Reasons for Optimism

[Dojji]

How should we have upgraded the offense? I don't think signing Teixeira alone would have fixed what's broken here. Teixeira has been cold for 8 game stretches too.

[das11209]

How should we have upgraded the offense? I don't think signing Teixeira alone would have fixed what's broken here. Teixeira has been cold for 8 game stretches too.

 

You are right - that alone will not have fixed it but that and getting a good catcher would have been a start.

 

The first step to get a solution is to recognize that there is a problem - I think The Red Sox have recognized it a little too late. They do have the money and resources to fix it - but the problems are too big to fix it on the fly and get to the playoffs this year. Again - the Yankees and even Tampa have improved while we have not - and that might be a problem at least in short term.

[Dojji]

What good catcher should they have gotten, and what would you have paid? I want to push you off the banal generalities into specifics so you realize that what you're proposing really isn't as easy as you're making it sound.

[jacksonianmarch]

Its 8 games, you f***ing moron.

 

 

This beginning stretch is the farthest thing from a big deal.

 

Tell me where I was wrong in my post.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Tell me where I was wrong in my post.

Nice try. All your dizzying intellectual analysis is correct, yet you forget that its 8 games into a 162 game schedule, and our schedule out of the break has been very tough. Two of the pitchers we faced in the Rays series have a very good history against us, the Angels are a good team, and we have a less than amazing history playing the A's in Oakland.

 

 

In short, the team's bad numbers in the early going are pretty much meaningless.

[diony]

In short, the team's bad numbers in the early going are pretty much meaningless.

 

Those six losses are not meaningless.

[TheKilo]

Cooked not = cold. All we know at this point is that the bats are cold.

 

If you want to play defeatist I guess you have that right, but you're sounding like one of those ridiculous knee-jerk specialists that populate places like NYYFans.

 

It's not defeatist.

 

Varitek was cooked at the end of last season and after his few bright spots in the TB series has reverted back to black hole status.

 

Mike Lowell is coming off a serious hip injury and does not look right - he can't drive the ball let alone elevate it.

 

Big Papi is dead. David Ortiz continues to struggle. Last night is a shining example - he is late on an 89 MPH fastball from Russ Springer in the 9th and then pops out on an 83 MPH cookie right down Broadway from Ziegler in the 10th.

 

For the record, yes we have not played well, but I'd like to bring up two points.

 

First, is that we haven't really been out of any games either. Seriously, it is a good sign we have yet to be blown out. Means that only a couple more things need to go right before we start winning again (as long as nothing else goes wrong of course)

 

Depends on your definition of "blown out". The Sox have two lost two games by 5+ runs, I call that getting blown out.

 

They do have three one run losses, and maybe that's your point, but don't say we haven't been blown out.

 

Second, we've had a fairly nasty schedule, following up the Rays series with two road series on the West Coast, one against the Western division winner, another against a team that always shuts us down at their place. That's a little rough on anyone and our record in that stretch of games is hardly representative.

 

Pretty lame excuse - the Rays series was at home (and if the Sox have any dreams of winning anything this season they need to win series in Fenway nearly all the time) and we had our best starters lined up.

 

The Angels are not the same team from last season, in fact they are worse due to the loss of Teixeira and the lack of Lackey, Santana, or Escobar in their rotation.

 

The A's are not a very good team - and again, with Lester and DiceK against Dallas Braden and Dana Eveland, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect one out of two.

 

Also, we've had stretches as bad as this game in every season we've ever played. It's just bad luck for appearance's sake that we're having this one right at the start of the season instead of having the decency to give guys something close to their career average numbers before plunging them into a slump.

 

Again, coming out of ST (where everyone except Lowrie was presumed healthy) and having your best pitchers lined up makes a 2-6 start pretty much inexcusable no matter who you are playing.

[TheKilo]

Tell me where I was wrong in my post.

 

You're not wrong.

 

You're queer bait whose sole purpose of visiting this board is to troll.

 

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[TheKilo]

TheKilo - did you not kill me for saying the same thing in the other thread.

 

I just want to know if you changed your mind since.

 

This offense is going to struggle all year and it's up to Varitek, Lowell, Ellsbury, and Ortiz to prove me wrong.

 

i think Bay, Drew, Youk, and Pedroia will be fine.

 

The reason I'm saying this is the margin for error this season is razor thin compared to previous years', and it is frustrating to watch a team play uninspired baseball out of the chute.

 

They look old.

[TheKilo]

How should we have upgraded the offense? I don't think signing Teixeira alone would have fixed what's broken here. Teixeira has been cold for 8 game stretches too.

 

Going forward, having Teixeira's bat in the lineup over Lowell's is a significant improvement and really can't be refuted otherwise.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Those six losses are not meaningless.

How many times must I say it? Our schedule out of the gate has been extremely tough, we opened against the AL champions, and the two pitchers we lost to (Kazmir and Garza) have an excellent history against us. Then we embarked on an early trip to the West Coast, and are playing subpar ball out there, due to facing a perenially good team (Angels) and a team that we are historically horrible against on the road (A's), in their houses. Taking those facts into consideration, these losses are little cause for concern.

 

 

Does that make sense to you? We will forget all about these losses in June and July.

