Ortiz not sure if he took steroids

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

An eyewitness account of an incident or crime is not "word of mouth." Maintaining that it is just word of mouth is just foolish.

 

Then what is it? No one's testified anything. Bring them into court, put their hand on a bible, make them testify under oath. Until you do that, its just he said she said now matter how reliable the information/source may be.

 

You have obviously let your anger at another poster (me) and your desire to win an argument with that poster interfere with sound logic.

 

I don't give a s*** about this argument. I've already said that I do believe that Sosa and McGwire did steroids. All I'm showing you is that your constant conjecture remarks on a Red Sox message board are f***ing stupid, when a shitload of the stuff we discuss is what-ifs/rumors/possibilities, and you yourself believe something that has no cold hard proof.

[Dojji]

Then what is it?

 

What it is, is testimony. Testimony doesn't have to be under oath. It just has more force with the law if it is.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

What it is' date=' is testimony. Testimony doesn't have to be under oath. It just has more force with the law if it is.[/quote']

lol

 

 

 

1. Law. the statement or declaration of a witness under oath or affirmation, usually in court.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/testimony

[Dojji]

Which is fine, but we're not using the legal definition here.

[a700hitter]

Then what is it? No one's testified anything. Bring them into court, put their hand on a bible, make them testify under oath. Until you do that, its just he said she said now matter how reliable the information/source may be.

McGwire had the opportunity under oath to dispute the accusation, but he did not. Hmmm. Interesting.

 

Their written statements if untrue are actionable as their writings have damaged the reputation of McGwire and impaired his earning ability. That makes it more than a he said she said. They have exposed themselves legally if these statements are untrue. Their statements were not hearsay or opinion. They didn't hedge their statements in anyway. They flat out stated they they had injected McGwire with steroids. The fact that McGwire's earning ability has been decimated as a result of his connection to steroids, but has not sued these guys speaks volumes.

[a700hitter]

lol

 

 

 

1. Law. the statement or declaration of a witness under oath or affirmation, usually in court.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/testimony

From Websters:

 

Testimony:

 

2 a: firsthand authentication of a fact : evidence b: an outward sign c: a solemn declaration usually made orally by a witness under oath in response to interrogation by a lawyer or authorized public official

 

3 a: an open acknowledgment b: a public profession of religious experience

 

An eyewitness account fits nicely in 2a.

[a700hitter]

I don't give a s*** about this argument. I've already said that I do believe that Sosa and McGwire did steroids. All I'm showing you is that your constant conjecture remarks on a Red Sox message board are f***ing stupid' date=' when a shitload of the stuff we discuss is what-ifs/rumors/possibilities, and you yourself believe something that has no cold hard proof.[/quote']What I believe is not at issue here? It's just not worth discussing a rumor unless there is some reliable evidence to back it up. Hell. on this forum we don't like trade rumors unless there is a link to at least support that it is a rumor. Eyewitness accounts from two people elevates something far beyond the level of a baseless rumor or a suspicion which is what you have about Ortiz. You keep mentioning that there is no "proof" with regard to McGwire. Proof does not require a decision by a court. Proof is "the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact." This is from Websters dictionary. These two first hand accounts are evidence. Is this evidence enough to prove the accusation? That is a debatable point. In Ortiz' case there is no evidence.

[THE ARS]

Precisely' date=' if these statements are untrue, they are without a doubt libelous. McGwire's inaction in light of these damaging statements speaks volumes. Even the inveterate liar, Clemens brought a libel suit against McNamee. McGwire's case must really stink if it is not as strong as Clemens' case.[/quote']

 

Inaction speaks of ...inaction. Nothing more.

 

Maybe he doesn't care what you think.

 

Why do you call Roger Clemens a liar? How are the two related if McGwire does nothing and Clemens takes offense?

 

Do you have any PROOF he is lying?

 

You, Sir, are talking out of your ass. And what you are saying stinks.

 

Legally, anyway.

 

I know these motherf***ers did steroids.

 

But still, you would make a sorry ass attorney.

 

 

 

Tom

[Dojji]

Lucky for us no one needs to prove anything in court.

[THE ARS]

My goodness, 700, more talk.

 

From your ass.

