Everybody Else Gamethread v. 2009

[TheKilo]

Giants one out away from getting RJ his 300th win

 

Wilson K's Nieves, he gets it

[Cocos Disciples]

Good for RJ.

[redsoxrules]

this will be the last 300 game winner for a long time

[Spudboy]

Good for RJ.

 

Ha ha ha ha! Johnson has always been an ass. 6'10" and bringin' the heat. Big deal. He was dominant 8-10 years ago but has been below average to average in recent years. 300 wins is a big deal nowadays. Congrats to him for milking it for long enough.

 

I'd take Pedro over him right now.

[Cocos Disciples]

You'd take Pedro over him right now?

[Spudboy]

You'd take Pedro over him right now?

 

Yes I would. Even with Pedro's recent physical problems, I believe he has much more heart and desire. And, I think he is smarter. Neither player has their best stuff at this stage of their careers. That's why I'd give the ball to Pedro. More desire and character. Both have lousy hair, by the way.

 

I feel I have to back-up what I said. I don't have numbers to help me here. Just my objective assessment based on what I've seen of both. Johnson has had the advantage of physical superiority, but Perdro has demonstrated an ability to compete AND dominate with far less physical strength (smaller and slight of build). Just watching Pedro's efforts you could tell that he was more motivated to excel than Johnson. Heart can't be assessed by some Sabermetric.

 

That's what I think, anyway.

[Cocos Disciples]

Definitely RJ for me at this point. Pedro sucked in 2008 and basically isn't even an active pitcher anymore. Johnson actually had some pretty solid numbers last year.

[MANNYHOF24]

Pedro over Johnson? Please justify that to me rationally.

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah, and he's still missing about a bat per inning.

 

Hard to say Pedro has the "desire" when he hasn't offered to play for the minimum, and is still holding out for a Smoltz deal.

[Spudboy]

I can't make a "rational" argument here. Pedro appears done, and yes, he won't take a minimum deal.

I saw him pitch in the WBC and figured he was still able to play in the majors. I watched him dominate for so long and during the same time Johnson seemed to be so average. Johnson is just hanging on. Pedro could probably do just as well and I believe (based on what I've seen of him lately) better.

[Spudboy]

Definitely RJ for me at this point. Pedro sucked in 2008 and basically isn't even an active pitcher anymore. Johnson actually had some pretty solid numbers last year.

 

I'm not aware of his numbers last year. What were his solid numbers? How about the last four years?

[Cocos Disciples]

I watched him dominate for so long and during the same time Johnson seemed to be so average.

 

Let's look at 1997-2000, Pedro's prime:

 

Martinez: 77-25, 2.16 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 11.5 K/9

Johnson: 75-31, 2.68 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 12.3 K/9

 

Pedro's numbers are better, but RJ was definitely not average--probably the 2nd best pitcher in the bigs in this time.

 

I'm not aware of his numbers last year. What were his solid numbers? How about the last four years?

 

2008: 11-10, 3.91 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.5 K/9

2005-2008: 53-36, 4.31 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 8.5 K/9.

[Spudboy]

Let's look at 1997-2000, Pedro's prime:

 

Martinez: 77-25, 2.16 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 11.5 K/9

Johnson: 75-31, 2.68 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 12.3 K/9

 

Pedro's numbers are better, but RJ was definitely not average--probably the 2nd best pitcher in the bigs in this time.

 

 

 

2008: 11-10, 3.91 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.5 K/9

2005-2008: 53-36, 4.31 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 8.5 K/9.

[Spudboy]

I'm sure you can prove me wrong here. I SHOULD have said, Johnson's appeared average pitching against the Sox. That is all I based my comments on. Maybe you're right. I still think he is nothing special (other than 300 wins and a LONG career). And he has been nothing special in the last half decade.

[Cocos Disciples]

You're right about that. Against the Sox he has a 4.42 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 2.41 K/BB.

[BoSox21]

Greinke's getting lit up tonight. 6 ER in 3 IP

[redsoxrules]

Greinke's getting lit up tonight. 6 ER in 3 IP

 

he had gone over 110 innings without allowing a HR , that's pretty impressive

[Cocos Disciples]

Thought this was the most appropriate thread for this, but...what the f*** happened to Delmon Young? His WARP is at the point right now where it would be as valuable for Minnesota to replace him with a league average player as it would to replace that league average player with Justin Upton. They can't send him back to AAA without putting him on waivers (where he would be claimed), so he's stuck in the show.

 

His line is .231/.272/.265 right now, which is probably the worst line in the majors right now, even worse than Ortiz. His K rate almost doubled this year from his career line (35%), he doesn't walk, his BABIP is .347, so he's actually been lucky so far. The Twins are in a pickle here.

[msubulldogs21]

Thought this was the most appropriate thread for this, but...what the f*** happened to Delmon Young? His WARP is at the point right now where it would be as valuable for Minnesota to replace him with a league average player as it would to replace that league average player with Justin Upton. They can't send him back to AAA without putting him on waivers (where he would be claimed), so he's stuck in the show.

 

His line is .231/.272/.265 right now, which is probably the worst line in the majors right now, even worse than Ortiz. His K rate almost doubled this year from his career line (35%), he doesn't walk, his BABIP is .347, so he's actually been lucky so far. The Twins are in a pickle here.

 

Yeah, not a good situation for the Twins with Young. If you think about it, they really have gotten jacked in some trades over the last few years. Delmon Young for Garza and Bartlett (ouch), the Santana trade not turning out so well, and there's at least one or two more that are currently slipping my mind. Someone help me out here.

[Cocos Disciples]

On the bright side they did have the Nathan/Liriano trade. But back to the Young situation, one thing that really baffles me is his resistance to the Twins staff. From what I've read, they're trying really hard to work with him on his problems (of course, they basically have to), and he refuses any help. Part of it may be his mother's death, as his OPS is in the .300s since that happened, but it's not like he was playing well before that.

[Cocos Disciples]

Anyone watching the Dodgers-Phils? Juan Pierre's pretty lucky there...tying run on 2nd with 2 outs, someone hits a pop up and he assumes it's out of play, and it just barely lands foul. Could have been caught, also could have tied the game.

[YazsTripleCrown]

Andre Ethier FTW X2

[Cocos Disciples]

Halladay got win #10 today. He's well on his way to a second straight 20 win year.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Litsch is getting TJ.

[ms_sox]

The Oakland vs. San Fran series is interesting to me personally. Not enough to watch much of it (and Oakland's been sucking anyway) but still interesting. Maybe because it always reminds me of the '89 quake.

 

Battle(s) of the Bay...it sounds more fun than it usually is.

[MDF3530]

Game 1 of the Cubs-White Sox series postponed until tomorrow due to the buckets of rain coming down in Chicago.

[Keeper]

Yeah, pretty lame.

[Cocos Disciples]

Shields is dominating the Mets now and so far has outdueled Santana. 2-1 through 7.

 

EDIT: Rain delay now.

[Cocos Disciples]

You know who's really f***ing good? Justin Upton is really f***ing good. And he's only 21.

 

How long before he's the best RF in baseball? Is he already?

[Dipre]

Weaver Vs. Weaver.

 

The s***** Weaver won.

 

The boxscore read:

 

W: J. Weaver

 

L: J. Weaver

 

lulz.