Sox interested in Adam Dunn?

[CrespoBlows]

I want my 3-4 hitter to drive in runs in those situations. I don't want him to be like Dunn and have his avg. drop 20 points and slugging fall' date=' while he walks more. Sorry, but good 3-4 hitters thrive in those situations and all of their numbers improve. Going from Ortiz to Dunn at DH would be a GIGANTIC mistake.[/quote']

 

What?

 

No, I'm talking about replacing Lowell with Dunn.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I want my 3-4 hitter to drive in runs in those situations. I don't want him to be like Dunn and have his avg. drop 20 points and slugging fall' date=' while he walks more. Sorry, but good 3-4 hitters thrive in those situations and all of their numbers improve. Going from Ortiz to Dunn at DH would be a GIGANTIC mistake.[/quote']

And it makes Ken Rosenthal look right. Can't have that.

[WhiskeyBreath]

What?

 

No, I'm talking about replacing Lowell with Dunn.

 

And I'm just letting the people that want Ortiz to be traded know how dumb it would be.

[Dojji]

Wrong, Adam Dunn is better at 1st base in this given moment.

 

David Ortiz numbers continued to increase and peaked in 2006. His numbers have dropped since. He is also heading into his mid-30s and the injuries are showing up...carbon copy of a baseball player who hit his prime and is in decline (doesn't mean he can't still be effective)....but do you see Ortiz hitting 40+ homers again?

 

*sighhhhhhhhhhh*

 

David Ortiz by OPS+ by season

 

2003: 144

2004: 145

2005: 158

2006: 161

2007: 171

2008: 123 (injury)

 

The guy is 33. That's not exactly Old Man Methuselah. Frank Thomas has a very similar body type and was a productive hitter at age 39.

[example1]

I can't believe this thread has gone so far with such a small piece of speculative theorizing. Oh Nate Gray, we can thank you for that!

 

I'll contribute! Dunn wouldn't be a bad addition. Even if he didn't play much he would be useful for something, if at least keeping him off some other team. It would of course give them options, including the bizarre option of moving Ellsbury to another team, putting Drew and Baldelli in CF, Dunn in LF and Bay in RF. Granted, I don't think they would get far with that plan, but if they were suddenly able to move Ellsbury perhaps they could get something back for him. He's not a superstar, but he's an offensive force with the ability to get on base despite a lot of strikeouts. Could be worse.

[italstallianion]

I guess I'll get sucked into this one. Anyway, I've grown a bit on Dunn as I no longer see him as only a Strikeout/Homerun/Walk machine. He seems like an offensive jumpstart, and seeing as we lost Manny his OPS and instant "just add water" homeruns would be good for our lineup. The problem, therin, lies in the fact that we don't have space for him as we have Ortiz (DH), Youk (1B), Lowell (3B), and Bay(LF) with Drew (RF).

 

Dunn's defense is typically atrocious, so he doesn't match up well in any of the spots unless we were to get rid of Lowell or Ortiz. In my opinion, since Lowell's money is most likely a sunk cost, and Ortiz is the man, I don't see a move for Dunn getting done. Maybe if this were in a few years.

 

In addition, I feel that with teams realizing his "potential" that it would cost way more for Dunn than it would actually be worth. And I'm sure there are many better/cheaper options.

[jacksonianmarch]

*sighhhhhhhhhhh*

 

David Ortiz by OPS+ by season

 

2003: 144

2004: 145

2005: 158

2006: 161

2007: 171

2008: 123 (injury)

 

The guy is 33. That's not exactly Old Man Methuselah. Frank Thomas has a very similar body type and was a productive hitter at age 39.

 

Frank Thomas is a similar case. He's a guy who never lost the power, but the average went into the shitter once his health did. In his age 33 season, he had only 60 or so ABs. And over the next 7 seasons, he was only able to DH for over 500ABs through 3 of them. Before his age 33 season, he only had one yr where his BA was below .300. After the age 33 season, his highest BA was .277 and the majority sat in the .260 range.

