Sox still pursuing Tek

[a700hitter]

Any actual stats or facts to back that up?

The first fact is that the Padres gave up on a 23 yr old catcher for 1 month of a 42 year old fat David Wells. That should tell you the high regard in which he was held. His minor league stats are comparable to Tek's at the same age, but it took Tek until age 27 to develop as a major leaguer, and he was a huge prospect from Georgia Tech. Kottaras is not ready to take the reins in 2009. He should be Tek's caddie in 2009.

 

 

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=7902

[Dipre]

The first fact is that the Padres gave up on a 23 yr old catcher for 1 month of a 42 year old fat David Wells. That should tell you the high regard in which he was held. His minor league stats are comparable to Tek's at the same age, but it took Tek until age 27 to develop as a major leaguer, and he was a huge prospect from Georgia Tech. Kottaras is not ready to take the reins in 2009. He should be Tek's caddie in 2009.

 

 

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=7902

 

All his MiLB stats tell me is that he sure as hell should hit at least as well as Tek did last year at the ML level, so i fail to see your logic at least from an offensive standpoint.

[diony]

Any actual stats or facts to back that up?

 

Just a hint. He has been in AAA since 2006.

[diony]

All his MiLB stats tell me is that he sure as hell should hit at least as well as Tek did last year at the ML level' date=' so i fail to see your logic at least from an offensive standpoint.[/quote']

 

WOW!

[a700hitter]

All his MiLB stats tell me is that he sure as hell should hit at least as well as Tek did last year at the ML level' date=' so i fail to see your logic at least from an offensive standpoint.[/quote']As I said, even Tek was not able to step into the majors as an effective starter. It took him a full year as Hatteberg's understudy for him to be ready as the full time catcher. Tek was a far more highly touted prospect than Kottaras. Kottaras is not ready to be the primary catcher in 2009.

[Dipre]

WOW!

 

Oh hi........

 

Weren't you the one talking s*** 'cause Theo offered Tek $5 mill, when seemingly the same production could be had from a $300k rookie?

 

Make up your mind, you f***ing tool.

 

Oh right, i forgot, you talk out of your ass, as usual.............

[diony]

Oh hi........

 

Weren't you the one talking s*** 'cause Theo offered Tek $5 mill, when seemingly the same production could be had from a $300k rookie?

 

Make up your mind, you f***ing tool.

 

Oh right, i forgot, you talk out of your ass, as usual.............

 

No, I talked s*** because Theo offered $5 million to a player like Tek on this market. He doesn't deserves it.

 

300k rookie? Who? The Sox don't have a MLB-ready catcher that can fully replace Tek. Brown and Kottaras are full of question marks.

 

What the hell is this "......................."?

[Dipre]

No, I talked s*** because Theo offered $5 million to a player like Tek on this market. He doesn't deserves it.

 

300k rookie? Who? The Sox don't have a MLB-ready catcher that can fully replace Tek. Brown and Kottaras are full of question marks.

 

What the hell is this "......................."?

 

You need to google the finer points of grammar, my friend.

 

WOW, we didn't know dey had da question marks!!!!111!!! lololol

 

Again, the question was, does he have NO talent?

 

You just stormed in without reading and made a stupid statement (the diony special), we know he and Brown are question marks.

 

But from offense and defense, can they replicate Tek's 2008 season?

 

You bet your ass they can......

 

Does Tek have intangibles that make him invaluable to the staff? Yes, he does, but that doesn't mean that if he were not to re-sign the C position would be as big a black hole as you make it to be.

 

Then again, you are a homer of the worst kind.

[Dojji]

No, because he has no talent.

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/kottaras-george.htm

 

Offensive-minded catcher with 20-25 home run power potential and good plate discipline

 

a very hard worker and takes to developmental coaching well, and as such his skills have improved during his time in the Sox system.

 

His game calling ability has certainly improved, as the PawSox staff has grown very comfortable with Kottaras behind the dish.

 

Good at blocking balls in the dirt, and gets to bunts and fly balls well. Has extended experience catching knuckleballers.

 

His "poor defensive reputation" amounts to a concerns over his average throwing arm -- much like Varitek's or Hatteberg's -- heck, we don't miss what we've never had when it comes to throwing arms. And even there, his arm is considered strong with the problem being his pop time. And reading between the lines of that Soxprospects report we see a guy who might be nearly as hard a worker and as coachable as Varitek was at first and that counts a ton on my book.

 

Besides that Kottaras has been developing an offensive reputation in AAA as a clutch hitter. If you believe in clutch (I'm on the fence) that might count for something.

