Sox still pursuing Tek

[riverside sluggers]

... and they will be stuck with three unaccomplished talentless bums to handle the catching chores in '09. Genius....?

 

Link to a news source that says a trade for a young catcher cant happen before the season starts?

[TheKilo]

... and they will be stuck with three unaccomplished talentless bums to handle the catching chores in '09. Genius....?

 

I'm fairly confident that Josh Bard and George Kottaras will outperform Jason Varitek offensively this season.

 

What would you offer Varitek in the light of no other public offers? They offered 1/10+, and now 2/8 or 2/10. He's been ripping this team off since 2006 with that 4/40 deal he signed after 2004. You can't possibly tell me you want to overpay for him a second time, although 2/8 or 2/10 seems like an overpay to me at this point.

[BSN07]

I'm fairly confident that Josh Bard and George Kottaras will outperform Jason Varitek offensively this season.

 

What would you offer Varitek in the light of no other public offers? They offered 1/10+, and now 2/8 or 2/10. He's been ripping this team off since 2006 with that 4/40 deal he signed after 2004. You can't possibly tell me you want to overpay for him a second time.

 

I agree. As far as game calling, they can have the pitch called from the bench if need be.

[diony]

I'm fairly confident that Josh Bard and George Kottaras will outperform Jason Varitek offensively this season.

 

Well, it wouldn't be so hard for them.

[Paradisecity]

They should pay Tek 5 million dollars to sit in the first row behind home and call the game, so that somebody else can actually do the playing part.

[a700hitter]

I'm fairly confident that Josh Bard and George Kottaras will outperform Jason Varitek offensively this season.

Neither of those guys are good catchers.

 

What would you offer Varitek in the light of no other public offers? They offered 1/10+' date=' and now 2/8 or 2/10. He's been ripping this team off since 2006 with that 4/40 deal he signed after 2004. You can't possibly tell me you want to overpay for him a second time, although 2/8 or 2/10 seems like an overpay to me at this point.[/quote']If he signs with another team, that will mean that he has received another offer.

[TheKilo]

Neither of those guys are good catchers.

 

Neither is Jason Varitek.

 

 

If he signs with another team, that will mean that he has received another offer.

 

Gee thanks.

 

Now answer my question.

[a700hitter]

Neither is Jason Varitek.

Varitek is not good at throwing out base runners, but he is a good receiver and game-caller.

 

Gee thanks.

 

Now answer my question.

Your question was premised on there being no other offers. My response is that if he signs elsewhere there had to be at least one other offer. It's only a genius offer if he accepts the Sox offer.

[Dojji]

Don't forget Dusty Brown. He seems to be an afterthought but that's really kinda unfair to Brown. By all accounts he's a fine catcher and he's got a rifle on his shoulder and he hit better than Kottaras. And he, also, can handle the knuckleball.

[italstallianion]

Yeah but I think he hits on the same side as Varitek's "good" side, so they want a lefty. I'm not challenging what you bring up, but that's just a disadvantage for Brown.

[TheKilo]

Varitek is not good at throwing out base runners' date=' but he is a good receiver and game-caller.[/quote']

 

Who is more critical to the pitching staff, John Farrell or Varitek?

 

Your question was premised on there being no other offers. My response is that if he signs elsewhere there had to be at least one other offer. It's only a genius offer if he accepts the Sox offer.

 

What would you offer Varitek, then?

[a700hitter]

Who is more critical to the pitching staff' date=' John Farrell or Varitek?[/quote']IMO, Varitek.

 

What would you offer Varitek' date=' then?[/quote']I would offer him the same base with better incentives that would allow him to get to $10 million in 2009, and if he gets another offer, I would match the other offer.

[Dipre]

IMO, Varitek.

 

I would offer him the same base with better incentives that would allow him to get to $10 million in 2009, and if he gets another offer, I would match the other offer.

 

You're not serious, are you?

 

And if you are, care to explain yourself?

[a700hitter]

You're not serious, are you?

 

And if you are, care to explain yourself?

I don't have a very high opinion of pitching coaches. I have had dinner with Tom Seaver a few times, and one time I asked him about the way all the 60's Met pitchers relied on their legs-- him, Koosman and Ryan. I asked him if the organization stressed and taught the "drop and drive" delivery. He told me that the coaches didn't teach them anything, and that they learned from each other.

[TheKilo]

IMO' date=' Varitek.[/quote']

 

So you believe no other catcher can get the production out of this pitching staff that Jason Varitek can.

 

I find that hard to believe, but am willing to listen. State your case.

 

I would offer him the same base with better incentives that would allow him to get to $10 million in 2009, and if he gets another offer, I would match the other offer.

 

Why would they do that when Varitek already rejected $10+ million guaranteed?

[a700hitter]

So you believe no other catcher can get the production out of this pitching staff that Jason Varitek can.

 

I find that hard to believe, but am willing to listen. State your case.

You asked me to give you my rationale for valuing Varitek more than Farrell. I never stated that no other catcher could get the same production from the pitching staff. I just don't think there are any such catchers in the organization who are ready to take the helm in 2009.

