Sox ink Saito

[Rdsxmbnt]

The deal was completed after Saito passed his physical on Friday. It includes a guarantee between $1.5 million and $2.5 million, the sources said, and Saito will have the chance to earn more than $7 million if he reaches all of his incentives.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9058832/Red-Sox-sign-free-agent-reliever-Saito-

 

Love it

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I smell a possible trade brewing...Red Sox have a lot of pitchers (although some in ?) so I think this is leading toward a catcher trade

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

That's awesome.

 

 

Papelbon

Okajima

Masterson

Saito

Ramirez

Lopez

Littleton

 

 

 

Health permitting, that is a stacked bullpen. I would guess that Delcarmen is the one leaving through a catcher trade (just a feeling), so that's why I left him off.

[diony]

Does this means Masterson can be traded now? Perhaps for Salty?

[JimEdHOF2009]

best pen in baseball..and it really isn't close.

[riverside sluggers]

Great move for the bullpen

[BSN07]

Nice signing.

 

 

I also agree a trade could be brewing. MDC and Bowden for a Catcher?

[riverside sluggers]

best pen in baseball..and it really isn't close.

 

I dont know about in baseball period, but def at this point they are the best bullpen in the AL East. Expect Jacko's rebuttal on our posts

[Cocos Disciples]

I agree with you guys, this is leading up to a trade.

[BSN07]

I dont know about in baseball period' date=' but def at this point they are the best bullpen in the AL East. [b']Expect Jacko's rebuttal on our posts :lo:l[/b]

 

Oh I do. And the mood he's been in lately, it should be very entertaining:lol:

[BoSox21]

wow, nice deal

[BSN07]

I agree with you guys' date=' this is leading up to a trade.[/quote']

 

One could look at the moves and see the proverbial ducks being lined up in a row.

[Cocos Disciples]

As for Saito, he was insanely good in 2006 and 2007, going 2.07/0.90 and 1.40/0.71, respectively, with a 5.14 K/BB ratio and a 11.68 K/9. In 2008 he started out good until he tore a ligament in his elbow. He didn't have surgery, and when he came back he wasn't as strong. In the ALE I would expect him to be a serviceable setup man.

[a700hitter]

This guy has a partially torn elbow ligament. He opted not to get Tommy John surgery. I don't understand this bargain basement mentality of stockpiling players with serious physical issues. Plus, this guy is old --39 years old.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/report_sox_sign_1.html

[BoSox21]

I don't understand this bargain basement mentality of stockpiling players with serious physical issues.

 

Because the price of relatively healthy mediocre pitchers is 5 years and 83 million

[a700hitter]

Because the price of relatively healthy mediocre pitchers is 5 years and 83 million

Lowe will go for about half of that. As for relievers, KRod went for less than half of that.

[BoSox21]

well, ive been an advocate for signing Lowe in the range of whats been reported.

 

As for K-Rod, theres no reason to spend the money he signed for considering the bullpen we already have

[Cocos Disciples]

Saito posted better numbers in 2006, 2007, and the first half of 2008 than K-Rod.

[a700hitter]

well, ive been an advocate for signing Lowe in the range of whats been reported.

 

As for K-Rod, theres no reason to spend the money he signed for considering the bullpen we already have

I didn't say that we needed KRod. I was just disputing your claim that mediocre pitchers cost 5 yrs. $83 million. The best reliever went for less than half of that.

[a700hitter]

Saito posted better numbers in 2006' date=' 2007, and the first half of 2008 than K-Rod.[/quote']But now he has a partially torn elbow tendon at age 39.