 

- Proof is "the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact." -

 

Tell me what this means.

 

Layman's terms, please.

 

f*** it, just use cogency in a sentence.

 

 

Tom

[THE ARS]

Lucky for us no one needs to prove anything in court.

 

Lucky for us we took a chance on a career minor league goaltender.

 

Start a Bruins thread, man.

 

 

Tom

 

EDIT: I mean this in a good way Dojji.

 

Start a Bruins thread.

[a700hitter]

Inaction speaks of ...inaction. Nothing more.

 

Maybe he doesn't care what you think.

You don't think he cares that his damaged reputation has cost him a lot of money? Inaction in the face of a reduction in income caused by the malicious lies of another would be a normal reaction by McGwire and his lawyer? You are serious? If you marketed a product using McGwire's or any player's name or likeness, you would be slapped with an injunction and a lawsuit so fast that your head would spin, but you think a player of McGwire's stature would just sit back and let his livelihood be destroyed by two liars?

 

Do you have any PROOF he (Clemens) is lying?

There is testimonial evidence from his best friend, Andy Pettitte and a sworn affidavit from Pettitte's wife submitted to Congress. Again, you as others, are misusing the word proof. It is evidence that proves a case. Proof is not a higher level of evidence.

 

You, Sir, are talking out of your ass. And what you are saying stinks.

 

Legally, anyway.

Your understanding of evidence and misuse of the term "proof" demonstrates that you have had no legal training.

[a700hitter]

My goodness, 700, more talk.

 

From your ass.

 

- Proof is "the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact." -

 

Tell me what this means.

 

Layman's terms, please.

 

f*** it, just use cogency in a sentence.

 

 

Tom

I just used it in a sentence.

[THE ARS]

You don't think he cares that his damaged reputation has cost him a lot of money? Inaction in the face of a reduction in income caused by the malicious lies of another would be a normal reaction by McGwire and his lawyer? You are serious? If you marketed a product using McGwire's or any player's name or likeness, you would be slapped with an injunction and a lawsuit so fast that your head would spin, but you think a player of McGwire's stature would just sit back and let his livelihood be destroyed by two liars?

 

There is testimonial evidence from his best friend, Andy Pettitte and a sworn affidavit from Pettitte's wife submitted to Congress. Again, you as others, are misusing the word proof. It is evidence that proves a case. Proof is not a higher level of evidence.

 

Your understanding of evidence and misuse of the term "proof" demonstrates that you have had no legal training.

 

$74,688,354

 

That's how much money he made playing baseball. So, my future public defender friend, I will say it again.

 

Maybe he doesn't care what you think? Maybe that SEVENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS says f*** you 700 and all of your gay f***ing message board friends can kiss his freckled ass.

 

Or not.

 

I have no idea. I don't have Mark McGwire over for dinner.

 

I would.

 

We just don't run in the same circles.

 

As for your "Testimonial Evidentiary" s*** talk, see my post above that you ignored.

 

The post defining what we are talking about. You remember? Under oath? Junky brother grubbing money was legit "eyewitness testimony"

 

You can't forget that this quickly?

 

When you can defend your stance on that we'll talk further.

 

 

 

Tom

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Inaction speaks of ...inaction. Nothing more.

 

Maybe he doesn't care what you think.

 

Why do you call Roger Clemens a liar? How are the two related if McGwire does nothing and Clemens takes offense?

 

Do you have any PROOF he is lying?

 

You, Sir, are talking out of your ass. And what you are saying stinks.

 

Legally, anyway.

 

I know these motherf***ers did steroids.

 

But still, you would make a sorry ass attorney.

 

 

 

Tom

this

[a700hitter]

$74,688,354

 

That's how much money he made playing baseball. So, my future public defender friend, I will say it again.

 

Maybe he doesn't care what you think? Maybe that SEVENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS says f*** you 700 and all of your gay f***ing message board friends can kiss his freckled ass.

Of course, he must be sitting back and thinking "screw those CEO's that don't want me to endorse their products for millions of dollars, because of my damaged reputation. I have enough money for the rest of my life. I don't want to take Canseco and my brother to task for their lies." Of course that must be what he is thinking.