Why would they do that when Varitek already rejected $10+ million guaranteed?

First of all, I am not aware of any offer from the Sox of $10 million guaranteed for 2009. Second, if they already offered him $10 million guaranteed, why wouldn't they be willing to offer him $5 million guaranteed with contingencies that would allow him to earn $10 million. Your argument makes no sense. Let me get this straight. According to you, they offered him $10 million guaranteed and he turned it down. Now, they offer $5 million take it or leave it. I suggest that they close the deal by offering attainable incentives that will let him get back to $10 million and your response is: "Why would they do that when Varitek already rejected $10+ million guaranteed?" The logic of your statement escapes me. Are you saying that they wouldn't have a better chance offering him $5 million guaranteed with incentives bringing it to $10 million than just offering a guaranteed $5 million? I don't know what point you are trying to make.

[Dojji]

The 10 mil guaranteed offer Tek "refused" was the offer of arbitration, since arbitration practically never assigns a pay cut.

[Cocos Disciples]

When we sign Tek, is Kottaras or Bard the backup? Kottaras would fit into the role better, IMO.

[diony]

Arbitration money is not guaranteed, they can cut him on ST.

[italstallianion]

Arbitration money is not guaranteed' date=' they can cut him on ST.[/quote']

 

 

How much of the money would typically be guaranteed through arbitration???

[diony]

How much of the money would typically be guaranteed through arbitration???

 

There's a portion of the salary, I don't remember how much.

[Cocos Disciples]

You mean Bard? Cool, I would cut him if we sign Tek.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Theo's public comments 2 weeks ago were that the plan was to re-sign Tek AND trade for a young catcher. Every indication was that he meant doing both, and sooner rather than later. Seems like the inevitable Tek signing is a pre-cursor to a Bard for Montero/ or Bowden or Buchholz for Salty or Tegarden. Should be interesting. Looking at Tegarden's minor league numbers, he sure strikes out alot.(app. 40%) This high K rate transferred over to his major league AB's in 2008..albeit a very small sample size. I would be happy with either Salty or Teagarden. Salty's power potential, age, and switch-hitting ability seem to give him the edge in upside. If the deal is Salty for Bowden OR Buchholz for Teagarden I would go with Salty.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I do have a mancrush of sorts on Max Ramirez.

[26 to 6]

IMO, Varitek.

 

I would offer him the same base with better incentives that would allow him to get to $10 million in 2009, and if he gets another offer, I would match the other offer.

You make me laugh. And you call me a fanboy and even had the nerve to say I hold Torre on a pedestal, look at you and your Varitek man-crush.

 

I don't have a very high opinion of pitching coaches. I have had dinner with Tom Seaver a few times, and one time I asked him about the way all the 60's Met pitchers relied on their legs-- him, Koosman and Ryan. I asked him if the organization stressed and taught the "drop and drive" delivery. He told me that the coaches didn't teach them anything, and that they learned from each other.

That was a different era. Pitching was a lot different back then. Today organizations and pitching coaches mold their pitchers into what they feel they should be.

[JimEdHOF2009]

You make me laugh. And you call me a fanboy and even had the nerve to say I hold Torre on a pedestal, look at you and your Varitek man-crush.

 

 

That was a different era. Pitching was a lot different back then. Today organizations and pitching coaches mold their pitchers into what they feel they should be.

 

$10 mill? I have to agree with 26:6. Tek should be thanking his lucky stars he is being offerred $10 mill-plus for 2 years. He has virtually no leverage with any other team other than Boston. Most of his leverage stems from his familiarity with the staff and the fact that the Sox really don't have another viable, experienced STARTING catcher on their roster. Theo made Tek a very good offer..there is no doubt he will take it and run. Truth be told..all Tek really deserved after his pathetic offensive display last year was a $2-3 mill deal with incentives to push it to 5 or 6. For him to get $5 mill and another year was a gift from Theo based on loyalty and need.

[a700hitter]

You make me laugh. And you call me a fanboy and even had the nerve to say I hold Torre on a pedestal' date=' look at you and your Varitek man-crush.[/quote']Varitek has me muttering to myself whenever he has a bat in his hands, but Kottaras and Bard are not a viable alternative. Kottaras stinks. He's a terrible catcher. I was asked what i would offer Tek. I'd sweeten the pot by giving him incentives. That should make it more likely that he will sign, and if he performs well enough to trigger the incentives, that is good for the team.

 

 

That was a different era. Pitching was a lot different back then. Today organizations and pitching coaches mold their pitchers into what they feel they should be.

How well did Leo Mazzone do with the Oriloles staff? Their worth is greatly inflated. Where is Joe Kerrigan? He was another highly proclaimed pitching coach.

[Dojji]

Kottaras stinks. He's a terrible catcher.

 

Because he's been given any kind of chance to prove what kind of catcher he is.

[a700hitter]

Because he's been given any kind of chance to prove what kind of catcher he is.

No, because he has no talent.

[Dipre]

No, because he has no talent.

 

Any actual stats or facts to back that up?