 

Listen man, I dont think Ortiz is gonna fall off a cliff here and be a mendoza line hitter with no eye or power. Even in his diminished form last yr his OPS was .876. I just have a high suspicion that he might not get back to the 1.000+ OPS seasons of his prime. Mostly because his wrist looked like problem #1 last yr. I could not believe the ease with which he was handled in the postseason. It used to be anything hard up and in could get by him if he didnt foul it off, but miss and you're dead. Last postseason, though anything hard got by him. His bat was incredibly slow, therefore leading to the conclusion on here that he needed surgery. He didnt. It was structurally sound, just inflamed. Not sure how that will pertain to this yr, but with the knee that will be balky at increasing intervals and a mysterious wrist injury that turned him into a slider speed bat hitter I do not expect to see him putting up vintage numbers.

[Dipre]

Sean Casey' date=' Scott Hatteberg, and Joey Votto all played 1B during Dunn's tenure with the Reds. They both were adequete on defense and offense.[/quote']

 

Fielding Stats:

 

SEASON TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT

2001 Cincinnati Reds OF 63 63 539.0 141 136 3 2 1 --- --- --- 2.32 .986

2002 Cincinnati Reds 1B 44 38 352.0 388 360 22 6 30 --- --- --- 9.77 .985

2002 Cincinnati Reds OF 119 113 987.1 220 201 10 9 2 --- --- --- 1.92 .959

2003 Cincinnati Reds 1B 19 7 84.2 90 81 8 1 10 --- --- --- 9.46 .989

2003 Cincinnati Reds OF 102 100 854.2 223 208 5 10 2 --- --- --- 2.24 .955

2004 Cincinnati Reds 1B 10 9 58.2 80 76 4 0 5 --- --- --- 12.27 1.000

2004 Cincinnati Reds OF 156 146 1327.1 268 250 10 8 1 --- --- --- 1.76 .970

2005 Cincinnati Reds 1B 33 27 251.1 259 244 11 4 31 --- --- --- 9.13 .985

2005 Cincinnati Reds OF 133 126 1090.2 257 246 6 5 0 --- --- --- 2.08 .981

2006 Cincinnati Reds 1B 2 2 17.0 17 15 1 1 2 --- --- --- 8.47 .941

2006 Cincinnati Reds OF 156 156 1321.0 298 279 7 12 1 --- --- --- 1.95 .960

2007 Cincinnati Reds OF 144 142 1189.2 254 244 4 6 0 --- --- --- 1.88 .976

2008 Arizona Diamondbacks 1B 19 14 128.0 133 123 7 3 14 --- --- --- 9.14 .977

2008 Arizona Diamondbacks OF 31 30 247.2 49 48 0 1 0 --- --- --- 1.74 .980

2008 Cincinnati Reds OF 110 110 915.2 203 191 5 7 1 --- --- --- 1.93 .966

Career Totals 1141 1083 9364.2 2880 2702 103 75 100 --- --- --- 2.70 .974

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=276055&statType=1

 

So as you can see they tried him at first multiple times, but they preferred the mighty bat of Scott Hatteberg at 1st base, Dunn's defense wasn't the problem.

[BSN07]

5 pages on Dunn after a spec piece? Wow things seem desperate around here.

 

 

 

Dunn has his pros and cons. Either way I won't be upset if the do or don't sign him.

 

 

 

As far as Ortiz goes, the ones stating his 1B ability :stop: smoking meth. He would last 2 weeks playing the field everyday. As far as his bouncing back. Of course it can happen. But there is also eveidence to the to the opposite happening. This season will do alot to tell which way it's going. And if Theo decides the team will be better of in the long run then so be it.

[diony]

From Tex to Dunn.

 

Wow.

[Paradisecity]

*sighhhhhhhhhhh*

 

David Ortiz by OPS+ by season

 

2003: 144

2004: 145

2005: 158

2006: 161

2007: 171

2008: 123 (injury)

 

The guy is 33. That's not exactly Old Man Methuselah. Frank Thomas has a very similar body type and was a productive hitter at age 39.