[a700hitter]

So, to recap the Red Sox acquisitions and signings:

 

Ramon Ramirez from KC

Brad Penny-- Injured Shoulder

John Smoltz-- Recuperating from Shoulder surgery (age 41). Will not pitch until June

Saito-- Partially torn elbow tendon (age 39)

Rocco Baldelli -- Mystery Ilness has kept him from playing much the last couple of seasons

Kotsay-- Not much of a hitter

 

The Yankees have added:

 

Sabathia--Cy Young Winner-- age 28

A.J. Burnett- 18 wins 2008 - age 31

Teixeira- Offensive stud and gold glove winner. Age 28

Swisher-- age 27

[riverside sluggers]

Lets look at the Yankees' offseasons since 2001 while youre at it. The championships are won in October, not November-March

[a700hitter]

Lets look at the Yankees' offseasons since 2001 while youre at it. The championships are won in October' date=' not November-March[/quote']Good analysis.:dunno:

[example1]

So, to recap the Red Sox acquisitions and signings:

 

Ramon Ramirez from KC

Brad Penny-- Injured Shoulder

John Smoltz-- Recuperating from Shoulder surgery (age 41). Will not pitch until June

Saito-- Partially torn elbow tendon (age 39)

Rocco Baldelli -- Mystery Ilness has kept him from playing much the last couple of seasons

Kotsay-- Not much of a hitter

 

The Yankees have added:

 

Sabathia--Cy Young Winner-- age 28

A.J. Burnett- 18 wins 2008 - age 31

Teixeira- Offensive stud and gold glove winner. Age 28

Swisher-- age 27

 

The total cost of all of the Sox players is roughly equal to one season of Burnett, right?

I ask again, other than Teixeira, do you think the Sox should have been in on Burnett and Sabathia?

 

I showed in another thread that Burnett is costing more than 3m per marginal win (if his history is any indicator of how he will do). That's not a good deal unless he produces well above his track record.

 

The great thing with these signings is that they disappear after this season (most of them at least) and don't block any good talent.

 

I understand how easy it is to compare what the Yankees have done vs. what the Sox have done, but if the Sox weren't going to get any of those guys aside from Teixeira, then why pine after them or admire them? The Yankees needed those upgrades, the Sox didn't. You might as well add "shiny new stadium" to your list of nice new toys they got over the Sox.

 

Last year the top win-producers for the Red Sox were all internally developed players or international signings:

 

Pedroia--9.8

Youkilis- 8.4

Lester- 7.9

Matsuzaka- 7.8

Ellsbury- 6.4

Papelbon- 6.4

 

Those are 5 guys who are the MAXIMUM producers for this team, 5 of them have pre-FA contracts, one of them (Matsuzaka) generates his own revenue stream by increasing Sox-awareness in Japan and raising the desire for other Japanese players to come to Boston.

 

The Yankees get their wins through expensive talent purchasing. More and more lately the Sox get theirs internally and supplement it with purchased guys. They get to dictate the terms of these players deals, get to control them for the length of many FA contracts, and then get another draft pick if they leave to replenish the system.

 

Don't be shocked if the Sox don't touch Papelbon with a 10-foot pole when he decides to leave the Sox. As good as he is, he IS just a closer and I think the Sox still believe a closer is only as valuable as the leverage he pitches in. That said, if Papelbon were willing to do a reasonable deal I think it makes sense because he is better than just about everyone else out there. I just don't expect that he will see a huge Sox payday as a FA. He may end up in NY.

[riverside sluggers]

I understand how easy it is to compare what the Yankees have done vs. what the Sox have done, but if the Sox weren't going to get any of those guys aside from Teixeira, then why pine after them or admire them? The Yankees needed those upgrades, the Sox didn't. You might as well add "shiny new stadium" to your list of nice new toys they got over the Sox.

 

Yankees 2008 free agents

Jason Giambi, Bobby Abreu, Andy Pettite, Mike Mussina, Carl Pavano, Damaso Marte, Ivan Rodriguez, Richie Sexson

 

Red Sox 2008 free agents

Jason Varitek, Alex Cora, Sean Casey, Mark Kotsay, Curt Schilling, Paul Byrd, Mike Timlin, Bartolo Colon

[Cocos Disciples]

As for the elbow, he did come back in September to pitch a few games (albeit not exceedingly well), and he passed his physical. The workload will be less than it was in LA since he isn't the closer or even the primary setup man. He's probably not going to be active for 162 games, but for 1.5-2.5MM, it's a good signing.