 

Out of the guys we have I would have little problem with letting Kottaras be the guy who got intensive mentorship from Tek. Combine power, discipline, good recieving skills, and a useful platoon skillset for right now, and I think we could do a lot worse.

 

BTW anyone notice Kottaras' line in winter ball? 0.308/0.419 /0.462 / 0.881

[WhiskeyBreath]

I do have a mancrush of sorts on Max Ramirez.

 

He has DH/1B written all over him. Even more so than Salty.

 

I think a Salty trade would already have been made by now if the Sox were convinced he could be a catcher in the long term.

[example1]

I don't understand how a700hitter is suddenly knowledgable about Kottaras despite not paying attention to minor league players. He had 22 HRs against AAA pitching last year and an OPS above .800. He's not the second coming of Yogi Berra (or even Jason Varitek), but he's not terrible. It's not 22 HRs against little leaguers, or even AA pitching. It isn't against the Yankees, either, but to dismiss it completely seems shortsighted.

 

Why was he in AAA for so long? Maybe because he's in arguably the best system (combined MiLB and MLB ) in baseball? Or because the Sox have had two very specific catchers for the past few years, one of them hand selected to catch Wakefield, the other the captain of their team. Was there a chance for Kottaras to jump in there? Some open spot I didn't know about? No, I don't think so.

 

My point, again, isn't that Kottaras is a great player. He probably isn't. But to say he's terrible and that he isn't ready to start in the majors when you admittedly don't follow prospects seems pretty strange to me. Because Tek wasn't MLB ready until 27, Kottaras won't be ready yet? huh?

 

Bard and Kottaras would be okay, they wouldn't be ideal but they are servicable. I think the best option would be to resign Tek to something reasonable, but if he's stubbornly demanding too much then I don't blame the Sox for going in another direction.

[a700hitter]

I don't understand how a700hitter is suddenly knowledgeable about Kottaras despite not paying attention to minor league players. He had 22 HRs against AAA pitching last year and an OPS above .800. He's not the second coming of Yogi Berra (or even Jason Varitek), but he's not terrible. It's not 22 HRs against little leaguers, or even AA pitching. It isn't against the Yankees, either, but to dismiss it completely seems shortsighted.

 

Why was he in AAA for so long? Maybe because he's in arguably the best system (combined MiLB and MLB ) in baseball? Or because the Sox have had two very specific catchers for the past few years, one of them hand selected to catch Wakefield, the other the captain of their team. Was there a chance for Kottaras to jump in there? Some open spot I didn't know about? No, I don't think so.

 

My point, again, isn't that Kottaras is a great player. He probably isn't. But to say he's terrible and that he isn't ready to start in the majors when you admittedly don't follow prospects seems pretty strange to me. Because Tek wasn't MLB ready until 27, Kottaras won't be ready yet? huh?

 

Bard and Kottaras would be okay, they wouldn't be ideal but they are servicable. I think the best option would be to resign Tek to something reasonable, but if he's stubbornly demanding too much then I don't blame the Sox for going in another direction.

One thing about you Example is that you are consistent. You always get it wrong. I never said that I don't know the prospects or that I don't follow them. I just don't get excited about them until they hit the majors. Remember the whole debate where i told you that I don't get excited or emotional about guys that I haven't seen play. I do read the scouting reports and look at stats, and I have seen this guy in Spring games. IMO Bard and Kottaras are not okay for 2009. Neither one is ready to be the primary guy in 2009. When Tek came up, he caddied for Hatteburg for 1 year before he took the reins. Hatteburg was better than Kottaras or Bard. Nice try example, but as usual, you never get it right when it come to understanding the posts of other members.

[CrespoBlows]

Stop using soxprospects as a source. They constantly overhype every Red Sox prospect, and delete any negative discussions about prospects they hold in high regard. The logic I was given was, "You might hurt the player's feelings."

 

Instant loss of credibility.

 

Plus jsinger posts there. Who wants to take anything jsinger says at face value?

[26 to 6]

Plus jsinger posts there. Who wants to take anything jsinger says at face value?

Hahaha very true

[RedSoxRooter]

Ok, I'm not going to read all 13 pages, so sorry if this has been brought up already.

 

But this has to end. I'm so damn tired of reading about it. Take the offer Tek.