 

 

Name me a big man with Ortiz's body type that is successful late in his career and for every one I'll name you 1 that is fallen off.

 

And comparing Frank Thomas' body to David Ortiz is like comparing David Ortiz to Mo Vaughn. The only similariities are that they are large.

 

I'm not saying Ortiz won't be his old self again, I am just saying that there is a distinct possibility given his age, size, and injuries.

[BSN07]

I'd pass on him for now.

 

 

 

I think the theory of them waiting around to see if the economy worsens, and see if any teams are forced to move higher priced guys. They might be able to collect a few surprises just because they can absorb the $.

 

 

I think they can go with what they got now, and see who becomes available later down the road.

[Dojji]

Name me a big man with Ortiz's body type that is successful late in his career and for every one I'll name you 1 that is fallen off.

 

And comparing Frank Thomas' body to David Ortiz is like comparing David Ortiz to Mo Vaughn. The only similariities are that they are large.

 

I'm not saying Ortiz won't be his old self again, I am just saying that there is a distinct possibility given his age, size, and injuries.

 

Oh he's going to fall off at some point all right, it would be insane to suggest Ortiz can only improve, but the point is that he's not that old at age 33 and should have a couple peak years left, health permitting. We don't have a long trend or even a multiple year trend suggesting otherwise, at least not yet, so IMHO it's crazy to start running the guy out of town because he got hurt once.

[Paradisecity]

Oh he's going to fall off at some point all right' date=' it would be insane to suggest Ortiz can only improve, but the point is that he's not that old at age 33 and should have a couple peak years left, health permitting. We don't have a long trend or even a multiple year trend suggesting otherwise, at least not yet, so IMHO it's crazy to start running the guy out of town because he got hurt once.[/quote']

 

I would definitely agree- we shouldnt run him out of town.

 

 

I also think though, that we need to be prepared that we might never get back Ortiz' previous production levels, and we should brace ourselves and be prepared in case he falls off quickly.

 

Does anyone else think that Ortiz is a guy who can be affected mentally? To me, it seems so. I ask because I know he made comments about how we needed to go out and get a big bat and we didn't. I hope that isnt stuck in his head.

[Dojji]

If that's the case then what's really happening is Ortiz is he's failing to believe in his post-Manny teammates and that's a lack of leadership talking. If that's the case than it's time for a new home for Big Papi whether he's healthy or not.

[BSN07]

If that's the case then what's really happening is Ortiz is he's failing to believe in his post-Manny teammates and that's a lack of leadership talking. If that's the case than it's time for a new home for Big Papi whether he's healthy or not.

 

So his physical concerns aren't enough to consider sending him packing. But lack of leadership ability is?:dunno:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If that's the case then what's really happening is Ortiz is he's failing to believe in his post-Manny teammates and that's a lack of leadership talking. If that's the case than it's time for a new home for Big Papi whether he's healthy or not.

I doubt that's the case.

[Dojji]

So his physical concerns aren't enough to consider sending him packing. But lack of leadership ability is?:dunno:

 

No:

 

His physical concerns aren't enough to consider sending him packing but if he doesn't believe in the team, which is what those statements we keep hearing about his lack of faith in a post-Manny lineup signify, it's unlikely that he'll perform at his past level even when healthy and then it *is* time to move him.

 

If the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak I don't mind letting a guy persevere, but let me doubt his spirit and I'm all for him going somewhere else.

 

I doubt that's the case.

 

If Ortiz had not been quoted as saying he thought the lineup needed changing I'd be right there with you but he did so I'm not.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If Ortiz had not been quoted as saying he thought the lineup needed changing I'd be right there with you but he did so I'm not.

 

Doesn't mean that he doesn't believe in these guys and will just quit on them.

[Keeper]

I wouldn't give up on Ortiz just yet. Give him another year. See if he can bounce back.

 

However, he needs to get a grip on himself and stop throwing everyone under the bus just because the great Manny is gone.

[BoSox21]

Considering Ortiz put up 23 HRs and 89 RBIs despite missing close to two months and despite playing with a wonky wrist after he came back, there's really no cause to giving up on him yet.