 

As for your "Testimonial Evidentiary" s*** talk, see my post above that you ignored.

 

The post defining what we are talking about. You remember? Under oath? Junky brother grubbing money was legit "eyewitness testimony"

 

You can't forget that this quickly?

I addressed it. You either forgot, didn't notice or understand the response. A first person account of an event is evidence. Of course the evidence can be discredited by lots of factors including the fact that his brother was/is a junky who needs money, but it is admissible evidence nonetheless.

 

When you can defend your stance on that we'll talk further.

Yes, I have may have to take some courses on evidence.

[Fenways Faithful]

wow i cant beleive i just wasted this much time reading this. i dont know if it was the fighting that caught my attention or the fact that all the people talking legal s*** wont budge no matter what. if i showed a picture of mcguire or sosa injecting themselves with steroids you still would say some ******** about it being photoshopped or something stupid like that. for the record. i would not be surprised if ortiz did take steroids at some time or another. the fact that he is my favorite player makes me hope that he hasnt. i wont be ignorant about that chance of it though. but until some reliable sources or facts are shown he is clean in my book. sosa, clemens, a-rod, mcguire did steroids and we all know it. fact or no fact. proof or no proof you know they did. this thread has gone about 8 pages too long. holy s***

[TheKilo]

this thread is only 5 pages n00b

[Dojji]

You mean you've never seen a 5 page thread so full of fail that it should have been stopped 3 pages before it started?

[Fenways Faithful]

well i dont know whats up with my computer cuz im reading this on page 10. but who cares how long you get my point.

[Cocos Disciples]

Page 10 for me. I'm not badass enough to change my posts per page rate.

[CrespoBlows]

Not to completely hi-jack this thread with Dolphins talk, but I don't know... outside of the year I lived in Florida (don't believe my listed location to the left, I'm back in Colorado now-a-days), I don't really come across many Dolphins fans. I'm sure they have tons of fans, more than most teams, but they seem kind of rare. :dunno:

 

... maybe people just don't like wearing aqua and orange.

 

Ocala is about six hours from Miami. You need to go into Miami/Fort Lauderdale area if you want to meet Dolphins fans.

[BoSox21]

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- David Ortiz says players who test positive for steroids should be suspended from baseball for the whole season.

 

The Boston Red Sox designated hitter says the way to clean up the game is through testing and not by taking players to court. Houston Astros shortstop Miguel Tejada pleaded guilty last Wednesday to misleading Congress about performance-enhancing drug use in baseball.

 

Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen suggested the same one-year ban on Sunday.

 

"I feel we have to do something very drastic about this situation," Guillen told the Chicago Tribune.

 

Ortiz also says he feels fine after wrist problems last season limited him to 23 homers. He says he took a few months off from swinging and felt a little strange when he started doing it again. But now he says he feels fine.

 

Ortiz was at Boston's spring training camp Monday, the reporting day for position players. The first full-squad workout is Wednesday.

 

ESPN.com

 

Spoken like a true steroid-user

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Spoken like a true steroid-user

f***tard, I threw out the possibility of him using steroids, given his peculiar career path.

 

 

 

Good try though.

[a700hitter]

f***tard, I threw out the possibility of him using steroids, given his peculiar career path.

 

 

 

Good try though.

Peculiar career path? Part-time player in his early 20's who came into his own in in his late 20's as a full time player and suffered an injury in his early to mid-30's causing a decrease in his performance. Why is that so peculiar?

[BoSox21]

f***tard' date=' I threw out the possibility of him using steroids, given his peculiar career path.[/quote']

 

From your original post

 

Allow me to translate - he juiced.

 

That's throwing out the possibility he juiced? That sounds like you accusing him of juicing. Don't back down now, "f***tard"

[TheKilo]

LOL SARCASM FAIL LOL LOLOLOLOL

[jacksonianmarch]

Ortiz said today that he'd suspend juicers for one yr. But he also said that he doesnt know if he ever juiced. Should he get suspended for half a yr because he might have juiced?

[Cocos Disciples]

...Really?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Ortiz said today that he'd suspend juicers for one yr. But he also said that he doesnt know if he ever juiced. Should he get suspended for half a yr because he might have juiced?

Not until (or if) he actually tests positive.