[das11209]

What good catcher should they have gotten' date=' and what would you have paid? I want to push you off the banal generalities into specifics so you realize that what you're proposing really isn't as easy as you're making it sound.[/quote']

 

I never said it will be easy at all - specially if you are fighting with a team with infinite payroll like the Yankees. All I am saying is that it is time to recognise our weaknesses and try to fix it. Empty rhetorics and wishing for the best scenario is not going to get it done.

[BoSox21]

They tried to fix it. They tried to get Montero but the DBacks wanted Bowden. That's why Varitek was signed at the 11th hour. There's probably more of a premium on catching talent than there is pitching these days so unless you're cultivating your own catching talent, you're pretty much f***ed.

[Gom]

You're not wrong.

 

You're queer bait whose sole purpose of visiting this board is to troll.

 

Tell me where I'm wrong.

 

Dude...you're on a roll. I'm loving your posts these days.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Dude...you're on a roll. I'm loving your posts these days.

Truth, Kilo is pwning.

[jacksonianmarch]

The question is, Dojji, would you put your eggs in Tex's basket for 09 or Lowell's? One is in his prime with a history of durability and a history of consistent, superior performance and the other is an older player with a history of prior chemotherapy (it does take a long term toll on your body btw), current injury and concern for declining performance from a yr ago.

[riverside sluggers]

They tried to fix it. They tried to get Montero but the DBacks wanted Bowden. That's why Varitek was signed at the 11th hour. There's probably more of a premium on catching talent than there is pitching these days so unless you're cultivating your own catching talent' date=' you're pretty much f***ed.[/quote']

 

Also multiple attempts to get Salty. Texas wouldnt budge, they want Clay

[ORS]

Empty rhetorics and wishing for the best scenario is not going to get it done.

This is exactly what he just asked you to stop doing, empty rhetoric. You are big on not supporting the general complaints you make and failing to specify what you would have done differently to avoid that complaint from happening.

 

No, wishing the solution would present itself is not ideal, but empty complaints don't do a whole lot either.

[BoSox21]

The question is' date=' Dojji, would you put your eggs in Tex's basket for 09 or Lowell's? One is in his prime with a history of durability and a history of consistent, superior performance and the other is an older player with a history of prior chemotherapy (it does take a long term toll on your body btw), current injury and concern for declining performance from a yr ago.[/quote']

 

Are you somehow under the impression that the Sox FO chose Lowell over Teixeira?

[jacksonianmarch]

No, not at all.

[riverside sluggers]

upcoming 4 game series against the O's at Fenway. Sox have had clear ownage of them in the past couple years. I do believe they will win at least 2

[Gom]

upcoming 4 game series against the O's at Fenway. Sox have had clear ownage of them in the past couple years. I do believe they will win at least 2

 

Wow...how the mighty have fallen. Calling for a split at home against the O's.

[yeszir]

Wow...how the mighty have fallen. Calling for a split at home against the O's.

 

He probably thought it was a 3 game series and you knew that

[TheKilo]

Dude...you're on a roll. I'm loving your posts these days.

 

Truth' date=' Kilo is pwning.[/quote']

 

*Points to tagline*

 

I get results.

[BoSox21]

*Points to tagline*

 

I get results.

 

 

well done

[Dojji]

I never said it will be easy at all - specially if you are fighting with a team with infinite payroll like the Yankees. All I am saying is that it is time to recognise our weaknesses and try to fix it. Empty rhetorics and wishing for the best scenario is not going to get it done.

 

Neither is flinging generalities and woulda-coulda-shoulda around. Are you honestly trying to tell me that Theo didn't try to improve the offense in the offseason?

 

Your point about payroll is pivotal in the discussion of the Teixeira question. New York was going to match or exceed any price we offered for Teixeira and Boras was going to make sure they got the chance. His job is to get his client as much money as possible for his client, and that means keeping New York in the bidding as long as possible. How ever much you might not want to hear it, there was no way Steinbrenner was going to let Teixeira go to Boston without turning down more money than we were offering to come here. Teixeira has little reason to love the Red Sox that much.

 

As for catchers, we had two catchers who looked pretty big league ready last year with the upside of league average backstops. Either Brown or Kottaras has the ability to be serviceable big-league catchers with a few warts and a lot of good points, and on a lot of teams both would be in the big leagues right now.

 

I'm not convinced Montero is that much of an upgrade over either of those two, and certainly the upgrade isn't worth Bowden unless the return puts us over some kind of threshold that gains us a significant number of wins. And once Laird went to Detroit, Texas was under no obligation, nor did it have any particularly pressing need, to trade anyone a catcher, as evidenced by the fact that they did not.

 

I just don't see where this supposed drastic improvement in the Boston lineup that we passed up on last year was supposed to come from.

[Dojji]

The fact that this team seems to have just hit bottom and started bouncing back up is a reason for optimism.

 

What a performance by Tim Wakefield.

[Dipre]

Are you somehow under the impression that the Sox FO chose Lowell over Teixeira?

 

That is a perfect question, in my opinion.

 

No' date=' not at all.[/quote']

 

Then shut the f*** up, you yankee -loving knobgobbler.

[BoSox21]

Reason: The last 5 games

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If we beat the s*** out of the Twins, then things will really be cookin.