For everyone calling him toast, this is how he came back from the knee injury last year.

 

[table] |PA|AB|HR|K|BB|BA|OBP|SLG

Games 1-16|72|63|1|13|9|.111|.222|.159

Games 17-54|174|147|12|24|24|.313|.408|.626[/table]

 

Then the wrist thing popped up. Let's try a little patience.

[BSN07]

I don't think he's toast. But the fact he can time up an 87MPH FB isn't exactly comforting. I think he will start to warm up along with the weather.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't know if he's done for good, but right now he's become a huge liability in the three spot, and he needs to be moved down immediately.

[ORS]

I agree that he needs to be moved down in the order, but he does need to stay on the lineup card so he can work through this. In another month, if he's still rocking a Cesar Crespo line, then start thinking about other options (both internal and in trade).

[BSN07]

BMS could be claiming another great hitter:dunno:

 

 

He can still be a good hitter, but let's be honest, the elite Papi bat is well and gone, that just happens with age and injury.

 

Which leads me to believe this is Papis last season in Boston(speculating). I think the Sox will be looking for someone else to anchor this lineup at the TDL or next off season(Miggy perhaps).

 

The lineup should be changed to something like,

 

Pedroia/Drew

Drew/Pedroia

Youk/Bay

Papi

Bay/Youk

Lowell

Tek

Green

Ellsbury

[das11209]

Why not get Carter some bats and see how that works out? I wonder what else that kid has got to do to get into a line-up.

[BSN07]

Why not get Carter some bats and see how that works out? I wonder what else that kid has got to do to get into a line-up.

 

Not be behind David Ortiz on the depth chart. If anything Tito has proven he will ride someone into the ground before making a change LOL

[ORS]

BMS could be claiming another great hitter:dunno:

 

 

He can still be a good hitter, but let's be honest, the elite Papi bat is well and gone, that just happens with age and injury.

 

Which leads me to believe this is Papis last season in Boston(speculating). I think the Sox will be looking for someone else to anchor this lineup at the TDL or next off season(Miggy perhaps).

 

The lineup should be changed to something like,

 

Pedroia/Drew

Drew/Pedroia

Youk/Bay

Papi

Bay/Youk

Lowell

Tek

Green

Ellsbury

Define elite? If it's the 1.050 OPS player (actually 1.049) with 50+ bombs he was in 2006, yeah, but that standard is a bit extreme. If it's .950 with 35+, I think he can still produce at that level for another year or two beyond this one (provided he gets his timing back).

[das11209]

Not be behind David Ortiz on the depth chart. If anything Tito has proven he will ride someone into the ground before making a change LOL

 

If Tito can play Belhorne every day in 2005 - he will never sit out Ortiz. He also made sure he does not hurt the feelings of Hinske in 2006 by sitting him - if not for that we would probably still had Carlos Pena as a Red Sox and won't have to sign Lowell or try to sign Tex in the off-season.

 

I believe we are seeing a situation similar to Mo Vaugn - and we should trade him if we get the right return. But in order to sell him high - he needs to be playing every day and produce. So - you are right either way Carter will not see much playing time barring injuries.

[BoSox21]

He also made sure he does not hurt the feelings of Hinske in 2006 by sitting him - if not for that we would probably still had Carlos Pena as a Red Sox and won't have to sign Lowell or try to sign Tex in the off-season.

 

Did you know that Tampa actually cut Pena in 2007? The only reason he made it back to the team was cause Greg Norton got hurt. They fell ass-backwards into Pena's success so it's a little unfair to suggest Francona held down Pena out of loyalty to Eric Hinske.

[das11209]

Did you know that Tampa actually cut Pena in 2007? The only reason he made it back to the team was cause Greg Norton got hurt. They fell ass-backwards into Pena's success so it's a little unfair to suggest Francona held down Pena out of loyalty to Eric Hinske.

 

I know that as well as I know the Yankess missed out on him as well. The point was - we hurt because Tito is more loyal to the individual players than the team and the fans. Let me know if you think otherwise.

[BSN07]

Define elite? If it's the 1.050 OPS player (actually 1.049) with 50+ bombs he was in 2006' date=' yeah, but that standard is a bit extreme. If it's[b'] .950 with 35+[/b], I think he can still produce at that level for another year or two beyond this one (provided he gets his timing back).

 

Yes his 2006 I would consider an elite level. .950 OPS and 35HR+ I would consider upper echelon. I don't think Ortiz has that left in him. I would consider his ceiling to be 30HR's, .8-900 OPS.

 

But I don't have a crystal ball, and I'll admit there is always the chance he catches lightning in a bottle and puts up 1 or 2 more monster years.

 

 

But I have also excepted one of his biggest comparisons is Mo Vaughn,

 

If you look at the bottom of Ortiz's baseball-reference page, you see some ominous career projections for Ortiz's twilight years. What do the fifth-most similar batter to Ortiz, the third-most similar batter through age 32, and Ortiz's most similar counterpart at ages 25, 29, and 30 have in common?

 

They're all Mo Vaughn

 

his future has a lot of ? marks.

[BoSox21]

I know that as well as I know the Yankess missed out on him as well. The point was - we hurt because Tito is more loyal to the individual players than the team and the fans. Let me know if you think otherwise.

 

It depends, he stuck with Pedroia at the beginning of 2007 rather than go full-time to Alex Cora. History suggests Ortiz will come around so I don't think he should be benched.

[das11209]

History suggests Ortiz will come around so I don't think he should be benched.

 

Agreed - he should not be benched for the reasons we discussed before. I do think that we should trade him if someone gives us the right/younger package because Ortiz IMO is certainly on a decline phase. From my past experience - Theo will not hesitate to pull the trigger to replace an aging slugger.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

BMS could be claiming another great hitter:dunno:

 

 

He can still be a good hitter, but let's be honest, the elite Papi bat is well and gone, that just happens with age and injury.

 

Which leads me to believe this is Papis last season in Boston(speculating). I think the Sox will be looking for someone else to anchor this lineup at the TDL or next off season(Miggy perhaps).

 

The lineup should be changed to something like,

 

Pedroia/Drew

Drew/Pedroia

Youk/Bay

Papi

Bay/Youk

Lowell

Tek

Green

Ellsbury

Hit Pedroia third.

[SCM33]

Anyone opposed to Carter getting more AB's while Ortiz tries to figure things out? Hes looking more and more like toast each day. He really has been pretty brutal. Could Carter be this bad?

[a700hitter]

Anyone opposed to Carter getting more AB's while Ortiz tries to figure things out? Hes looking more and more like toast each day. He really has been pretty brutal. Could Carter be this bad?

He looked better today than he has in a while. He battled ineach of his last 2 ABs and did n't seem out of sync. He could be close to snapping out of it.

[Jasonbay44]

Well Carter is in Triple-A so wouldn't it be Jeff Bailey over Ortiz? Ill pass having Carter or Bailey start.

[ms_sox]

I think Ortiz should be moved down in the order, but not yet removed. I think he's on the decline, but I'd like to give him more time before completely putting him to pasture. Switch him with Bay or Drew or something.

 

Don't move Youk tho, it might jinx him. *wink

[SCM33]

Well Carter is in Triple-A so wouldn't it be Jeff Bailey over Ortiz? Ill pass having Carter or Bailey start.

 

Well, yeah....your point makes total sense. Im sure Carter couldnt hit.190 with zero power........oh wait, No I think Carter could do just as well being a black hole in the middle of the lineup which Ortiz has occupied all year long. Anything more than a black hole would be better than Ortiz at this point.