 

Unless we do indeed trade Masterson/MDC, this pushes Littleton out of the bullpen. The pen does seem to be missing a long man, though.

[a700hitter]

The total cost of all of the Sox players is roughly equal to one season of Burnett, right?

I ask again, other than Teixeira, do you think the Sox should have been in on Burnett and Sabathia?

 

I showed in another thread that Burnett is costing more than 3m per marginal win (if his history is any indicator of how he will do). That's not a good deal unless he produces well above his track record.

Combined Penny, Smotlz and Saito will probably not win as many games as Burnett or Sabathia.

 

The great thing with these signings is that they disappear after this season (most of them at least) and don't block any good talent.

If they don't contribute to winning, what was the point of signing them for even one year?

 

I understand how easy it is to compare what the Yankees have done vs. what the Sox have done' date=' but if the Sox weren't going to get any of those guys aside from Teixeira, then why pine after them or admire them?[/quote']That's not the point. Just because I am comparing the Yankees acquisitions to the Red Sox acquisitions doesn't mean that I am pining after the guys they signed. The comparison is whether they improved their team more than the Red Sox improved their team. The two teams had different needs. For instance, if I was comparing the Mets off season to the Red Sox, the Mets filled their biggest need -- a closer. The Red Sox need a reliable starter. IMO, the Mets had a better off season. That doesn't mean that I wanted KRod. We don't need a closer. They improved their team more than we did.

The Yankees needed those upgrades' date=' the Sox didn't. You might as well add "shiny new stadium" to your list of nice new toys they got over the Sox.[/quote']Snottiness is always good in a discussion.

 

Last year the top win-producers for the Red Sox were all internally developed players or international signings:

 

Pedroia--9.8

Youkilis- 8.4

Lester- 7.9

Matsuzaka- 7.8

Ellsbury- 6.4

Papelbon- 6.4

 

Those are 5 guys who are the MAXIMUM producers for this team, 5 of them have pre-FA contracts, one of them (Matsuzaka) generates his own revenue stream by increasing Sox-awareness in Japan and raising the desire for other Japanese players to come to Boston.

IMO cost/win stats are very unreliable, and if you have the lowest cost/win stat what's the point if you have less wins than your competition?

 

Don't be shocked if the Sox don't touch Papelbon with a 10-foot pole when he decides to leave the Sox. As good as he is' date=' he IS just a closer and I think the Sox still believe a closer is only as valuable as the leverage he pitches in. That said, if Papelbon were willing to do a reasonable deal I think it makes sense because he is better than just about everyone else out there. I just don't expect that he will see a huge Sox payday as a FA. He may end up in NY.[/quote']I have seen some great Red Sox teams that were decimated by the fact that they didn't have a good closer. The teams in the 1970's were a prime example. I think the 1976 team lost something like 30 or so games in the 8th or 9th inning. I have never seen a closer like Papelbon in a Red Sox uniform in more than 40 years. If his health holds up, they should make him the highest paid closer. He's worth it.

[Cocos Disciples]

700, while I don't think a closer is as vital as you, seeing Papelbon in a NY jersey would sting. I want to keep him.

[a700hitter]

700' date=' while I don't think a closer is as vital as you, seeing Papelbon in a NY jersey would sting. I want to keep him.[/quote']I think the biggest contributor to the Yankee string of playoff appearances was Mo Rivera. He has been so amazingly consistent. When he is done, the yankees will no longer perform at a consistently high level from year to year. As for the importance of a closer, had it not been for the resurrection of Brad Lidge as a dominant closer, the Phillies would not even have beaten the Mets never mind win the championship. He didn't have a single blown save for the entire season. An average closer would have blown more than 5 games. They won the division by 3 games.

[BSN07]

The Yankees have spent 400M+ this offseason. the Sox have spent under 20M. TB even less then that. And the Division could go to any of the 3.