 

The Sox did everything right on this one. They offered a lot in arbitration and likely would have added another year if Tek had taken it in some sort of deal to avoid arb. The fact that no team seams to want to part with a draft pick is just the result of awesome knowledge of the situation by Boston. And to top it off, they still offered more than anyone else would surely offer for the guy right now. Tek is f***ed - and sitting it out till June wont fix anything because even if the pick is removed from the situation, who else would offer him 5 mill for half a season? Sox own Boras and Tek on this one unless some team comes in and makes like the worst offer in history just to f*** the Sox.... Even the Yanks... well.. nah. Tek is f***ed and his good will is almost gone, so he'll be back, like it or not but on the (almost) cheap.

 

I'm fine with it from a pitching standpoind, but they do need to still add a bat to the bottom of the lineup if nobody is to protect Oritz.

[SCM33]

I dont understand how .243 at AAA (Kottaras) translated in to what Varitek did this year.

 

His career at AAA has been awesome. Averages of .243, .241, .210.

 

If he cant hit AAA, how do you expect to him to maintain his OB% at a higher level with better, more accurate pitchers with better stuff? Add in the fact hes not good enough defensively to make up for his s***** offensive production...then what value does he have?

 

Perfect example......Sal Fasano. Career .256 hitter in the minors. Hit HR totals of 32,25,22,21,20 in the minors. A real slugging minor league catcher with a good defensive reputation.

 

What did he ever do?

 

If peoples answer to the catching situation is Dusty Brown, or George Kottaras.......then find another answer.

[CrespoBlows]

I dont understand how .243 at AAA (Kottaras) translated in to what Varitek did this year.

 

His career at AAA has been awesome. Averages of .243, .241, .210.

 

If he cant hit AAA, how do you expect to him to maintain his OB% at a higher level with better, more accurate pitchers with better stuff? Add in the fact hes not good enough defensively to make up for his s***** offensive production...then what value does he have?

 

Perfect example......Sal Fasano. Career .256 hitter in the minors. Hit HR totals of 32,25,22,21,20 in the minors. A real slugging minor league catcher with a good defensive reputation.

 

What did he ever do?

 

If peoples answer to the catching situation is Dusty Brown, or George Kottaras.......then find another answer.

 

You have to remember how awful Jason Varitek was.

 

I really don't understand how some of you are saying that Kottaras will best Varitek's production in 2009, therefore we should give him an opportunity. Using Jason Varitek as a benchmark is shooting awfully low.

[italstallianion]

Stop using soxprospects as a source. They constantly overhype every Red Sox prospect, and delete any negative discussions about prospects they hold in high regard. The logic I was given was, "You might hurt the player's feelings."

 

Instant loss of credibility.

 

Plus jsinger posts there. Who wants to take anything jsinger says at face value?

 

 

LOL. Let's just say that I have a little bit of history there....

[diony]

But from offense and defense, can they replicate Tek's 2008 season?

 

You bet your ass they can......

 

.220/.313/.359

 

Oh wow, I love .672 OPS Catchers

 

Tek is a better defensive catcher than Kottaras, right now.

 

If he replicates those numbers, he'll be first in line to be DFA'd when the Sox sign a FA next offseason.

 

In 70 games last season Kottaras threw out around 19% of baserunners, or 15 of 80 and had 10 passed balls. Catching Wakefield? Win :thumbsup:

[Dojji]

Who are the Sox gonna sign next season? Every interesting catcher is signed through 2011.

[Dojji]

Stop using soxprospects as a source. They constantly overhype every Red Sox prospect, and delete any negative discussions about prospects they hold in high regard. The logic I was given was, "You might hurt the player's feelings."

 

Instant loss of credibility.

 

Plus jsinger posts there. Who wants to take anything jsinger says at face value?

 

 

Believe me I know all about Soxprospects having been BANNED there mostly because I talked up prospects considered yesterday's news, dared to talk about unconventional possibilities and praised slagheap players I liked (two of those players, I might add, went on to play supporting roles in the 2007 World Series run) and because I "posted too much." I'll admit I was a bit of an idiot towards the end, but when you feel like everyone's ganging up on you you do irrational things.

 

Anyhow though, they got Pedroia right, got Lowrie right, got Youkilis right, got Papelbon right, got Delcarmen right. They overhyped Ellsbury and Buchholz a bit but those two have time to prove Soxprospects right as well. Their track record is pretty good all things considered.

 

As for JSinger I dislike him intensely as a person but there's little denying that he generally knows what he's talking about and even when he's wrong he takes a stance backed up by a reasonable interpretation of the facts at the time.

[Dojji]

I dont understand how .243 at AAA (Kottaras) translated in to what Varitek did this year.

 

His career at AAA has been awesome. Averages of .243, .241, .210.

 

Batting average is a dead stat, Chief.