 

Yea, he doesn't have Manny behind him anymore but it's not as if opposing pitchers are gonna be so eager to put him on first so they can pitch to Youkilis instead

[Dipre]

5 pages on Dunn after a spec piece? Wow things seem desperate around here.

 

 

 

Dunn has his pros and cons. Either way I won't be upset if the do or don't sign him.

 

 

 

As far as Ortiz goes, the ones stating his 1B ability :stop: smoking meth. He would last 2 weeks playing the field everyday. As far as his bouncing back. Of course it can happen. But there is also eveidence to the to the opposite happening. This season will do alot to tell which way it's going. And if Theo decides the team will be better of in the long run then so be it.

 

Read.

 

You need to read before you comment.

 

No one is saying Ortiz should play 1st, the statement was: "Dunn is so bad Ortiz could play a better 1st base".

 

kthxbay.

[BSN07]

Chico Harlan of the Washington Post was told by an agent Monday that believes Adam Dunn "will get a max of $5MM per year."

 

 

Wow that is what I would consider to be "cheap". I think the Sox could find him AB's at DH,1B,COF. I know his glove is suspect. But for 5M a year he be a nice bat to have a round. Of course he would have to except such a role, which is dountful. Unless he gets desperate. 1yr 5M?

[italstallianion]

I agree. The guy is like instant power and HR. Just add water.

 

Unfortunately the same works with strikeouts, but at 5 million I'd say it's worth scooping up before anyone else hits it. Although I doubt Dunn will be signed in the end for that much, and I doubt that only 1 team will be in on him for 5 million/year.

[Redguitar985]

Yeah, $5 million is crazy. He had a low average last season but had 40 homers and 100 RBIs. Sounds like Washington wants him the most right now.

[WhiskeyBreath]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080507&content_id=2655965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

Remember this Riccardi blast on Dunn?

[redsoxrules]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080507&content_id=2655965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

Remember this Riccardi blast on Dunn?

 

Yeah Riccardi is an idiot

 

I cant beleive he still has his job with the Jays

[TheKilo]

Wrong, Adam Dunn is better at 1st base in this given moment.

 

David Ortiz numbers continued to increase and peaked in 2006. His numbers have dropped since. He is also heading into his mid-30s and the injuries are showing up...carbon copy of a baseball player who hit his prime and is in decline (doesn't mean he can't still be effective)....but do you see Ortiz hitting 40+ homers again?

 

Not really true, although I have my concerns about Ortiz's ability to rebound from injury, one could argue 2007 was one of Ortiz's best seasons. Easily top 3.

[TheKilo]

Oh he's going to fall off at some point all right' date=' it would be insane to suggest Ortiz can only improve, but the point is that [b']he's not that old at age 33 and should have a couple peak years left, health permitting[/b]. We don't have a long trend or even a multiple year trend suggesting otherwise, at least not yet, so IMHO it's crazy to start running the guy out of town because he got hurt once.

 

And yet you were the one who wanted to extend Ortiz after 2011 - but you only say he "should" have peak years left?

[Dojji]

Sure, why not? I mean, the guy could die tomorrow of a coronary, he wouldn't have any peak years then. Or there could be a personal tragedy or major off-field distraction or he could just plain "lose his touch." None of these things are likely, but one thing anyone who follows baseball knows is that you better hedge your bets at least a little or the unforseen will bite you in the butt.

 

Barring something unforseen and unreasonable, though, no reason he won't have a couple more great years in him. There are plenty of players built more or less like Ortiz is built who are able to be productive into their late 30's.

 

Oh and, I didn't call for the Sox to sign Ortiz per se, what I said IIRC was that there was no particular reason to believe that the end of this contract was the end of Ortiz in Boston -- and there isn't.

 

Seriously, though, why even play the semantic game over something that small? There was no reason to even attempt to call that out. My statement stands on its own as a reasonable statement -- if I'd spoken in guarantees you would have called on that louder and been more right. So what's the point of this?