[italstallianion]

Believe me I know all about Soxprospects having been BANNED there mostly because I talked up prospects considered yesterday's news, dared to talk about unconventional possibilities and praised slagheap players I liked (two of those players, I might add, went on to play supporting roles in the 2007 World Series run) and because I "posted too much." I'll admit I was a bit of an idiot towards the end, but when you feel like everyone's ganging up on you you do irrational things.

 

Anyhow though, they got Pedroia right, got Lowrie right, got Youkilis right, got Papelbon right, got Delcarmen right. They overhyped Ellsbury and Buchholz a bit but those two have time to prove Soxprospects right as well. Their track record is pretty good all things considered.

 

As for JSinger I dislike him intensely as a person but there's little denying that he generally knows what he's talking about and even when he's wrong he takes a stance backed up by a reasonable interpretation of the facts at the time.

 

 

 

I got banned for a slightly different reason...haha. Oddly enough, jsinger was one of the only mods I had absolutely nothing against. Doesn't jsinger have an account here?

[riverside sluggers]

He does, but he left because of people not agreeing with his opinions... sorry i mean facts haha

[italstallianion]

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a triangle war between soxprospects.com, talksox.com, and sonsofsamhorn.net. I don't know much about the last one but there seems to be a fair amount of hatred amongst the three.

[TheKilo]

You asked me to give you my rationale for valuing Varitek more than Farrell. I never stated that no other catcher could get the same production from the pitching staff. I just don't think there are any such catchers in the organization who are ready to take the helm in 2009.

 

Fair point. What about Varitek's 2008 makes you so convinced that Bard/Kottaras/Brown can't replicate it, given the advances in technology for scouting and pitch calling?

 

 

First of all, I am not aware of any offer from the Sox of $10 million guaranteed for 2009.

 

The Sox offered arb, and no type A FA who has ever been offered arbitration has had to take a pay cut. More than likely, an arbitrator would have given Varitek a slight increase in salary.

 

Second, if they already offered him $10 million guaranteed, why wouldn't they be willing to offer him $5 million guaranteed with contingencies that would allow him to earn $10 million. Your argument makes no sense. Let me get this straight. According to you, they offered him $10 million guaranteed and he turned it down. Now, they offer $5 million take it or leave it. I suggest that they close the deal by offering attainable incentives that will let him get back to $10 million and your response is: "Why would they do that when Varitek already rejected $10+ million guaranteed?" The logic of your statement escapes me. Are you saying that they wouldn't have a better chance offering him $5 million guaranteed with incentives bringing it to $10 million than just offering a guaranteed $5 million? I don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

The point is they offered him A RAISE coming off his terrible 2008 and he declined it, so why should they offer the same potential salary if there isn't even a market for his services? Doesn't make sense at all - it's simple supply and demand. The Sox don't NEED a catcher right now and there is no demand for Varitek's services. WHy should the Sox outbid themselves for a guy coming off the season he had?

 

Take the Varitek blinders off and you'll see why my argument makes perfect sense.

[italstallianion]

Fair point. What about Varitek's 2008 makes you so convinced that Bard/Kottaras/Brown can't replicate it, given the advances in technology for scouting and pitch calling?

 

 

 

 

The Sox offered arb, and no type A FA who has ever been offered arbitration has had to take a pay cut. More than likely, an arbitrator would have given Varitek a slight increase in salary.

 

 

 

The point is they offered him A RAISE coming off his terrible 2008 and he declined it, so why should they offer the same potential salary if there isn't even a market for his services? Doesn't make sense at all - it's simple supply and demand. The Sox don't NEED a catcher right now and there is no demand for Varitek's services. WHy should the Sox outbid themselves for a guy coming off the season he had?

 

Take the Varitek blinders off and you'll see why my argument makes perfect sense.

 

 

 

I don't think that's true. The Sox pretty sorely need a catcher. Maybe after we trade and get a young catcher you can say that we don't need one, but right now we need one pretty badly.

[TheKilo]

They have three right now.

[italstallianion]

They have three right now.

 

 

The problem is that you can't mash them together to make 1 above average catcher. You'd have to use 3 roster spots for them all. In other words I'm saying that 3 decent/ok catchers isn't any better than 2 decent/ok catchers. We need a catcher that's more than just "blah", or else we'll have a black hole in our lineup (not named Lugo) and some potential pitching problems throughout the season. (in terms of gamecalling)

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5506&position=C

Bill James' prediction for George Kottaras

 

80 games

54 for 223 (.242 avg) 15 Doubles, 9 HRs, 32 RBIs, 31 Runs, 31 Walks, 58 Ks